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We think Trump and his supporters are crazy but this is normal in most of the world

Oh, but he's so "well educated".

The people I work with are. They all think Trump is a joke. Even the CEO who his head of one of the world's largest investment banks sent an email that pretty much denounced Trump. He said he was an immigrant and we are a country of immigrants. That says it all.

Trump lost educated people by a shocking amount. We don't talk about politics at work but Trump is openly mocked.
 
Leaving aside the anti-Trump BS, corruption is a way of life for most of the world, even in most of Europe. Enduring refusal to tolerate corruption is more or less unique to Northwestern Europeans. During the early years of the last century, we had a serious problem with organized crime in this country, mainly due to Italian immigration. But we closed the borders in 24, and still had the moral strength to assimilate the Italians and impose our values on them. Today, we are being overrun by people far more unlike us than Italians, and we have neither the immigration controls nor the moral fiber to impose Anglo-Saxon values on them. So we had all better get used to corruption, because it will only get worse here on out.

Wow, OK. Glad you imposed your values on them Italians. You need to get to work on the Blacks and Latinos now.

I have an alternative explanation. Italian, Irish and Jewish immigrants were just poor. Poor people are more likely to get involved in crime. As their economic situation improved, crime dropped. And ending prohibition did a lot to reduce crime and the strength of organized crime.

Now if only we could just repeal drug prohibition to reduce crime in Black and Latino neighborhoods.
 
I just don't really know how to respond to the OP. But I will give it a try.

Corruption is corruption. There is always some of it around. When we have IMO truly erred in putting Trumpkin in the WH is that in Trumpkin we have a man that does not have a single drop of the public servant's blood in him. As such the common good which within limits is the first order of business for the Federal Government gets literally no attention whatsoever.

Trumpkin is totally transactional and a totally transactional agent will always, 100% of the time be totally transactional for himself. Anything anybody else gets depends on their ability to support the transactional agent's ability to get his and as a consequence they will get theirs. While we often comment that Trumpkin runs whatever he is in, business or government like a crime family, the money end of his dealings work the same way as in a crime family as well. Everybody kicks upstairs to the bosses and all the bosses kick upstairs to the boss of bosses. The only difference is that in the political arena, sometimes it is currency as in money that gets kicked upstairs and sometimes it political currency that gets kicked upstairs.

So Hillary makes a good comparison for this argument as she was massively unpopular for a variety of reasons. However, she IS a public servant. Whenever considering someone for federal office, if you value the transactional agent over the public servant in the end even if you think you are winning, you will LOSE because you will always be fighting an uphill battle against the transactional agent's insistence on being transactional for his own account and he is the boss. YOU are not supposed to win that battle no matter who you are. Never mind the corruption end of it for corruption sake. Who will the person you are considering to put into federal government office, be working for, the people or him or herself.

So all things considered, all arguments considered, all points of view considered, Hillary would have been a better President than Trumpkin could ever hope to be for the simple reason that the first order of business for Federal Government is the common good. That is why the National Defense and the National Security is the very first obligation of Federal Government. If you have a brain, you should always pick a public servant over a transactional agent for federal government office because the public servant at least fits the role. He is not a square peg you are trying to ram into a round hole.

All these arguments we end up having about corruption end up being whataboutism and this one did that corruptly and that one did this corruptly. Generally they are partisan false equivalencies. There is simply no possible way that Hillary would not have been a better President than Trumpkin. She might have been every bit as corrupt as Trumpkin potentially but still would have been a better President as she would as unfailingly remember her commitment to common good just as unfailingly as Trumpkin remembers his commitment to his own good, or his own account.

Just look at how bad Trumpkin's clown show has gotten in a mere 2.5 years. He has stove-piped the WH so completely with none of the bosses even talking to each other that idiot Mick Mulvaney ends up taking the podium of the WH briefing room having no earthly idea how destructive to the case of his own President what he is about to say is going to be to his own President. Stove-piping his organization is just what a mob boss, the most transactional agent you are ever going to see does and would do no matter what role you put him into.

Trumpkin has Rudy Gulliani running around playing State Dept/Justice Dept, the Sec of Energy playing State Dept and Sondland a yokel who bought his EU Ambassadorship mucking about in Ukraine when Ukraine is not even in the EU and Vogel an Envoy all prioritized over the actual State Dept officials that have the knowledge and the actual responsibility. All that idiocy simply because it suits Trumpkin's transactional aspirations to have Rudy and the Three Amigos mucking about all over the place no matter how much damage they actually do to the reputation and the position of the United States in the world.

