Why do we need Bernie, and not another Democrat?

[Craig234]

It's not because of his healthcare policy, his student debt policy, his minimum wage policy, or other specific policies. Those might be good reasons for him to win, but they're not the main reason.

The reason isn't about any specific policy this election. It's about the direction of the country, which took a wrong turn with Nixon/Reagan, toward plutocracy, where all the economic wealth was shifted away from the American people and to the few most wealthy - and power followed, to where our democracy is heavily corrupt.

We need a change in direction for the country, not shifting some numbers here and there as we continue the plutocracy.

And only Bernie seems to really understand that and to want to change the direction of the country back to its traditional values, of government that serves the people.

Democracy is more and more attacked, destroyed, weakened the longer the plutocracy continues, as the courts are packed with plutocrats who are re-writing the constitution (e.g., money is speech) to cement the plutocracy in place and remove the people's power.

Bernie is a historic candidate. More need to understand that. Electing him won't fix things alone - as he says, that's the start to fixing things if the people have a political revolution as well as electing him to lead it.

Words like 'revolution' are scary to people, but they shouldn't be. We had a 'bad' revolution, the 'Reagan revolution', which put us on plutocracy.

This is a return to normal American values - when a 10% increase in the economy tends to benefit everyone 10%, instead of only the most rich taking it all, as they have for decades, leading to record inequality.

We can't afford to keep the same thing we've been doing 40 years going - electing fast plutocracy under Republicans and slower plutocracy under centrist Democrats. The American people should get the big increase in wealth and power that would come from Bernie's policies as we restore democracy.

 

[Ikari]

Bernie gets more play and popularity today I think in part because of Trump and the Status Quo.

I'm not sure that had the government been held to The People and served The People, that a message like Bernie's be so popular now.

 

[Surrealistik]

It's not because of his healthcare policy, his student debt policy, his minimum wage policy, or other specific policies. Those might be good reasons for him to win, but they're not the main reason.

The reason isn't about any specific policy this election. It's about the direction of the country, which took a wrong turn with Nixon/Reagan, toward plutocracy, where all the economic wealth was shifted away from the American people and to the few most wealthy - and power followed, to where our democracy is heavily corrupt.

We need a change in direction for the country, not shifting some numbers here and there as we continue the plutocracy.

And only Bernie seems to really understand that and to want to change the direction of the country back to its traditional values, of government that serves the people.

Democracy is more and more attacked, destroyed, weakened the longer the plutocracy continues, as the courts are packed with plutocrats who are re-writing the constitution (e.g., money is speech) to cement the plutocracy in place and remove the people's power.

Bernie is a historic candidate. More need to understand that. Electing him won't fix things alone - as he says, that's the start to fixing things if the people have a political revolution as well as electing him to lead it.

Words like 'revolution' are scary to people, but they shouldn't be. We had a 'bad' revolution, the 'Reagan revolution', which put us on plutocracy.

This is a return to normal American values - when a 10% increase in the economy tends to benefit everyone 10%, instead of only the most rich taking it all, as they have for decades, leading to record inequality.

We can't afford to keep the same thing we've been doing 40 years going - electing fast plutocracy under Republicans and slower plutocracy under centrist Democrats. The American people should get the big increase in wealth and power that would come from Bernie's policies as we restore democracy.

I agree; one of his most fundamental, indelible and basic strengths is that he is utterly incorruptible and unwaveringly principled which simply cannot be said for all of his competition.

 

[Drawdown]

I agree; one of his most fundamental, indelible and basic strengths is that he is utterly incorruptible and unwaveringly principled which simply cannot be said for all of his competition.

LOL. If he hadn't sold his endorsement to Hillary, I would agree. As is, nope.

 

[Mycroft]

LOL. If he hadn't sold his endorsement to Hillary, I would agree. As is, nope.

Especially after Hillary and DWS screwed him over.

 

[Redress]

The only thing I need from Sanders is for him to lose. I am not a fan of populist demagogues.

