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Biden is finished, and Warren has some issues.

Crovax said:
“You can put an end to endless war without embracing Donald Trump’s policy, as you’re doing.”
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Did she reply, "We've swallowed that excuse for twenty years, sir. No more."?
 
COTO said:
Did she reply, "We've swallowed that excuse for twenty years, sir. No more."?
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Should have watched the debate rather than FOX.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The basic problem is that the demorat POTUS candidates are stuck with having to get the approval of the far left portion of their base on board (to win the DNC nomination) and then "evolve" back to center left to have any realistic chance of getting the required share of independents during the general election.

The idea that Buttigieg could become the "centrist" in place of Biden is wishful thinking since he lacks the ability to energize the black vote (Biden's ace in the hole to win in the SC primary), talks too much like an elite policy wonk (is not the least bit folksy?) and has no national government experience.

My bet is on Warren to prevail since she has the far left positions covered without ever having declared herself to be a socialist intent on taxing the hell out of the middle class. Once AOC endorses Sanders (later this week?) then more DNC primary voters will move from Sanders (and the rest of the present hangers on) to Warren. There is simply no way that the DNC is going to let an avowed socialist, backed by AOC, become their POTUS nominee.
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And if you extrapolate from his local experience in Indiana, it's not impressive. I agree that Warren will beat out Bernie exactly because she won't go full-bore socialist and she'll get people who want a more moderate candidate. Agree AOC will help seal that.
 
I hope that Biden is done, I never thought that he was a good choice for the Dems, just a strong return to the corporate status quo. I don't think that he's all that exciting.

But we'll see. As I said, I think that the Dems are starting with an advantage for 2020, but it's an advantage they can squander.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Biden's star is fading. He was being sustained entirely myths and fantasies that bore little resemblance to the man. He is also caught in a corruption scandal (not illegality). He stumbled through the debate. I am calling it now -- he's done. How could he possibly come back? He's running out of money because all his donors have maxed out. Done, done, done.

Warren had a decent enough performance last night, but there's a chink in her armor and everyone can see it. She can't throw her full weight behind Medicare For All. She refuses to articulate it in the same way that Bernie does. I would be nervous as a M4A supporter that Warren is all-in.

Prediction #1: Bernie catches up to Warren, and if it comes down to a battle of ideas, Bernie wins pretty handily. This is Bernie's lane. He owns it.

Prediction #2: With Biden on the mat, the corporate wing puts all their remaining eggs into Buttigieg's basket, who has gone full-steam centrist. Klobuchar and Kamala are non-factors.

It will be a three person race, with Bernie having a good shot at getting this. Bernie just sealed up the progressive endorsements. Warren is in the lead, but she's kinda cornered. She can't out-progressive Bernie, and she can't move to the right.

Andrew Yang is a wild card / long shot.
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I agree with this, and Bernie will receive an even bigger boost with the endorsements of Ilhan Omar and AOC.

He is not the candidate I wanted to win, by a long shot, but I will vote for him.

Hate to sound morbid, but I just hope he chooses a good, solid VP.
 
Trump said:
Biden was never a contender.

Joe’s sell by date long expired.
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And yet your man Trump went after him cause he was a-scared of him.
Can't have it both ways there pal.
I laugh in your general direction, all of this corruption for naught.
 
Dans La Lune said:
I was a big Gabbard fan back in 2016. Then I scratched the surface and she's not what you think. In some matters she's very right-wing.
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Yeah, she is a talented politician, but polling shows not enough people care for her.
 
Dem's run a Bernie Warren ticket and Trump pulls a Reagan 84 because the people will ultimately reject being taxed into serfdom in return for "help".
 
Pound4abrown said:
And yet your man Trump went after him cause he was a-scared of him.
Can't have it both ways there pal.
I laugh in your general direction, all of this corruption for naught.
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Joe bragging about getting a prosecutor fired in Ukraine is what caused Joe's problem. Braggart :shrug:
 
Dans La Lune said:
Biden's star is fading. He was being sustained entirely myths and fantasies that bore little resemblance to the man. He is also caught in a corruption scandal (not illegality). He stumbled through the debate. I am calling it now -- he's done. How could he possibly come back? He's running out of money because all his donors have maxed out. Done, done, done.