Finally as an indication of the complete transactional agent nature of Trumpkin what does he do now? He awards a government contract TO HIMSELF in the placement of next year's G7 at Trump Doral.

Just imagine Hilary doing any of these things. In the first place, you can't imagine it. In the second place, the Right's heads would be exploding if she had somehow inserted a Rudy as some sort of personal servant into the workings of the StateDept/Justice Dept combined and mucked about all these other positions for her personal aspirations. We would never find some pieces of the Right's blown apart heads again the bits and pieces would be so tiny.
 
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My family is from a third world country and politics in most of the world is exactly like what we see from Trump and his supporters. Some popular celebrity or general gets elected and the people don't care that he's corrupt. They believe that he's less corrupt than the alternative. Sometimes it's worse and the opposition is some extremist communist of fascist group where any level of corruption is acceptable compared to the alternative.

Look at the Cuban Revolution. If you supported Batista you wouldn't care that he's corrupt because you don't want to see communists take over. If you support Castro you don't care that he's corrupt because you want to free the country from the chains of capitalism.

In most of the world, you see this sort of polarization and rampant corruption. It's the same in Ukraine. That's why it's almost impossible to deal with corruption.

Trump supporters know he's corrupt. They don't care. A corrupt Trump is better to them than a socialist Warren or Bernie. They don't want to see a SC full of liberals giving more gay rights.

Think about it this way. Imagine if Hillary were president and she was mired in corruption but she was a strong fighter for liberal views. Would you want her out of office knowing that Trump would be president?
Shame you guys have changed the face of Europe.
 
I just don't really know how to respond to the OP. But I will give it a try.

Corruption is corruption. There is always some of it around. When we have IMO truly erred in putting Trumpkin in the WH is that in Trumpkin we have a man that does not have a single drop of the public servant's blood in him. As such the common good which within limits is the first order of business for the Federal Government gets literally no attention whatsoever.

Trumpkin is totally transactional and a totally transactional agent will always, 100% of the time be totally transactional for himself. Anything anybody else gets depends on their ability to support the transactional agent's ability to get his and as a consequence they will get theirs. While we often comment that Trumpkin runs whatever he is in, business or government like a crime family, the money end of his dealings work the same way as in a crime family as well. Everybody kicks upstairs to the bosses and all the bosses kick upstairs to the boss of bosses. The only difference is that in the political arena, sometimes it is currency as in money that gets kicked upstairs and sometimes it political currency that gets kicked upstairs.

So Hillary makes a good comparison for this argument as she was massively unpopular for a variety of reasons. However, she IS a public servant. Whenever considering someone for federal office, if you value the transactional agent over the public servant in the end even if you think you are winning, you will LOSE because you will always be fighting an uphill battle against the transactional agent's insistence on being transactional for his own account and he is the boss. YOU are not supposed to win that battle no matter who you are. Never mind the corruption end of it for corruption sake. Who will the person you are considering to put into federal government office, working for, the people or him or herself.

So all things considered, all arguments considered, all points of view considered, Hillary would have been a better President than Trumpkin could ever hope to be for the simple reason that the first order of business for Federal Government is the common good. That is why the National Defense and the National Security is the very first obligation of Federal Government. If you have a brain, you should always pick a public servant over a transactional agent for federal government office because the public servant at least fits the role. He is not a square peg you are trying to ram into a round hole.

All these arguments we end up having about corruption end up being whataboutism and this one did that corruptly and that one did this corruptly. Generally they are partisan false narratives. There is simply no possible way that Hillary would not have been a better President than Trumpkin. She might have been every bit as corrupt as Trumpkin potentially but still would have been a better President as she would as unfailing remember her commitment to common good just as unfailingly as Trumpkin remembers his commitment to his own good, or his own account.

Just look at how bad Trumpkin's clown show has gotten in a mere 2.5 years. He has stove-piped the WH so completely with none of the bosses even talking to each other that idiot Mick Mulvaney ends up taking the podium of the WH briefing room having no earthly idea how destructive to the case of his own President what he is about to say is going to be to his own President. That is just what a mob boss, the most transactional agent you are ever going to see does and would do no matter what role you put him into.

Trumpkin has Rudy Gulliani running around playing State Dept/Justice Dept, the Sec of Energy playing State Dept and Sondland a yokel who bought his EU Ambassadorship mucking about in Ukraine when Ukraine is not even in the EU and Vogel an Envoy all prioritized over the actual State Dept officials that have the knowledge and the actual responsibility. All that idiocy simply because it suits Trumpkin's transactional aspirations to have Rudy and the Three Amigos mucking about all over the place no matter how much damage they actually do to the reputation and the position of the United States in the world.

