Why do CEO's make som much?

Ikari said:

If you think it's some anecdote, then you've never really paid attention.

A Short History of Golden Parachutes

But whatever you need to defend Corporate-Capitalism. I'd rather we return to some more free-market principles.

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You changed the goalpost. YOu said CEO's raided pension fund to pay for them Nothing in the areicle says that.

In fact event the two mentioned in the article, which are surely outliers , represent a drop in the bucket for those companies, so it's not liklely they raided any pension fund.

Ikari said:

Worker's salary's haven't risen that much, when inflation and cost of living adjustments are made, no. And CEOs have been known to raid pensions, cut retirement, gut employment to fuel their golden parachutes. Wealth has been concentrating into the top 0.1%, this is just a fact.

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It is also a fact that congress, whether in the hands of demorats or republicants, has helped this to happen and to remain so. Folks complain about the federal income tax (FIT) code with its special (lower) tax rates for capital gains, its flat rate for all business income (taxing a taco truck and Walmart at the same rate) and its many "loopholes" yet re-elect over 90% the congress critters who created that mess and simply refuse to change it.

There were no "Trump tax cuts" - those changes to the FIT code were acts of congress simply signed into law by Trump. Even Obama kept 98.6% of the "Bush tax cuts" (did that make them into the "Obama tax cuts"?), raising rates for only "the earned" income of the top 1.4% a bit (yet keeping all of the other "special" perks for the uber rich).

Ikari said:

Capitalist models typically have rich people, this is true. But Corporate-Capitalism is top-heavy. Free-market produces a bigger, more robust middle class.

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Seems like the workers at these Corporate-Capitalist hellholes are doing quite wel.

In the research, the government found that 51.6% of private sector workers are employed by large enterprises with 500 employees or more and 48.4% work for smaller ones.

The average pay per employee for very small business with 20 employees or less was $36,912, according to the research. For small firms with 20 to 99 employees, it was $40,417. At medium-sized firms it was $44,916. And at large companies it was $52,554. Pay for senior level employees would likely be significantly higher.
Do Big Companies Pay More Than Small? - Ivy Exec Blog

You maybe should quit while you're behind

ttwtt78640 said:

It is also a fact that congress, whether in the hands of demorats or republicants, has helped this to happen and to remain so. Folks complain about the federal income tax (FIT) code with its special (lower) tax rates for capital gains, its flat rate for all business income (taxing a taco truck and Walmart at the same rate) and its many "loopholes" yet re-elect over 90% the congress critters who created that mess and simply refuse to change it.

There were no "Trump tax cuts" - those changes to the FIT code were acts of congress simply signed into law by Trump. Even Obama kept 98.6% of the "Bush tax cuts" (did that make them into the "Obama tax cuts"?), raising rates for only "the earned" income of the top 1.4% a bit (yet keeping all of the other "special" perks for the uber rich).

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I agree with you that this is all done with full cooperation of the Republocrats. It's one reason I don't really distinguish between R and D, since they work very similarly in the end. And also why I call our system Corporate-Capitalism. It's the mixture of the Corporate Entity and the State to pick winners.

I don't vote for those congress critters, I vote Libertarian. But I don't call our system free-market. It's completely controlled and winners are decided by who gives the most to the ruling Republocrat Party.

KLATTU said:

Seems like the workers at these Corporate-Capitalist hellholes are doing quite wel.

In the research, the government found that 51.6% of private sector workers are employed by large enterprises with 500 employees or more and 48.4% work for smaller ones.

The average pay per employee for very small business with 20 employees or less was $36,912, according to the research. For small firms with 20 to 99 employees, it was $40,417. At medium-sized firms it was $44,916. And at large companies it was $52,554. Pay for senior level employees would likely be significantly higher.
Do Big Companies Pay More Than Small? - Ivy Exec Blog

You maybe should quit while you're behind

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52k may work for a two-income household, lol.

Who said that bigger companies don't pay more? That doesn't go against my point that Corporate-Capitalism is a top-heavy system wherein Free-Market will produce a bigger, more robust middle class. Single income households used to be the standard, but can no longer be. 50K is lower-middle class and given the rise in costs of living isn't a great salary.

Wealth is concentrating in the top 0.1%, our middle class is shrinking, and CEOs being paid so much more and getting paid out for scandals, freezing out pensions, etc. are a symptom of this Corporate-Capitalism model.

Renae said:

That's because our education system has terribly failed us and uneducated people are highly vulnerable to emotional arguments.

What, Bullseyelgcs, is the purpose of a business?

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The purpose of a business is to make money. Who said or even implied it wasnt?

Now you answer one.....

Elon Musk isnt slapping together Falcon X rockets and Teslas in his garage by hand, right? So without the people doing the work, all you have is a guy with a ****load of money and and an idea, right?

So the question is, whats the missing ingredient in the profit creation equation?

Right now, here is what you look like:

tres borrachos said:

What does this stupid wall of derp have to do with your racist comment which was not only racist, but also a lie?
God damns all liars to Hell. Remember that, unless you want to roast marshmallows with Sarah Sanders and Donald Trump for eternity.

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According to what is said publicly about Franklin Raines in Wikipedia and other sources, Raines made over 90 million dollars as Fannie Mae CEO from 1999 to 2004, when he was ousted for fraud. He was not charged in the crime which ended up costing American taxpayers nearly a third of a trillion dollars when Fannie Mae had to be bailed out after the 2008 Wall Street collapse.