 

[Surrealistik]

LOL. If he hadn't sold his endorsement to Hillary, I would agree. As is, nope.

It was probably an easy choice between someone unthinkable like Trump, and someone merely repugnant like Hillary. He didn't defy his principles, he adhered to him, because the choice was in the end, between bad and worse.

 

[Surrealistik]

Bernie gets more play and popularity today I think in part because of Trump and the Status Quo.

I'm not sure that had the government been held to The People and served The People, that a message like Bernie's be so popular now.

I doubt Bernie would have ran at all if the government was indeed acting to serve its constituents and not the donor class about exclusively.

 

[Trippy Trekker]

While acknowledging Sanders ground game and fundraising process, I see no viable path to Sanders winning the nomination.

In 2016, he never gained sufficient traction in critical southern states.



Who’s Up and Who’s Down in 2020 Democratic Fund-Raising - The New York Times

2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries - Wikipedia

Larry J. Sabato's Crystal Ball >> 2020 President

 

[ttwtt78640]

It's not because of his healthcare policy, his student debt policy, his minimum wage policy, or other specific policies. Those might be good reasons for him to win, but they're not the main reason.

The reason isn't about any specific policy this election. It's about the direction of the country, which took a wrong turn with Nixon/Reagan, toward plutocracy, where all the economic wealth was shifted away from the American people and to the few most wealthy - and power followed, to where our democracy is heavily corrupt.

We need a change in direction for the country, not shifting some numbers here and there as we continue the plutocracy.

And only Bernie seems to really understand that and to want to change the direction of the country back to its traditional values, of government that serves the people.

Democracy is more and more attacked, destroyed, weakened the longer the plutocracy continues, as the courts are packed with plutocrats who are re-writing the constitution (e.g., money is speech) to cement the plutocracy in place and remove the people's power.

Bernie is a historic candidate. More need to understand that. Electing him won't fix things alone - as he says, that's the start to fixing things if the people have a political revolution as well as electing him to lead it.

Words like 'revolution' are scary to people, but they shouldn't be. We had a 'bad' revolution, the 'Reagan revolution', which put us on plutocracy.

This is a return to normal American values - when a 10% increase in the economy tends to benefit everyone 10%, instead of only the most rich taking it all, as they have for decades, leading to record inequality.

We can't afford to keep the same thing we've been doing 40 years going - electing fast plutocracy under Republicans and slower plutocracy under centrist Democrats. The American people should get the big increase in wealth and power that would come from Bernie's policies as we restore democracy.

Believe it or not, our "traditional values" do not align with Democratic Socialism.

 

[swing_voter]

Like most of the left wing, Bernie to punish America. He needs to get elected first.

 

[rjay]

While acknowledging Sanders ground game and fundraising process, I see no viable path to Sanders winning the nomination.

In 2016, he never gained sufficient traction in critical southern states.

View attachment 67266368

Who’s Up and Who’s Down in 2020 Democratic Fund-Raising - The New York Times

2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries - Wikipedia

Larry J. Sabato's Crystal Ball >> 2020 President

How many voters do you think that Trump number represents? We know the Sanders number represents 33,700,000 / $28 That is a lot of voters. Trumps numbers may represent 17 voters total for all I know.

 

[Praxas]

LOL. If he hadn't sold his endorsement to Hillary, I would agree. As is, nope.

If it’s between trump or Bernie, I’ll vote Bernie. There isn’t a dem candidate in the current field of candidates that I wouldn’t vote for over trump at this point. I didn’t vote for Obama on his second term but there is no way I’m letting a vote go towards trump on my end.

 

[Trippy Trekker]

How many voters do you think that Trump number represents? We know the Sanders number represents 33,700,000 / $28 That is a lot of voters. Trumps numbers may represent 17 voters total for all I know.

Crime syndicates I assume could care less about transparency and accuracy when it comes to financial disclosure.

