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I despise what the Trump administration has done to the Kurds ... how will non-Americans feel?

It most certainly is valid.
Not only is it invalid, but we shouldn't even be involved in ME politics in the first place. So what if Trump cost a few Kurdish lives? The Kurds shouldn't be putting themselves at risk in the first place.

Do the Kurds want a country? Cool. Earn it, like we Americans did, with blood. If the Kurds do not have the will or enough blood to win that war, then they should have calculated that at the beginning and not go to war in the first place. Instead of a Kurdistan, be Kurdish-Turks, or Kurdish-Iranians or Kurdish-Iraqis, etc.

America's only interest in the ME is oil. Polite politics aside, we don't actually give a flying f* about your magic sky wizard of choice. America does. Not. Care. If your babies die. We care about oil. We will support any leader who also supports our policies regarding Oil. We will let stand any tyrant who supports our oil policies, we will oppose any innocent sovereign who disagrees with our policies on oil.

Oil is the modern currency of Earth and if you do not do what we want, we will kill you, because we play to win.

So, where do the Kurds stand with respect to oil?
 
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Not only is it invalid, but we shouldn't even be involved in ME politics in the first place. So what if Trump cost a few Kurdish lives? The Kurds shouldn't be putting themselves at risk in the first place.

Do the Kurds want a country? Cool. Earn it, like we Americans did, with blood. If the Kurds do not have the will or enough blood to win that war, then they should have calculated that at the beginning and not go to war in the first place. Instead of a Kurdistan, be Kurdish-Turks, or Kurdish-Iranians or Kurdish-Iraqis, etc.

America's only interest in the ME is oil. Polite politics aside, we don't actually give a flying f* about your magic sky wizard of choice. America does. Not. Care. If your babies die. We care about oil. We will support any leader who also supports our policies regarding Oil. We will let stand any tyrant who supports our oil policies, we will oppose any innocent sovereign who disagrees with our policies on oil.

Oil is the modern currency of Earth and if you do not do what we want, we will kill you, because we play to win.

So, where do the Kurds stand with respect to oil?

Its not invalid. You have failed entirely to defeat the ratio of losses argument (Kurdish/US) or to even make that case.

The Kurds in and of themselves only really matter in humanitarian terms. Humanitarianism rarely counts for much in geopolitics. So I will value it as it is valued in the real world of geopolitics, pretty close to zero. Their desire for a country I would also value at zero with the exception of the degree to which it would support US National Security Interests for the Kurds to have a country. That is debatable. Not a slam dunk by any measure. That said that Syria is a country AT ALL is more the issue.

Syria as it is today was created via the UK's exit from the ME and its pin the tail on the donkey mapmaking effort in ME on their way out at least as a major military factor there. All Syria has is borders that Assad does not defend, borders that he has never defended. It has no visible means of sustenance. Its oil reserves are so tiny that their production to reserves ratio is not even reported. It has little arable land and had little arable land when its borders were created. It has even less now as it is the first of the world's countries that has suffered from climate change induced drought and famine. A good day for a Syrian ls surviving or alternately leaving. That is it!

The UK created other borders in their pin the tail on the donkey mapmaking effort but at least they left other countries with a visible means of sustenance. It left Syria with nothing. Assad has everything that matters in Syria. Everybody else is just trying to survive the next 24 hours. For the record the two real countries of the region based on tradition and history are Turkey and Iran. Iran is old Persia which is why the west really did not want to rape those people as we did. Iran as it turns out is the country that looks like and acts most like a country. It has tradition. It has history. It has pride and it has substantial visible means of sustenance. They have long memories as well.

In real terms the fact of the Kurdish alliance with the United States, an alliance that has ended in defeat not at the hands of their enemy but at the hands of their ally the United States and the geopolitical ramifications of taking such a direction and adopting such a position by the United States IS the issue.

In your third paragraph you almost got it. But not quite. Syria is strategically located such that it gives Putin, now the controlling influence in Syria since we are cutting and running, a ready launching pad to directly engage with countries that do have major oil reserves. Alternately, Iran, long Putin's ally now has what it has cherished for decades, a land bridge to the Mediterranean. A land bridge to the Mediterranean for Iran means that Israel, our ally is under a much more immediate threat from Iran than ever. At the very least, Israel and Saudi will have to play nice with Putin in order not to come under added pressure from Iran and Russia.

In geopolitical terms the United States lost big time. Putin won, big time. Assad gets to keep his personal wealth. So, he is happy. Assad is not more than a figurehead now. He does not even make puppet status. But he really does not care. Turkey wins big time though is far from the biggest winner in this. Biggest geopolitical winner by far is Putin. Second to him is Iran. Biggest geopolitical loser by far is the United States. Second biggest loser is Israel. Third biggest loser is Saudi although the Saudi's always figure to go to their standby strategy. Under threat of any sort they will lift their robes, bend over and let themselves get porked in some deal that allows them to survive and generate profits.

To understand any of this you will first have to learn how to read a map. That would at least be a start.
 
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I despise what the Trump administration has done to the Kurds in America's name. Trump has given Ergodan everything he wants. He has decimated our ability to gain trustworthy allies.

