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Sondland throws Trump and Guliani under the bus first!

Mycroft said:
Actually, if you read his opening statement, Sondland does NOT throw Trump and Giuliani under the bus. He accurately describes everything that he was involved in and even emphasizes the fact that Trump didn't want any quid pro quo from Ukraine.

That's going to chap Schiffty's ass.
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Not going to chap Schiff's ass at all. But you can keep up the fantasy awhile longer.
 
bubbabgone said:
How would you know that? Or rather, how can you assume that when the topic was corruption?
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Because if the topic were corruption Trump could have used -any- plethora of exmaples of Ukrainian corruption to address the issue. He didn't. His sole fixation was Biden/Bursima/Crowdstrike.

WHY?
 
Mach said:
There is no good evidence that Trump was interested in anti-corruption, in Ukraine or anywhere else.
All evidence indicates he was looking for help against his chief political rival in the 2020, and i helping counter the Russian/DNC narrative (Via crowdstrike conspiracy theory)

All evidence indicates the supporting cast of actual state department people were largely working on actually trying to help Ukraine, and encourage anti-corruption actions, etc.
All evidence indicates Rudy and a cast of criminals, was instead used directly by Trump to pursue Trump's agenda to get dirt on Biden.
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The idea that a verifiably corrupt individual, Trump, would suddenly become interested in tackling corruption in a foreign country is laughable. Have people forgotten the Trump 'university' scam, or his 'charitable' foundation being forced to close because of serious financial irregularity? In other words; graft. His supporters don't like reminders, so I'll continue to remind them.
 
snakestretcher said:
The idea that a verifiably corrupt individual, Trump, would suddenly become interested in tackling corruption in a foreign country is laughable. Have people forgotten the Trump 'university' scam, or his 'charitable' foundation being forced to close because of serious financial irregularity? In other words; graft. His supporters don't like reminders.
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That the cronies that support this president don't see what has happened here as corrupt is a homage to the power of the right wing noise machine, which began with the inglorious bastard, Reagan, ending the fairness doctrine. Everyone pisses and moans about the media, but without the fairness doctrine, what the **** do they expect?

The media right now, and its insane bias, is an EXAMPLE of republican policy NOT WORKING, and deregulation NOT working. This is the most direct evidence their ideology is a complete and total fraud, a hoax perpetrated by cruel, sneering oligarchs.

They have become nothing but a rubber stamp for corruption.
 
Mach said:
Ooh, and there is some comic relief courtesy Trix.
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Facts? They're after doublespeak. Anyone who listens to the insufferable degenerate who repeatedly huffs helium by grating against the largest wedgie ever, Ben Shapiro, is not after facts.
 
Mycroft said:
Actually, if you read his opening statement, Sondland does NOT throw Trump and Giuliani under the bus. He accurately describes everything that he was involved in and even emphasizes the fact that Trump didn't want any quid pro quo from Ukraine.

That's going to chap Schiffty's ass.
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Not really. As the text messages and Sondland’s testimony say - the Ukrainians were under the impression that there was a quid-pro-quo. And despite Trumps multiple pathetic attempts to claim the opposite per Sondland - not one soul has provided any other reason those funds were withheld. As for bus throwing...if there was ever any doubt that Trump didn’t know what Ghouliani was up to Sondland ripped it to shreds.
 
Obscurity said:
Because if the topic were corruption Trump could have used -any- plethora of exmaples of Ukrainian corruption to address the issue. He didn't. His sole fixation was Biden/Bursima/Crowdstrike.

WHY?
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Because of Ukraine's very recent corruption that involved the USA before their new President was elected.

Don't you remember from the transcript it was Zelensky who brought it up ...

"Well yes, to tell you the truth, we are trying to work hard because we wanted to drain the swamp here in our country. We brought in many many new people. Not the old politicians, not the typical politicians, because we want to have a new format and a new type of government. You are a great teacher for us and in that."

and later he called attention to his experience with US ambassador Yovanovitch ...

"On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to us, it would be very helpful for the investigation to make sure that we administer justice in our country with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine <sic> as far I as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough.

So ... clearly the topic was corruption.
 
Fletch said:
It does? Where exactly? Please quote it.
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There's no point. You don't recognize it. It's like we're living in an episode of Black Mirror, and everyone left on the filters for you conservatives so you don't even see what triggers you anymore.
 
bubbabgone said:
Because of Ukraine's very recent corruption that involved the USA before their new President was elected.

Don't you remember from the transcript it was Zelensky who brought it up ...

"Well yes, to tell you the truth, we are trying to work hard because we wanted to drain the swamp here in our country. We brought in many many new people. Not the old politicians, not the typical politicians, because we want to have a new format and a new type of government. You are a great teacher for us and in that."

and later he called attention to his experience with US ambassador Yovanovitch ...

"On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to us, it would be very helpful for the investigation to make sure that we administer justice in our country with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine <sic> as far I as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough.

So ... clearly the topic was corruption.
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Non-answer. If the focus is corruption why would Trump go to such great lengths to ensure the Bursima, which was a non-issue, was focus number one, when they had plenty of other examples of ukrainian corruption to use?

