Following the money

One must ask oneself, with the latest Syrian withdrawal, who benefits?

Russia and Turkey ( not to mention Isis and Iran ).



Why has Trump sided with dictators? He sides with Duterte, Erdogen, the Saudis, and Putin over our allies and our intel staff.


What do they all have in common with Trump?


Trump businesses in those countries. As for Russia, Trump wants a tower in Moscow, and has been propped up by Putin's oligarchs for years.


Just doin' the math.



It's the only thing that makes sense, it's abundantly clear, And, when he says things that counter this narrative, it's always on script, a script that he is incapable of writing.


The evidence is clear, Trump's foreign policy is not America's foreign policy, it is his own private foreign policy. That has always been true, and those who know him know that he cannot be persuaded once he makes up his mind. All of the "adults in the room" , Tillis, McMasters, Kelly, Sessions, have all left. The only ones that remain are sycophants ( the one exception, the acting DNI and let's see Trump fire that guy, former admiral, ex SEAL ).

The greatest beneficiaries were the (50?) US military personnel taken out the way of 15K Turkish troops headed their way. Putting a monetary value on that (priceless?) benefit is hard to do.

ttwtt78640 said:

The greatest beneficiaries were the (50?) US military personnel taken out the way of 15K Turkish troops headed their way. Putting a monetary value on that (priceless?) benefit is hard to do.

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That has nothing to do with Trump basically empowering Putin and Assad. There is a valid question regarding why he seems to act in ways that benefit Putin.

OscarLevant said:

Why has Trump sided with dictators?

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Also there's the little matter known as the peepee tape.

SonOfDaedalus said:

That has nothing to do with Trump basically empowering Putin and Assad. There is a valid question regarding why he seems to act in ways that benefit Putin.

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There is also a valid reason for getting those US military personnel out of the way of a Turkish invasion force. Better to have a headline stating "Turkish military forces commit war crimes in Syria" than "50 US military advisors killed during Turkish military invasion Syria" after Trump was told that it was coming.

SonOfDaedalus said:

That has nothing to do with Trump basically empowering Putin and Assad. There is a valid question regarding why he seems to act in ways that benefit Putin.

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Hmm,

So, he follows his declared policy of pulling out of places where we should never have been in the first place at a waste of American dead and injured, and trillions of dollars better spent at home. Places where our occupation also creates more animosity towards our nation and with little to no benefit to our citizens.

Just because some other international actor(s) chooses to see a benefit in engaging in the chaos, then how is that a problem for us?

How many times do I have to state, I do not believe the USA should be the world's policeman. :coffeepap:

Captain Adverse said:

How many times do I have to state, I do not believe the USA should be the world's policeman. :coffeepap:

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I'm assuming you posted your disapproval of Trump sending troops to SA, then?

Geoist said:

I'm assuming you posted your disapproval of Trump sending troops to SA, then?

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I don't believe we should be sending troops anywhere. Not unless per treaty obligations (like NATO or UN requirements) or a current state of war (however in abeyance like Korea where no peace has yet been signed).

So no, I don't approve of troops being stationed in SA. Will that act change my vote in 2020? Not by itself.

Deflection asked and answered. :coffeepap:

OscarLevant said:

One must ask oneself, with the latest Syrian withdrawal, who benefits?

Russia and Turkey ( not to mention Isis and Iran ).
Why has Trump sided with dictators? He sides with Duterte, Erdogen, the Saudis, and Putin over our allies and our intel staff.
What do they all have in common with Trump?
Trump businesses in those countries. As for Russia, Trump wants a tower in Moscow, and has been propped up by Putin's oligarchs for years.
Just doin' the math.
It's the only thing that makes sense, it's abundantly clear, And, when he says things that counter this narrative, it's always on script, a script that he is incapable of writing.
The evidence is clear, Trump's foreign policy is not America's foreign policy, it is his own private foreign policy. That has always been true, and those who know him know that he cannot be persuaded once he makes up his mind. All of the "adults in the room" , Tillis, McMasters, Kelly, Sessions, have all left. The only ones that remain are sycophants ( the one exception, the acting DNI and let's see Trump fire that guy, former admiral, ex SEAL ).

Click to expand...

Bill Clinton got hundreds of thousands of dollars per speech from Putin in Moscow. Hillary took in hundreds of millions of dollars from foreigners, including government leaders of enemies of America, while she was SOS. Yes, let's follow the money.

Captain Adverse said:

I don't believe we should be sending troops anywhere. Not unless per treaty obligations (like NATO or UN requirements) or a current state of war (however in abeyance like Korea where no peace has yet been signed). So no, I don't approve of troops being stationed in SA. Will that act change my vote in 2020? Not by itself.