Team Trump has partnered with the RNC for fundraising, resulting in even further murkiness in disclosure.

Trump regales the crowds at his rallies with scurrilous attacks on his opponents, lies and tales about his accomplishments, and boasts about the economy. He panders to their fears, fanning racial division, railing against immigrants and Muslims and the homeless.

He’s pugnacious, funny and outrageous. They know he’s a bad guy, but they think he’s their bad guy. And that is the con.

The anonymous donors who are contributing record amounts to Trump’s campaign don’t wear MAGA hats. They don’t go to public rallies.

They roll their eyes at Trump’s rambling rants and racial taunts. They aren’t on strike or in the streets. They are getting a great return on their investment and are happy to ante up again.

The Trump economy doesn’t work for most Americans, but it works for them. Trump keeps his promises — and his payoffs — to them.

They know Trump is a grifter, but he’s their grifter. They are all in on the con.

To his wealthy donors, Trump is their grifter - Chicago Sun-Times

 

[Craig234]

LOL. If he hadn't sold his endorsement to Hillary, I would agree. As is, nope.

That's a lie. He neither sold his endorsement, nor did he make a mistake in endorsing someone far less bad than trump overall.

 

[Craig234]

The only thing I need from Sanders is for him to lose. I am not a fan of populist demagogues.

Demagogues have almost no substance, but more than your post.

 

[SoCal]

I agree; one of his most fundamental, indelible and basic strengths is that he is utterly incorruptible and unwaveringly principled which simply cannot be said for all of his competition.

As much as I would love to see the Democrats most progressive policies put in place, job one is beating Numnuts. I don't believe Sanders or Warren gives us our best chance, but I don't believe she's corruptible and I don't doubt her principles. She may not be forthright on the taxes needed for her health plan (which I approve of), but Democrats should be able to disagree about policies without hurling accusations...

"Sen. Elizabeth Warren on Tuesday challenged her Democratic primary rivals to release the names of contributors and fundraisers with influential positions on their campaigns, while pledging to champion legislation that would effectively disqualify big-dollar donors from being appointed to cushy diplomatic posts..."

 

[Craig234]

As much as I would love to see the Democrats most progressive policies put in place, job one is beating Numnuts. I don't believe Sanders or Warren gives us our best chance, but I don't believe she's corruptible and I don't doubt her principles. She may not be forthright on the taxes needed for her health plan (which I approve of), but Democrats should be able to disagree about policies without hurling accusations...

Ask yourself, how expert are you, really, at predicting how well Sanders would do against trump?

Did you predict that trump would defeat all the Republicans, and ride populist outrage to the nomination?

Do you fully appreciate how uniquely positioned Bernie is to dominate the largest 'party', the independents - when he got 2 independents for every 1 Hillary got when he was little known? To take all the 'populist outrage' voters away from trump, who has so clearly betrayed them? How many voters said they'd vote for Bernie first in 2016, and trump when he didn't get nominated?

Is your opinion based mostly on 'he seems far to the left so his chances are worse and the word socialist hurts his chances'? Not understanding the real chances?

 

[Surrealistik]

As much as I would love to see the Democrats most progressive policies put in place, job one is beating Numnuts. I don't believe Sanders or Warren gives us our best chance, but I don't believe she's corruptible and I don't doubt her principles. She may not be forthright on the taxes needed for her health plan (which I approve of), but Democrats should be able to disagree about policies without hurling accusations...

"Sen. Elizabeth Warren on Tuesday challenged her Democratic primary rivals to release the names of contributors and fundraisers with influential positions on their campaigns, while pledging to champion legislation that would effectively disqualify big-dollar donors from being appointed to cushy diplomatic posts..."

Put it this way: I certainly wouldn't accuse Warren of being corrupt, but I would accuse her of being significantly more malleable and easily swayed, and I don't fully trust that she will remain true to her principles and policy where they clash with her party loyalties.