Just imagine Hilary doing something like that. In the first place, you can't imagine it. In the second place, the Right's heads would be exploding if she had somehow inserted a Rudy as some sort of personal servant into the workings of the StateDept/Justice Dept combined and mucked about all these other positions for her personal aspirations. We would never find some pieces of the Right's blown apart heads again the bits and pieces would be so tiny.
If your going to pretend to offer an enlightened analysis advertising your blatant partisanship by using the derogatory term "Trumpkin" pretty much ****s in your corn flakes.
 
Germany let in two million of your kind in two years time.
 
I don't talk politics with people I know unless we generally agree. I don't know many Trump supporters. The vast majority of well-educated people don't support Trump.

make some new friends....open your world and mind to diverse ideas...its healthy
 
We have an independent judiciary that helps prosecute the laws. But once political polarization reaches a certain point, even the prosecutors are political.

The Philippines is a democracy with all kinds of checks and balances but Duterte is very popular so he can have senators who oppose him arrested on trumped-up charges of corruption. Xi's opponents are in prison for corruption.

Now we see Trump using his office to have Biden investigated.

But again, the point of my post was simply to explain that the way Trump supporters are behaving is very common in most of the world. And if political polarization is strong enough, the party in power can not only avoid prosecution but prosecute its opponents for corruption.

You mean like Obama and Crossfire Hurricane?
 
Tony Abbott , our ex prime minister wrote an essay on how you guys have changed the world.
 
80% of migrants are economic migrants
 
There running away because they cant afford toilet paper.
 
If your going to pretend to offer an enlightened analysis advertising your blatant partisanship by using the derogatory term "Trumpkin" pretty much ****s in your corn flakes.

Funny but irrelevant as usual. If you thought the post was about partisanship, it flew right over your head. Until Trumpkin is gone, since he won't stop "kicking upstairs" to the real boss of bosses, Putin, he remains Donald Vladimir Trumpkin.
 
Now America and Australia has to deal with you poor people bleeding our countries resources
 
Funny but irrelevant as usual. If you thought the post was about partisanship, it flew right over your head. Until Trumpkin is gone, since he won't stop "kicking upstairs" to the real boss of bosses, Putin, he remains Donald Vladimir Trumpkin.
That's even stupider than the original post.
 
make some new friends....open your world and mind to diverse ideas...its healthy

I listen to way too much conservative radio. I consider myself an independent.

Your positions have no merit. How can you convince me that Trump was interested in corruption in Ukraine and not Biden? How can you convince me that the G7 meeting being at a Trump property is just a coincidence?

These are dishonest position caused by extreme political polarization.
 
You was born in a poor country. Its not our fault.
 
I listen to way too much conservative radio. I consider myself an independent.

Your positions have no merit. How can you convince me that Trump was interested in corruption in Ukraine and not Biden? How can you convince me that the G7 meeting being at a Trump property is just a coincidence?

These are dishonest position caused by extreme political polarization.
Why is it an either/or issue? Why is it either Biden OR corruption? Ever think it might be Biden's corruption?
 
That's even stupider than the original post.

No its not. Again if you thought the original post was about partisanship it either flew entirely over your head or you picked a tiny portion of the post to make an absurd observation because IT SUITED YOUR PURPOSES. Nice try but not more than Obfuscation, page 3 of the Trumpette playbook.
 
I listen to way too much conservative radio. I consider myself an independent.

Your positions have no merit. How can you convince me that Trump was interested in corruption in Ukraine and not Biden? How can you convince me that the G7 meeting being at a Trump property is just a coincidence?

These are dishonest position caused by extreme political polarization.
Why is it an either/or issue? Why is it either Biden OR corruption? Ever think it might be Biden's corruption?
 
No its not. Again if you thought the original post was about partisanship it either flew entirely over your head or you picked a tiny portion of the post to make an absurd observation because IT SUITED YOUR PURPOSES. Nice try but not more than Obfuscation, page 3 of the Trumpette playbook.

Hell, it's the ONLY Page of the Loony lib platebook.
 
Why is it an either/or issue? Why is it either Biden OR corruption? Ever think it might be Biden's corruption?

Now I know post 29 flew right over your head.
 
Hell, it's the ONLY Page of the Loony lib platebook.

Really so all comment from libs whomever might fit that particular political bend is obfuscation. Care to support that position?
 
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