If Americans feel this way about what Trump has turned our country into, how will people in the Middle East feel? People who have better weapons and less reason for restraint than pissed off Americans sitting in our comfortable homes feel.

Trump has done so much damage to our national security. He has fortified the recruitment of the next generation of jihadists and criminal gangs on multiple continents with nothing to lose and every reason to hate us.

Do you despise what we are doing to Hong Kong Kong, and Chinese concentration camp inmates?
 
So, do you suggest we go in with out military and carve out a country for them? A bit of Iraq, a slice of Turkey, and portion of Syria, and dare the three countries to try and throw us off that hill?

You mean, like Israel? Interesting proposition.
 
But then, unlike the vast majority of Trump haters, my position does not change depending on whose ox is gored.
Pres. Bush is shaking his head somewhere, muttering "To think that to buy myself another hundred years in the quagmire, all I had to do was..."
 
Its not invalid. You have failed entirely to defeat the ratio of losses argument (Kurdish/US) or to even make that case.

The Kurds in and of themselves only really matter in humanitarian terms. Humanitarianism rarely counts for much in geopolitics. So I will value it as it is valued in the real world of geopolitics, pretty close to zero. Their desire for a country I would also value at zero with the exception of the degree to which it would support US National Security Interests for the Kurds to have a country. That is debatable. Not a slam dunk by any measure. That said that Syria is a country AT ALL is more the issue.

Syria as it is today was created via the UK's exit from the ME and its pin the tail on the donkey mapmaking effort in ME on their way out at least as a major military factor there. All Syria has is borders that Assad does not defend, borders that he has never defended. It has no visible means of sustenance. Its oil reserves are so tiny that their production to reserves ratio is not even reported. It has little arable land and had little arable land when its borders were created. It has even less now as it is the first of the world's countries that has suffered from climate change induced drought and famine. A good day for a Syrian ls surviving or alternately leaving. That is it!

The UK created other borders in their pin the tail on the donkey mapmaking effort but at least they left other countries with a visible means of sustenance. It left Syria with nothing. Assad has everything that matters in Syria. Everybody else is just trying to survive the next 24 hours. For the record the two real countries of the region based on tradition and history are Turkey and Iran. Iran is old Persia which is why the west really did not want to rape those people as we did. Iran as it turns out is the country that looks like and acts most like a country. It has tradition. It has history. It has pride and it has substantial visible means of sustenance. They have long memories as well.

In real terms the fact of the Kurdish alliance with the United States, an alliance that has ended in defeat not at the hands of their enemy but at the hands of their ally the United States and the geopolitical ramifications of taking such a direction and adopting such a position by the United States IS the issue.

In your third paragraph you almost got it. But not quite. Syria is strategically located such that it gives Putin, now the controlling influence in Syria since we are cutting and running, a ready launching pad to directly engage with countries that do have major oil reserves. Alternately, Iran, long Putin's ally now has what it has cherished for decades, a land bridge to the Mediterranean. A land bridge to the Mediterranean for Iran means that Israel, our ally is under a much more immediate threat from Iran than ever. At the very least, Israel and Saudi will have to play nice with Putin in order not to come under added pressure from Iran and Russia.

In geopolitical terms the United States lost big time. Putin won, big time. Assad gets to keep his personal wealth. So, he is happy. Assad is not more than a figurehead now. He does not even make puppet status. But he really does not care. Turkey wins big time though is far from the biggest winner in this. Biggest geopolitical winner by far is Putin. Second to him is Iran. Biggest geopolitical loser by far is the United States. Second biggest loser is Israel. Third biggest loser is Saudi although the Saudi's always figure to go to their standby strategy. Under threat of any sort they will lift their robes, bend over and let themselves get porked in some deal that allows them to survive and generate profits.

To understand any of this you will first have to learn how to read a map. That would at least be a start.

Excellent analysis.
 
You mean, like Israel? Interesting proposition.
If fairness to the Israelis, they can (mostly) take care of themselves.

A Kurdish state? Not in a million years.
 
If fairness to the Israelis, they can (mostly) take care of themselves.

A Kurdish state? Not in a million years.

Mmm....the billions upon billions of dollars sent in "aid" to Israel speaks to a different reality. If we gave as many guns to the Kurds as we do to the Israelis, would they not stand a chance? I mean, a quick google search shows America alone sends Israel $3.8 billion a year in military aid.
 
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Excellent analysis.
Except the part where he leaves out Assad being the only force for political stability in the region.

...and all of the alternatives to his ruie being far worse.

How many more trillions of dollars do you suppose American taxpayers should throw at the problem to (at best) be in exactly the same situation in five years as they are now? Perhaps save money by abolishing the IRS and having everyone send their income tax directly to the Pentagon and military contractors?
 
Mmm....the billions upon billions of dollars sent in "aid" to Israel speaks to a different reality. If we gave as many guns to the Kurds as we do to the Israelis, would they not stand a chance? I mean, a quick google search shows America alone has sends Israel $3.8 billion a year in military aid.
A whopping $3.8 billion a year, you say?