I like Warren, but I definitely don't think she's in the same league as Bernie in terms of being solid and unshakable in her convictions and beliefs and being an adamant fighter for them.

 

[SoCal]

Ask yourself, how expert are you, really, at predicting how well Sanders would do against trump?

Did you predict that trump would defeat all the Republicans, and ride populist outrage to the nomination?

Do you fully appreciate how uniquely positioned Bernie is to dominate the largest 'party', the independents - when he got 2 independents for every 1 Hillary got when he was little known? To take all the 'populist outrage' voters away from trump, who has so clearly betrayed them? How many voters said they'd vote for Bernie first in 2016, and trump when he didn't get nominated?

Is your opinion based mostly on 'he seems far to the left so his chances are worse and the word socialist hurts his chances'? Not understanding the real chances?

If Sanders is polling the best out of the all Democratic candidates against Don just prior to the primary, I hope he wins the nomination. But I've said for a long time that he won't be the one to see his policies enacted. Proposing great policies and being great at selling them are two different things. On the practical side, being 78 years old and having had a recent heart attack aside, I believe his personality and cranky demeanor hurts the Democrats chances.

And no, I didn't predict a Trump win, my predictions are just my opinions based on my interest in politics and being a news junkie. Although there's a well known legend that precedes me wherever I travel; "So goes SoCal, so goes the nation", in reality I can't get them all right. :2razz:

Put it this way: I certainly wouldn't accuse Warren of being corrupt, but I would accuse her of being significantly more malleable and easily swayed, and I don't fully trust that she will remain true to her principles and policy where they clash with her party loyalties.

I like Warren, but I definitely don't think she's in the same league as Bernie in terms of being solid and unshakable in her convictions and beliefs and being an adamant fighter for them.

You have a good point, Sanders has been at it a very long time without wavering. But his inability to get so few of his proposals passed indicates to me that they either go too far too fast, or he's not a good salesman. Given how horrendous Numnuts is, I think he could/would win the general, I just believe one of the other Democrats running gives us better odds. I also believe it's a moot point, as I predict he won't win the nomination...

 

[3leftsdoo]

It's not because of his healthcare policy, his student debt policy, his minimum wage policy, or other specific policies. Those might be good reasons for him to win, but they're not the main reason.

The reason isn't about any specific policy this election. It's about the direction of the country, which took a wrong turn with Nixon/Reagan, toward plutocracy, where all the economic wealth was shifted away from the American people and to the few most wealthy - and power followed, to where our democracy is heavily corrupt.

We need a change in direction for the country, not shifting some numbers here and there as we continue the plutocracy.

And only Bernie seems to really understand that and to want to change the direction of the country back to its traditional values, of government that serves the people.

Democracy is more and more attacked, destroyed, weakened the longer the plutocracy continues, as the courts are packed with plutocrats who are re-writing the constitution (e.g., money is speech) to cement the plutocracy in place and remove the people's power.

Bernie is a historic candidate. More need to understand that. Electing him won't fix things alone - as he says, that's the start to fixing things if the people have a political revolution as well as electing him to lead it.

Words like 'revolution' are scary to people, but they shouldn't be. We had a 'bad' revolution, the 'Reagan revolution', which put us on plutocracy.

This is a return to normal American values - when a 10% increase in the economy tends to benefit everyone 10%, instead of only the most rich taking it all, as they have for decades, leading to record inequality.

We can't afford to keep the same thing we've been doing 40 years going - electing fast plutocracy under Republicans and slower plutocracy under centrist Democrats. The American people should get the big increase in wealth and power that would come from Bernie's policies as we restore democracy.

Good OP.

But Bernie was politically assassinated by the Democrats in 2016, and it's continuing to cost them in 2020.

The gross betrayal then, and arson by impeachment now, will ultimately destroy the Democrat Party.

The only thing which can save that party is the removal of sociopathic career criminals like Pelosi, Schiff, Schumer & the like, a halt to the criminal impeachment farce, and an honest, thorough examination of their extreme crimes in 2016 - 2019.