Warren had a decent enough performance last night, but there's a chink in her armor and everyone can see it. She can't throw her full weight behind Medicare For All. She refuses to articulate it in the same way that Bernie does. I would be nervous as a M4A supporter that Warren is all-in.

Prediction #1: Bernie catches up to Warren, and if it comes down to a battle of ideas, Bernie wins pretty handily. This is Bernie's lane. He owns it.

Prediction #2: With Biden on the mat, the corporate wing puts all their remaining eggs into Buttigieg's basket, who has gone full-steam centrist. Klobuchar and Kamala are non-factors.

It will be a three person race, with Bernie having a good shot at getting this. Bernie just sealed up the progressive endorsements. Warren is in the lead, but she's kinda cornered. She can't out-progressive Bernie, and she can't move to the right.

Andrew Yang is a wild card / long shot.
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Here is the problem with liberals. The far-left team up with the far right. The far left is aways promoting some socialist candidate and attack liberals in the same way the far right does. The far-left said Hillary was corrupt despite no evidence of any actual corruption. Now we have Biden and there is absolutely no evidence of corruption and you buy into it.

This is why we ended up with Donald Trump one of the most corrupt presidents in American history. You guys don't learn.
 
Dans La Lune said:
I am very biased towards Bernie, which is why I'm happy to see this path opening up for him.
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I like Bernie and will vote for him if he is the candidate, however I am afraid a lot of midwest redneck voters may be more willing to vote for a criminal than a socialist...
 
Dans La Lune said:
Biden's star is fading. He was being sustained entirely myths and fantasies that bore little resemblance to the man. He is also caught in a corruption scandal (not illegality). He stumbled through the debate. I am calling it now -- he's done. How could he possibly come back? He's running out of money because all his donors have maxed out. Done, done, done.

Warren had a decent enough performance last night, but there's a chink in her armor and everyone can see it. She can't throw her full weight behind Medicare For All. She refuses to articulate it in the same way that Bernie does. I would be nervous as a M4A supporter that Warren is all-in.

Prediction #1: Bernie catches up to Warren, and if it comes down to a battle of ideas, Bernie wins pretty handily. This is Bernie's lane. He owns it.

Prediction #2: With Biden on the mat, the corporate wing puts all their remaining eggs into Buttigieg's basket, who has gone full-steam centrist. Klobuchar and Kamala are non-factors.

It will be a three person race, with Bernie having a good shot at getting this. Bernie just sealed up the progressive endorsements. Warren is in the lead, but she's kinda cornered. She can't out-progressive Bernie, and she can't move to the right.

Andrew Yang is a wild card / long shot.
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Bernie scares too many dems. Warren is the safer pick to try to beat trump. She is positioned perfectly, just barely to the right of sanders. Crazy enough tot get a Luke warm endorsement from the far left, but not so crazy to scare the anti trump independents to death.
 
haymarket said:
If he wins SC with African American support, it is a pretty good sign that he can repeat that pattern in other states and that would bode well for Biden.
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Regardless of how he wins in SC, if he has sharply declined support everywhere else, that's not going to help him, especially if he loses Iowa, NH and Nevada, and momentum has already built behind one of his competitors; this looks pretty likely, with Warren in the lead in the first two, and within spitting distance per Nevada polls as her trajectory continues to improve and Biden keeps sinking.
 
Simpletruther said:
Bernie scares too many dems. Warren is the safer pick to try to beat trump. She is positioned perfectly, just barely to the right of sanders. Crazy enough tot get a Luke warm endorsement from the far left, but not so crazy to scare the anti trump independents to death.
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Do you think the black vote will line up behind Warren?
 
Trump said:
Do you think any Bernie voters will think twice about supporting Bernie because of his health?

If you really care about someone that just had heart attack would you want them in the most stressful job in the world?
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Well then it becomes all about the VP pick.
 