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Trump is pulling out for his buddy Erdogan and sending troops to SA for his buddy MBS. Trump doesn't care about your non-interventionist idealism. Trump only cares for Trump.

Deflection asked and answered. :coffeepap:

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You do realize always using that coffee emoji just makes your posts drip arrogance/pretension...

ttwtt78640 said:

There is also a valid reason for getting those US military personnel out of the way of a Turkish invasion force.

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No invasion if the personnel were still there.

Geoist said:

Trump is pulling out for his buddy Erdogan and sending troops to SA for his buddy MBS. Trump doesn't care about your non-interventionist idealism. Trump only cares for Trump.

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A perfect example of the kinds of responses which inhibit those of us who generally support the Administration if and when we do point out an issue of disagreement.

Geoist said:

You do realize always using that coffee emoji just makes your posts drip arrogance/pretension...

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As opposed to what?

The arrogance, condescension, and self-righteousness of those on your side of the aisle who use every dirty trick in the arsenal of moral panic to bully people into your point of view?

It's my "emoji" that causes you concern? :roll:

Tagline time. :coffeepap:

OscarLevant said:

One must ask oneself, with the latest Syrian withdrawal, who benefits?

Russia and Turkey ( not to mention Isis and Iran ).



Why has Trump sided with dictators? He sides with Duterte, Erdogen, the Saudis, and Putin over our allies and our intel staff.


What do they all have in common with Trump?


Trump businesses in those countries. As for Russia, Trump wants a tower in Moscow, and has been propped up by Putin's oligarchs for years.


Just doin' the math.



It's the only thing that makes sense, it's abundantly clear, And, when he says things that counter this narrative, it's always on script, a script that he is incapable of writing.


The evidence is clear, Trump's foreign policy is not America's foreign policy, it is his own private foreign policy. That has always been true, and those who know him know that he cannot be persuaded once he makes up his mind. All of the "adults in the room" , Tillis, McMasters, Kelly, Sessions, have all left. The only ones that remain are sycophants ( the one exception, the acting DNI and let's see Trump fire that guy, former admiral, ex SEAL ).

Click to expand...

Right, that makes sense but Biden selling his office for personal family enrichment is a real stretch.:mrgreen: You guys are an embarrassment to yourselves.

Captain Adverse said:

Hmm,

So, he follows his declared policy of pulling out of places where we should never have been in the first place at a waste of American dead and injured, and trillions of dollars better spent at home. Places where our occupation also creates more animosity towards our nation and with little to no benefit to our citizens.

Just because some other international actor(s) chooses to see a benefit in engaging in the chaos, then how is that a problem for us?

How many times do I have to state, I do not believe the USA should be the world's policeman. :coffeepap:

Click to expand...

I love how Republicans have reversed themselves. I remember Obama being blamed not for pulling out of Iraq but simply for abiding by the agreement Bush made about when we would withdraw and abiding by the wishes of the Iraqis.

I don't want to be World police either. Neither did Obama. But Obama handled it responsibly. Trump is doing it recklessly.

I don't think we needed to stab the Kurds in back to reduce our involvement. Nobody thinks this makes any sense except blind Trump cultists.

It just seems you're being willfully blind to how Trump's actions line up with Putin's wishes.

And if Trump wants to reduce our involvement, why do we need to spend even more money on our already bloated military budget? Why do we need more nuclear weapons than the thousands we already have?

And if he wants to reduce our involvement in the ME, why side with Israel on the hot button Jerusalem issue? Why send troops to Saudi Arabia? Why get involved in the Saudi / Yemen war?

You don't ask enough questions if you think Trump's behavior makes any sense.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I love how Republicans have reversed themselves...

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How many times do I have to repeat, I am not a "Republican."

SonOfDaedalus said:

...And if he wants to reduce our involvement in the ME, why side with Israel on the hot button Jerusalem issue? Why send troops to Saudi Arabia? Why get involved in the Saudi / Yemen war?

You don't ask enough questions if you think Trump's behavior makes any sense.

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Why side with Israel? For the same reason many in my generation do. The belief that Jews have a right to the Nation of Israel. A right based on the almost unique example of a people dispersed who won back their lands after a horrible period of tribulation.

How to deal with the Palestinians? I don't know. But my support for the existence of Israel is as firm as Trump's.

Geoist said:

No invasion if the personnel were still there.

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According to who?

veritas1 said:

Right, that makes sense but Biden selling his office for personal family enrichment is a real stretch.:mrgreen: You guys are an embarrassment to yourselves.

