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Thread: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

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    Re: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    This thread is not about the partisan ruminations of someone who wants to solely blame one side of the equation here. Unlike you, I disagree with the court ruling where the society and the people have domain. We the people decide what is socially acceptable, not 9 activist clowns appointed by presidents and with no oversight. You simply want to blame democrats and leftists; go do that somewhere else; it's off topic.
    The irony is cascading from your post.

    This Flame/Bait/Troll thread is pathetic.
    “When you talk about the firm that produced the Steele reporting, the name of the firm that produced that was Fusion GPS. Is that correct?”

    “I’m not familiar with that,” Robert Mueller answered.

  2. #22
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    Re: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    ....Judicial review. The SCOTUS was -never- meant to be the absurd power house that it is, usurping the power of both the legislative and executive branches of government. As an acolyte of Jefferson, I disagree entirely with the notion of an activist court, and even oppose the Roe v. Wade ruling itself, along with the 1803 Marbury v. Madison ruling that enabled the court to become the sole arbiter of power this country has, by voting for itself to have such extreme power.

    Dredd Scott, Roe, Citizens United, hell, even Brown v. Board of Edu, Buckley v. Valeo, etc.

    All of these cases and arbitrary rulings were -unnecessary- because the social changes in the nation had already decided the fate of these issues. No one thought money is free speech; this means some folks have more speech than others. No one wanted to continue segregation save southern autocrats - overwhelmingly the public did and still does support abortion.

    The SCOTUS has usurped the freedom and will of the people. I almost never agree with the right wing, but they are correct about activism among the Justices. The issue with the right is that they have figured out the court has this authority and has used it to rule in favor of corporate power for decades now.

    So, change my mind. Nothing can be instituted as law withought these 9 unelected arbiters agreeing it is "constitutional."

    This was never how the court was envisioned by our founders.
    Hmmm...

    One must ask, what is the purpose of a Court? It is to arbitrate the Law.

    What is the supreme law of the USA? The Constitution.

    What branch of government was set up to arbitrate the law of the land? The Supreme Court.

    This is how Marbury v. Madison was raised, and the idea of Judicial Review came about.

    Congress makes laws, the President enforces laws, and the Judiciary (SCOTUS) arbitrates those laws and actions.

    This works, otherwise we would have no way to seek justice.

    If the people who created the Constitution didn't want it to work this way, don't you think that immediately after Marbury they would have amended the Constitution?
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 10-14-19 at 10:33 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  3. #23
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    Re: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Hmmm...

    One must ask, what is the purpose of a Court? It is to arbitrate the Law.

    What is the supreme law of the USA? The Constitution.

    What branch of government was set up to arbitrate the law of the land? The Supreme Court.

    This is how Marbury v. Madison was raised, and the idea of Judicial Review came about.

    Congress makes laws, the President enforces laws, and the SCOTUS arbitrates those laws and actions.

    This works, otherwise we would have no way to seek justice.
    Wrong. Our way to seek justice is to oust legislators and presidents who do not do the will of the people. Remember, the court was -never- intended to do this; Jefferson feared a despotic tyranny of a court system which simply decides what a constitution means, and this is entirely too fickle; one appointed court can simply undo things, no matter the will of the people or their elected representatives.

    Essentially, the court can lock us into a legal stance from decades ago, ignoring the changes in the world, society, culture, what have you.

    Tell me, who has oversight of the scotus? Which court/authority can tell the scotus they're wrong? With lifetime appointments, another contoversial topic, who gets to say to them their interpretation is incorrect?
    #BDS

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    Re: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    ....Judicial review. The SCOTUS was -never- meant to be the absurd power house that it is, usurping the power of both the legislative and executive branches of government. As an acolyte of Jefferson, I disagree entirely with the notion of an activist court, and even oppose the Roe v. Wade ruling itself, along with the 1803 Marbury v. Madison ruling that enabled the court to become the sole arbiter of power this country has, by voting for itself to have such extreme power.

    Dredd Scott, Roe, Citizens United, hell, even Brown v. Board of Edu, Buckley v. Valeo, etc.

    All of these cases and arbitrary rulings were -unnecessary- because the social changes in the nation had already decided the fate of these issues. No one thought money is free speech; this means some folks have more speech than others. No one wanted to continue segregation save southern autocrats - overwhelmingly the public did and still does support abortion.

    The SCOTUS has usurped the freedom and will of the people. I almost never agree with the right wing, but they are correct about activism among the Justices. The issue with the right is that they have figured out the court has this authority and has used it to rule in favor of corporate power for decades now.