Because Trump is an -idiot-, that's why. Because corruption -was not the issue, ever, period.-

Only someone who wants to NOT see what Trump did here will NOT see what Trump did here.

I can't help you with that.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Trump defenders denied that this was evident in the call. They tried to spin the call. Sondland basically affirms that the transcripts says what non-delusional people think it says.

The bottom line is Trump wasn't interested in Ukraine corruption. He was interested in investigating his political rival.

A Fox News poll found that a whopping 66% of people believe it was wrong for a president to ask a foreign leader to investigate his rival. It's not illegal but it's a gross abuse of power.
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Sondland says specifically that Trump was interested in corruption. Read it yourself.
 
Obscurity said:
Non-answer. If the focus is corruption why would Trump go to such great lengths to ensure the Bursima, which was a non-issue, was focus number one, when they had plenty of other examples of ukrainian corruption to use?

Because Trump is an -idiot-, that's why. Because corruption -was not the issue, ever, period.-

Only someone who wants to NOT see what Trump did here will NOT see what Trump did here.

I can't help you with that.
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You are drawing conclusions from Sondlands statement that arent in there
 
Fletch said:
You are drawing conclusions from Sondlands statement that arent in there
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You are refusing to see what -everyone- else sees, at least an overwhelming majority of people.

It absolutely has to be wilful, and you'll never convince me otherwise.
 
Fletch said:
Sondland says specifically that Trump was interested in corruption. Read it yourself.
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And directly indicates Trump's focus with the Manhattan Ghoul was Bursima, Biden, and Crowdstrike, which is absolutely hilarious, when he could have chosen any example of Ukrainian corruption that did NOT include his political rivals.

A point not one single ****ing right winger has yet actually answered, because we all know the answer! IT was about POLITICS. Not corruption.
 
Obscurity said:
There's no point. You don't recognize it. It's like we're living in an episode of Black Mirror, and everyone left on the filters for you conservatives so you don't even see what triggers you anymore.
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Boy, you ask a liberal a simple question they cant answer and they attack the person asking. Man up and prove your point. You claim its in his statement, quote it or just admit you made it up.
 
Napoleon said:
Not really. As the text messages and Sondland’s testimony say - the Ukrainians were under the impression that there was a quid-pro-quo. And despite Trumps multiple pathetic attempts to claim the opposite per Sondland - not one soul has provided any other reason those funds were withheld. As for bus throwing...if there was ever any doubt that Trump didn’t know what Ghouliani was up to Sondland ripped it to shreds.
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You didn't read the statement, did you?
 
Looks like Trumpists are going to have to leap straight to "so what" on this one.
 
Obscurity said:
Non-answer. If the focus is corruption why would Trump go to such great lengths to ensure the Bursima, which was a non-issue, was focus number one, when they had plenty of other examples of ukrainian corruption to use?

Because Trump is an -idiot-, that's why. Because corruption -was not the issue, ever, period.-

Only someone who wants to NOT see what Trump did here will NOT see what Trump did here.

I can't help you with that.
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The new Ukraine President knew corruption is an issue. He brought it up. Corruption was the issue they were talking about. Period. I quoted from the transcript.
If what you want to believe wasn't in the words spoken then it's you who can't be helped.
You appear to be a very stubborn fellow in the face of the facts.
 
Obscurity said:
You are refusing to see what -everyone- else sees, at least an overwhelming majority of people.

It absolutely has to be wilful, and you'll never convince me otherwise.
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Dont hide behind a phony crowd. You made the claims, back they up with quotes from the statement.
 
Helix said:
Looks like Trumpists are going to have to leap straight to "so what" on this one.
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No, we are leaping to 'prove it' and just like the collusion hoax that suckered you all in, you are failing to do so.
 
Mycroft said:
You didn't read the statement, did you?
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Yep. Especially liked the part about Trump ordering career diplomats to let Ghouliani run US foreign policy on Ukraine and that despite a strange phone call with an angry Trump claiming he wanted “nothing” in exchange for the money nobody has come up with a plausible alternative to quid pro quo.
 
Mycroft said:
You didn't read the statement, did you?
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None of them have read it. Not one of them can back up their idiotic claims with an actual quote from the text.
 
Napoleon said:
Yep. Especially liked the part about Trump ordering career diplomats to let Ghouliani run US foreign policy on Ukraine and that despite a strange phone call with an angry Trump claiming he wanted “nothing” in exchange for the money nobody has come up with a plausible alternative to quid pro quo.
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Sigh...

Please quote the part of the statement in which Trump ordered "career diplomats to let Ghouliani run US foreign policy on Ukraine". And please quote the part where Sondland says that the "Ukrainians were under the impression that there was a quid-pro-quo".

Let's see if you actually did read Sondland's opening statement.
 
bubbabgone said:
The new Ukraine President knew corruption is an issue. He brought it up. Corruption was the issue they were talking about. Period. I quoted from the transcript.
If what you want to believe wasn't in the words spoken then it's you who can't be helped.
You appear to be a very stubborn fellow in the face of the facts.
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You appear to be turning a blind eye to what happened. That's not my issue.
 
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