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There is no evidence Joe Biden did that. His son traded off his daddy's name and compare that sin to the many sins of the Trump Administration. Ivanka continues to trade off her daddy's name while he's in office while he's negotiating with China securing patents that are worth millions and Biden has promised but hunter will never do it again there's where we stand

Trump and his administration of criminals and cronies is a National Disgrace and he is betraying America

marke said:

Bill Clinton got hundreds of thousands of dollars per speech from Putin in Moscow. Hillary took in hundreds of millions of dollars from foreigners, including government leaders of enemies of America, while she was SOS. Yes, let's follow the money.

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All presidents get money for speeches after they leave office. The time to follow the money is while they are in office wake the **** up

Hillary received not one nickel personally the Clinton Foundation receives funds from foreigners all over the world routinely and employs 2,000 people worldwide compare that to Trump paper Foundation which was shut down due to illegal activity wake the **** up

OscarLevant said:

All presidents get money for speeches after they leave office. The time to follow the money is while they are in office wake the **** up

Hillary received not one nickel personally the Clinton Foundation receives funds from foreigners all over the world routinely and employs 2,000 people worldwide compare that to Trump paper Foundation which was shut down due to illegal activity wake the **** up

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I don't believe the Hillary Foreign Money Foundation is as pure and noble as you claim. Let's take a look at the books. Maybe Trump would agree to release his tax returns if Hillary would release her accounting records for the family foundation.

marke said:

I don't believe the Hillary Foreign Money Foundation is as pure and noble as you claim. Let's take a look at the books. Maybe Trump would agree to release his tax returns if Hillary would release her accounting records for the family foundation.

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You don't believe...... you and right wingers love to sneer at the Clinton Foundation, with nary a fact in your quiver to shoot arrows with.


I go with evidence. You make a claim about someone, back it up, or preface it "imo".


FYI, non profits are audited, rated, etc. The Clinton Foundation:

Charity Navigator - Rating for The Clinton Foundation



The CF employs over 2000 people worldwide doing various charitable works.


The Trump foundation employees no one, is a paper org only, and was shut down for "illegal Activity" and is still under investigation by NY AG.


Donald J. Trump Foundation - Wikipedia


Failure to maintain proper governance
Solicitation of donations without a license
Mishandling of funds raised for veteran's causes
Coordinating foundation grants with Trump's presidential campaign
Grants to the National Museum of Catholic Art and Library
Using Trump Foundation money to settle Trump Organization legal disputes
Donation to Florida attorney general Pam Bondi
Grants allegedly made for political purposes
Partial payment of an assessment owed by the Plaza Hotel
Purchasing goods and services for personal or business benefit with foundation money
Diverting business or personal income to the foundation as donations
Granting money to charities that rented Trump Organization facilities
Trump taking personal credit for donations made using foundation money
Making grants to other private foundations without fulfilling IRS "expenditure responsibility" rules

But, in your limited and narrow world view, you haven't even investigated Trump, it's always Hillary.

Jeezus the right wingers are a sorry bunch.

ttwtt78640 said:

The greatest beneficiaries were the (50?) US military personnel taken out the way of 15K Turkish troops headed their way. Putting a monetary value on that (priceless?) benefit is hard to do.

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Are you suggesting the Turks were going to attack US forces?

marke said:

Bill Clinton got hundreds of thousands of dollars per speech from Putin in Moscow. Hillary took in hundreds of millions of dollars from foreigners, including government leaders of enemies of America, while she was SOS. Yes, let's follow the money.

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You are talking to people that literally opposed the same position they now support a decade ago.

At least people like Lindsey Graham are consistent. Stay in Iraq, Stay in Syria, send more troops, rinse and repeat.

Democrats like Pelosi are being exposed. They support/oppose war based on political expediency.

JMR said:

Are you suggesting the Turks were going to attack US forces?

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What we do know is that they were committing terrorist attacks in Turkey.

Democrats have an obsession with regime change in Syria. The fact is Bashar al-Assad is as much of a threat to the U.S as Saddam Hussein (probably even less).

Bucky said:

What we do know is that they were committing terrorist attacks in Turkey.

Democrats have an obsession with regime change in Syria. The fact is Bashar al-Assad is as much of a threat to the U.S as Saddam Hussein (probably even less).

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The Turks would never have made this move if Trump had not agreed to clear the way. It is disgraceful, and he will be held to account for this.

JMR said:

The Turks would never have made this move if Trump had not agreed to clear the way. It is disgraceful, and he will be held to account for this.

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Just like Bush and Dick Cheney were held accountable for Iraq?

:lamo

What about Henry Kessinger?

:lamo:lamo

So it seems we do not hold accountable for those that start wars and hold accountable for those that do the opposite?

Ya, that makes sense.