Until then, it's all whistling past the graveyard.

:hm

 

[Surrealistik]

You have a good point, Sanders has been at it a very long time without wavering. But his inability to get so few of his proposals passed indicates to me that they either go too far too fast, or he's not a good salesman. Given how horrendous Numnuts is, I think he could/would win the general, I just believe one of the other Democrats running gives us better odds. I also believe it's a moot point, as I predict he won't win the nomination...

Only Biden has ever really been competition for Sanders among the general population in terms of electability per head to heads against Trump; no one else has come consistently close to his numbers. If you're a news junkie, I would have thought you'd have known this.

Further, Bernie has done plenty during his time in Washington as Amendment King; naturally he hasn't been able to get his more ambitious ideas passed given the obvious pay to play corruption that is the norm in Washington and generally has been for nearly half a century at this point. It should also be noted that his ideas have only recently entered the Overton window and realm of acceptability in the corridors of power; something he is about singlehandedly responsible for, along with commanding by and large, the agenda of the Democratic party, which now echos his core ideas in various different shades.

Moreover, no amount of salesmanship on the part of one Senator is going to defy the entirety of the Beltway's entrenched and monied interests; the same interests that compelled Obama to abandon singlepayer and ultimately pass a Republican healthcare plan that was later gutted of even its public option (thanks to notorious health insurance shill Joe Lieberman); a pitiful, tepid half-measure that ultimately became to be known as Obamacare/ACA. Despite the Dems solidly controlling every branch of government, we ended up with a pathetic healthcare plan that was not only the brainchild of a conservative, Republican thinktank, but a gutted variant at that; what an absolute farce. This to me doesn't at all suggest Bernie goes too far too fast, as that Washington has a serious problem with mundane corruption, legislative and corporate capture, and the vastly disproportionate influence of the wealthy.

 

[Luther]

It's not because of his healthcare policy, his student debt policy, his minimum wage policy, or other specific policies. Those might be good reasons for him to win, but they're not the main reason.

The reason isn't about any specific policy this election. It's about the direction of the country, which took a wrong turn with Nixon/Reagan, toward plutocracy, where all the economic wealth was shifted away from the American people and to the few most wealthy - and power followed, to where our democracy is heavily corrupt.

We need a change in direction for the country, not shifting some numbers here and there as we continue the plutocracy.

And only Bernie seems to really understand that and to want to change the direction of the country back to its traditional values, of government that serves the people.

Democracy is more and more attacked, destroyed, weakened the longer the plutocracy continues, as the courts are packed with plutocrats who are re-writing the constitution (e.g., money is speech) to cement the plutocracy in place and remove the people's power.

Bernie is a historic candidate. More need to understand that. Electing him won't fix things alone - as he says, that's the start to fixing things if the people have a political revolution as well as electing him to lead it.

Words like 'revolution' are scary to people, but they shouldn't be. We had a 'bad' revolution, the 'Reagan revolution', which put us on plutocracy.

This is a return to normal American values - when a 10% increase in the economy tends to benefit everyone 10%, instead of only the most rich taking it all, as they have for decades, leading to record inequality.

We can't afford to keep the same thing we've been doing 40 years going - electing fast plutocracy under Republicans and slower plutocracy under centrist Democrats. The American people should get the big increase in wealth and power that would come from Bernie's policies as we restore democracy.

You won't get Bernie so get over it Craig

Just saying

 

[Craig234]

But his inability to get so few of his proposals passed indicates to me that they either go too far too fast, or he's not a good salesman.

Except that he's the most effective member of Congress at getting his amendments passed. The opposite of your assumed but stated as fact opinion. Facts. You think there's a reason I asked you about whether you are actually informed in your assertions? That's why 'electability' is such a misunderstood attribute. Now, will you go read a little and update your opinions?

 

[Luther]

If Bernie would come his hair, stop yelling and stop looking overall like a "Mad scientist" then, he has a chance