    So, change my mind. Nothing can be instituted as law withought these 9 unelected arbiters agreeing it is "constitutional."

    This was never how the court was envisioned by our founders.
    Yeah, well the problem is that if the legislative branch passes a law some people don't like, they are always going to try to see if they can overturn it by challenging it in court. That's why all those cases ended up there. It turns out sometimes it IS unconstitutional.

    How else would you propose such situations be handled?

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    Re: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Wrong. Our way to seek justice is to oust legislators and presidents who do not do the will of the people. Remember, the court was -never- intended to do this; Jefferson feared a despotic tyranny of a court system which simply decides what a constitution means, and this is entirely too fickle; one appointed court can simply undo things, no matter the will of the people or their elected representatives.

    Essentially, the court can lock us into a legal stance from decades ago, ignoring the changes in the world, society, culture, what have you.

    Tell me, who has oversight of the scotus? Which court/authority can tell the scotus they're wrong? With lifetime appointments, another contoversial topic, who gets to say to them their interpretation is incorrect?
    Through the kinds of presidents the people elect who appoint these judges? Or maybe the congress which can refuse to endorse them?

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    Re: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Tell me, who has oversight of the scotus? Which court/authority can tell the scotus they're wrong? With lifetime appointments, another contoversial topic, who gets to say to them their interpretation is incorrect?
    Congress has the power to impeach a Justice, and there are methods to amend the laws to address judicial rulings. Even the Constitution can be amended, as it has 27 times already.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  7. #27
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    Re: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    ....Judicial review. The SCOTUS was -never- meant to be the absurd power house that it is, usurping the power of both the legislative and executive branches of government. As an acolyte of Jefferson, I disagree entirely with the notion of an activist court, and even oppose the Roe v. Wade ruling itself, along with the 1803 Marbury v. Madison ruling that enabled the court to become the sole arbiter of power this country has, by voting for itself to have such extreme power.

    Dredd Scott, Roe, Citizens United, hell, even Brown v. Board of Edu, Buckley v. Valeo, etc.

    All of these cases and arbitrary rulings were -unnecessary- because the social changes in the nation had already decided the fate of these issues. No one thought money is free speech; this means some folks have more speech than others. No one wanted to continue segregation save southern autocrats - overwhelmingly the public did and still does support abortion.

    The SCOTUS has usurped the freedom and will of the people. I almost never agree with the right wing, but they are correct about activism among the Justices. The issue with the right is that they have figured out the court has this authority and has used it to rule in favor of corporate power for decades now.

    So, change my mind. Nothing can be instituted as law withought these 9 unelected arbiters agreeing it is "constitutional."

    This was never how the court was envisioned by our founders.
    That is a well thought out post, but I would like to ask you what you think the "Judicial Power" is? What were the founders talking about when they mention "the Judicial power" in Section 1 of Article III?

    Is it meant to be a rubber stamp for the other 2 branches? Is it to sit by passively and accept without comment the actions of domestic enemies of the USC?

  8. #28
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    Re: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    Yeah, well the problem is that if the legislative branch passes a law some people don't like, they are always going to try to see if they can overturn it by challenging it in court. That's why all those cases ended up there. It turns out sometimes it IS unconstitutional.

    How else would you propose such situations be handled?
    How do you think the founders intended for it to be handled?

    For the voters to oust the representatives who deny their will. In the case of states, if Alabama outlaws abortion, don't live there. It's relatively simple.
    #BDS

    No forgiveness here remains.

  9. #29
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    Re: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Congress has the power to impeach a Justice, and there are methods to amend the laws to address judicial rulings. Even the Constitution can be amended, as it has 27 times already.
    Yes, but you can't impeach a justice for "faithfully interpreting the constitution." The constitution can be amended, which is the remedy. Right now, no one amends the constitution, and the courts have become the supreme arbiter of our way of life, which was never intended to be so.
    #BDS

    No forgiveness here remains.

  10. #30
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    Re: The Biggest Issue We Face as a Country is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    This thread is not about the partisan ruminations of someone who wants to solely blame one side of the equation here. Unlike you, I disagree with the court ruling where the society and the people have domain. We the people decide what is socially acceptable, not 9 activist clowns appointed by presidents and with no oversight. You simply want to blame democrats and leftists; go do that somewhere else; it's off topic.
    dont know the exact hypothetical, but maybe those 9 judges make that ruling because they think the legislature is overstepping their bounds

    maybe it needs to be a constitional amendent and not a law?

    just because you dont like rulings those judges make, doesnt mean they arent the right rulings
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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