It's sure a good thing then that US military operations in Syria haven't run $3.8 billion a year... or 140 times that.

Incidentally, the US has armed the Kurds. For well over a decade. Your government shouldn't have--they have no business choosing sides in civil wars--but they did. Now formerly war-rational leftists driven insane by Pres. Trump are using this as an excuse to try to undo the one truly good thing the man will accomplish during his tenure: get the hell out of the quagmire.

I honestly wonder whether the war hawks fought this hard to keep US troops in Vietnam.
 
A whopping $3.8 billion a year, you say?

It's sure a good thing then that US military operations in Syria haven't run $3.8 billion a year... or 140 times that.

Incidentally, the US has armed the Kurds. For well over a decade. Your government shouldn't have--they have no business choosing sides in civil wars--but they did. Now formerly rational leftists driven insane by Pres. Trump are using this as an excuse to try to undo the one truly good thing the man will accomplish during his tenure: get the hell out of the quagmire.

I honestly wonder whether the war hawks fought this hard to keep US troops in Vietnam.

My government? hehe... Check mah location, yo. :lol:

Anyway...what does this have to do with whether or not the Kurds could form their own nation? I thought we were talking about that. How did we devolve into this weird lefty bashing thing?

And, sorry, how is abandoning allies, which the Kurds have been to America, to genocide a good thing? Just wondering how the framing of that looks....
 
I despise what the Trump administration has done to the Kurds in America's name. Trump has given Ergodan everything he wants. He has decimated our ability to gain trustworthy allies.

If Americans feel this way about what Trump has turned our country into, how will people in the Middle East feel? People who have better weapons and less reason for restraint than pissed off Americans sitting in our comfortable homes feel.

Trump has done so much damage to our national security. He has fortified the recruitment of the next generation of jihadists and criminal gangs on multiple continents with nothing to lose and every reason to hate us.

Fortified the next generation on multiple continents to hate us? Are you saying they have "liked" us in the past, I think not!
 
My government? hehe... Check mah location, yo. :lol:
Yes, sorry. I forgots. :doh

And, sorry, how is abandoning allies, which the Kurds have been to America, to genocide a good thing? Just wondering how the framing of that looks....
If they can't sustain a war--especially given the assistance they've already received--their cause is doomed.

They cannot win. They either give up or they die.

You either abandon them to the slaughter now, or you abandon them to the slaughter later. The case for not abandoning them rests entirely on the premise that the US has the power to bring about a stable, self-sufficient, regionally-recognized state that won't be devoured or devolve into bloody anarchy the second American support is withdrawn. This premise is a lie. The past 20 years have been a visceral exercise in proving this premise to be a lie. To deny this now is the height of Western hubris.

If I were a US taxpayer, I'd personally want to see the Kurdish fighters slaughtered (or hopefully, give up their cause) before rather than after wasting trillions to protract their doomed campaign.
 
Yes, sorry. I forgots. :doh


If they can't sustain a war--especially given the assistance they've already received--their cause is doomed.

They cannot win. They either give up or they die.

You either abandon them to the slaughter now, or you abandon them to the slaughter later. The case for not abandoning them rests entirely on the premise that the US has the power to bring about a stable, self-sufficient, regionally-recognized state that won't be devoured or devolve into bloody anarchy the second American support is withdrawn. This premise is a lie. The past 20 years have been a visceral exercise in proving this premise to be a lie. To deny this now is the height of Western hubris.

If I were a US taxpayer, I'd personally want to see the Kurdish fighters slaughtered (or hopefully, give up their cause) before rather than after wasting trillions to protract their doomed campaign.

Err...wow. Ok.

I mean... I guess I come down on the anti-slaughter side of this...that may be hubris, but ... yeah. Can't help it. I'm not a fan of slaughter.
 
For the first time in history, the Leftists give a rat's ass about the Kurds. This is so fake. :lamo

They care nothing for them whatever. Only so long as they can be used as some cudgel against Trump, will they matter. The left has no problem with people dying if it helps their cause. By the same token, they care nothing about people dying if they can't be used politically. For them to whine about the Kurds or the people at the Southern border while utterly ignoring the ongoing carnage in Chicago, the homeless epidemic in CA or the tens of thousands of opioid deaths, speaks to their complete cynicism and lack of ethics.
 
Does it now. Syria is not Iraq. Your position reeks of the failed, wrong and racially biased Domino Theory regarding Vietnam and the rest of Southeast Asia. The two circumstances, Iraq and Syria are entirely different as were the realities of Vietman v Cambodia, Laos etc.

"Oh my hypocrisy? That's different, don't cha know?"

Please...spare us the denial.
 
"Oh my hypocrisy? That's different, don't cha know?"

Please...spare us the denial.

No denial. A simply. If you want to contest it. Be my guest.

But you can't can you. You don't even know what the frigg I am talking about, do you!
 
Fortified the next generation on multiple continents to hate us? Are you saying they have "liked" us in the past, I think not!

No, I didn't say they liked us. I said what I said. Trump has given them more cause to hate us and has given them way more substance to use to recruit people into the cause of doing us great harm. And he has materially harmed our prospects of forming helpful alliances.
 
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