Trump said:
Joe bragging about getting a prosecutor fired in Ukraine is what caused Joe's problem. Braggart :shrug:
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Yeah, that prosecutor (Shokin) was a "very good" prosecutor according to Trump and his cult. But the facts are the facts.

A senior Ukrainian prosecutor resigned on Monday, calling the office he worked for a “hotbed of corruption”, another blow to government attempts to clean up the judiciary, a crucial step to unlock more Western aid.
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Kasko’s accusation that there was merely a facade of change in the prosecution service is damaging to Poroshenko, who has resisted pressure to fire General Prosecutor Viktor Shokin. Vladislav Kutsenko, an aide to Shokin, dismissed Kasko’s resignation as self-publicity.

But U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt called Kasko “a champion for change”.

“His resignation is a blow to #Ukraine’s reform progress ... #Ukraine deserves a clean judiciary. Will require top-to-bottom rule of law reform to address pervasive corruption + cronyism,” he tweeted.
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Ukrainian prosecutor quits over corruption as government teeters - Reuters

Kasko worked in Shokin's office. He resigned after the famous case of the "diamond prosecutor" where associates of Shokin were busted with diamonds and cash but Shokin dismissed the charges.

How do you guys sleep with yourselves when you know you're perpetuating lies?
 
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SonOfDaedalus said:
Here is the problem with liberals. The far-left team up with the far right. The far left is aways promoting some socialist candidate and attack liberals in the same way the far right does. The far-left said Hillary was corrupt despite no evidence of any actual corruption. Now we have Biden and there is absolutely no evidence of corruption and you buy into it.

This is why we ended up with Donald Trump one of the most corrupt presidents in American history. You guys don't learn.
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First of all, I refuse to subscribe to the absurd notion that supporting candidates who would be considered at best centrist in most of the rest of the developed world is criteria for branding someone 'far left' regardless of political context. The American political frame of reference is wrong and obviously skewed; that's precisely part of the problem.


Second, the corruption Hillary engaged in is the sort that has become normalized and mundane: legal, and fraught with plausible deniability, but present, unethical and prominent nonetheless.

Taking massive paychecks from corporations to do trite speeches, and having the coffers of your charity fill roughly in proportion to the influence you have to offer, with a campaign propelled by and largely dependent on megadonor funding is bad enough certainly. Clinton of course went further: bailing out the DNC Obama vampirized in return for great power over the gatekeeper institution that is fraught with obvious, material and serious conflicts of interest; openly declaring her duplicity in the favour of Wall Street execs behind presumably closed doors by reassuring them she had a 'public and a private position' after a lengthy period of coddling them, saying they're misunderstood and otherwise blowing sunshine up their ass.


Beyond that, and above all else, her policies were garbage compared to Sanders in our view, and of those we might've liked, we couldn't really trust her to follow through on them, especially not versus Bernie. On that alone, she was a no sell; the majority of us would hold our noses to vote for her in the general, but certainly not in the primary.


Lastly, we have Trump as president primarily because Clinton was one of the worst candidates the Dems have ever fielded and her campaign was woefully inept: she was despised almost on par with Trump, she exuded an aura of anti-charisma, inauthenticity and repugnance, her vision was muted, uninspiring and scant, and she neglected key states despite warnings from Sander's campaign after it had begun to work with her. Under her watch, the so-called 'blue wall' that ultimately cost her the election flipped, because she failed to speak to the concerns of those voters in any direct and substantive way, and took their support for granted. To lay the blame at the feet of the 'far left' when Sanders' supporters were more loyal to the party than Clinton's were in 2008, and despite the fact that the majority of those that did abstain or flip didn't have strong ties to the Dem party in the first place, speaks to either a wholesale lack of understanding of what actually occurred then or a blatant and highly partisan willful ignorance.


As per above, there are many legitimate criticisms to be had regarding Clinton; unlike the right, we despise her on the basis of substance and factual flaws and saw in Bernie a vastly better candidate, regardless of whether or not you choose to acknowledge that.
 
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Lovebug said:
That's harsh. I find her well spoken, thoughtful, having her own mind instead of falling in lockstep with the expected mantra.
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Gabbard's great, and is their best bet to beat Trump, so the Democrats hate her.

They're backing Warren, and have been for months.

She's the pick to lose to Trump.
 
Acadia said:
And if you extrapolate from his local experience in Indiana, it's not impressive. I agree that Warren will beat out Bernie exactly because she won't go full-bore socialist and she'll get people who want a more moderate candidate. Agree AOC will help seal that.
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AOC's endorsement of Bernie is the kiss of political death, but it's been Warren for months now - ever since Gabbard kneecapped Harris.
 
3leftsdoo said:
AOC's endorsement of Bernie is the kiss of political death, but it's been Warren for months now - ever since Gabbard kneecapped Harris.
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I have to hand it to Warren. She's campaigned smartly and is working hard to earn her steady increase in the polls.
At least she's earning her front-runner status, unlike Hillary.
 
Surrealistik said:
First of all, I refuse to subscribe to the absurd notion that supporting candidates who would be considered at best centrist in most of the rest of the developed world is criteria for branding someone 'far left' regardless of political context. The American political frame of reference is wrong and obviously skewed; that's precisely part of the problem.

Second, the corruption Hillary engaged in is the sort that has become normalized and mundane: legal, and fraught with plausible deniability, but present, unethical and prominent nonetheless.

Taking massive paychecks from corporations to do trite speeches, and having the coffers of your charity fill roughly in proportion to the influence you have to offer, with a campaign propelled by and largely dependent on megadonor funding is bad enough certainly. Clinton of course went further: bailing out the DNC Obama vampirized in return for great power over the gatekeeper institution that is fraught with obvious, material and serious conflicts of interest; openly declaring her duplicity in the favour of Wall Street execs behind presumably closed doors by reassuring them she had a 'public and a private position' after a lengthy period of coddling them, saying they're misunderstood and otherwise blowing sunshine up their ass.

Beyond that, and above all else, her policies were garbage compared to Sanders in our view, and of those we might've liked, we couldn't really trust her to follow through on them, especially not versus Bernie. On that alone, she was a no sell; the majority of us would hold our noses to vote for her in the general, but certainly not in the primary.

Lastly, we have Trump as president primarily because Clinton was one of the worst candidates the Dems have ever fielded and her campaign was woefully inept: she was despised almost on par with Trump, she exuded an aura of anti-charisma, inauthenticity and repugnance, her vision was muted, uninspiring and scant, and she neglected key states despite warnings from Sander's campaign after it had begun to work with her. Under her watch, the so-called 'blue wall' that ultimately cost her the election flipped, because she failed to speak to the concerns of those voters in any direct and substantive way, and took their support for granted. To lay the blame at the feet of the 'far left' when Sanders' supporters were more loyal to the party than Clinton's were in 2008, and despite the fact that the majority of those that did abstain or flip didn't have strong ties to the Dem party in the first place, speaks to either a wholesale lack of understanding of what actually occurred then or a blatant and highly partisan willful ignorance.

As per above, there are many legitimate criticisms to be had regarding Clinton; unlike the right, we despise her on the basis of substance and factual flaws and saw in Bernie a vastly better candidate, regardless of whether or not you choose to acknowledge that.
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:applaud:applaud:applaud:applaud:applaud
 
3leftsdoo said:
Gabbard's great, and is their best bet to beat Trump, so the Democrats hate her.

They're backing Warren, and have been for months.

She's the pick to lose to Trump.
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Going to be honest.

Gabbard completely lost me with her rejection of key and pillar progressive policies like Medicare for All. She is utterly dead to me now, and it gives me no pleasure to say this.

3leftsdoo said:
AOC's endorsement of Bernie is the kiss of political death, but it's been Warren for months now - ever since Gabbard kneecapped Harris.
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Total misreading. If AOC's endorsement went to Warren, as it conceivably could have, _that_ would have been the kiss of death, encouraging his base to jump ship.
 
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