According to Judicial Watch which obtained records in the case, Franklin Raines was given a $240 million golden parachute when he 'retired'. The government did not sue Franklin Raines for reimbursement like it did from other CEOs of other financial institutions caught up in the collapse. The government paid Raines' legal bills, something it did not do for other CEOs. Granted, Raines was ousted several years before the 2008 collapse so attention was diverted from the fact that he made out like a bandit after being found guilty of cooking the books. He paid nearly $25 million in fines and restitution, the most of which was paid in practically worthless Fannie Mae stock for which the government was paid less than $2 million when it was sold.

There is no doubt that the out-of-control risky mortgage lending by Fannie Mae and other institutions were the primary reason Wall Street collapsed in 2008.

Craig234 said:

CEO's make so much because they can: they have the power to game the system, and they do. They also do because taxes have been lowered so much on them; it used to make more sense to put more money back into the company.

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Your lack of understanding is stunning.

CEOs salaries are paid by boards because it is deemed they bring that much value to the table.

I get it...you struggle to see past your whole "WAH...ITS NOT FAIR!!! THEYS STEALIN MUH PENNIES!!!" bull****. OK...lets try this.

Why do you think the CEOs of non profits get paid mega millions??

RealityNow said:

Stop Deflecting!!! Geez... Do you understand in the least bit what the topic of the thread is? since you don't, let me help you out.... "It's about the inequity between the worker's pay and the Executive Compensations".

Tell us how your claim of an Apple and Grapefruit being the same works?

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so an actor that makes 20 Million a movie vs the cameraman or the gaffer makes 17.50 an hour?

the fact is, camermen and Gaffers are easy to find and the best work for that much. Same with guys running a machine. A guy who can run General Electric profitably, much harder to find

KLATTU said:

So waht? We are economically superior to all those countries so it would make sense for those other countries to copy us, not the other way around.

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You got to be joking... Do you even know what America's Debt is??? Geez!!!
The U.S. debt to China is $1.11 trillion as of May 2019. That's 27% of the $4.1 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $22 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people (you and me) or by the U.S. government itself (you and me).

_ Debt to GDP is 106.10% Then add in the Unfunded Liabilities

$240,000 – The Amount Each American Owns of US Debt and Unfunded Obligations

While you guys patronize the CEO's unaware of the varied types of Government Investment and Grants and Contracts these companies get of your tax dollars, and they distribute that to the CEO's like free bubble gum. (Not all CEO are driven by such greed and ego, its quite likely, that number is far smaller than we may know).

It exist because for the past tax give away to the wealthy.... debt increased in direct relation to lowered Corporate Taxes, as Corporate Taxes Fell, so did America's Economy Fall in parallel, while the economy fell, the infrastructure declined in parallel.. Communities fall apart and family units under the varying elements involved in economic decline has seen the divorce rate skyrocket, family violence go to astronomical levels, and kids killing kids, because they can't be popular and have a fictional claim of popularity status among other kids.

Greed has always bred such invocations of savagery, and people seem to adopt the elements of savagery, because its so widespread and overly saturated, until its become a feast of the beast ,, invoking savagery in anything and upon everything it touches.

I think you should give the financial information services a few minutes of your time... you might find the enhancement and increased pace of alliances among nation is moving, and since Trump screwed the Kurdish in the way he did... These new alliance can and will find means to do their business without need of utilizing the American Green Back (U.S. Dollars)... Only then will some be awakened... some will continue in thei denial and overly exaggerated bluster... Its not that we should not be proud of America, but we can't afford to be so with Haughtiness of vain ego driven fantasy elation either.

VanceMack said:

Your lack of understanding is stunning.

CEOs salaries are paid by boards because it is deemed they bring that much value to the table.

I get it...you struggle to see past your whole "WAH...ITS NOT FAIR!!! THEYS STEALIN MUH PENNIES!!!" bull****. OK...lets try this.

Why do you think the CEOs of non profits get paid mega millions??

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John Smale ended up being CEO of Proctor and God (as we call it in Cincinnati). As a young brand manager, he attended every Dental conference he could-pushing P&Gs CREST toothpaste. The ADA endorsed that toothpaste. That made P&G millions upon millions of dollars. Guys like him are few and far between.

John G. Smale - Wikipedia

RealityNow said:

You got to be joking... Do you even know what America's Debt is??? Geez!!!
The U.S. debt to China is $1.11 trillion as of May 2019. That's 27% of the $4.1 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $22 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people (you and me) or by the U.S. government itself (you and me).

_ Debt to GDP is 106.10% Then add in the Unfunded Liabilities

$240,000 – The Amount Each American Owns of US Debt and Unfunded Obligations

While you guys patronize the CEO's unaware of the varied types of Government Investment and Grants and Contracts these companies get of your tax dollars, and they distribute that to the CEO's like free bubble gum. (Not all CEO are driven by such greed and ego, its quite likely, that number is far smaller than we may know).

It exist because for the past tax give away to the wealthy.... debt increased in direct relation to lowered Corporate Taxes, as Corporate Taxes Fell, so did America's Economy Fall in parallel, while the economy fell, the infrastructure declined in parallel.. Communities fall apart and family units under the varying elements involved in economic decline has seen the divorce rate skyrocket, family violence go to astronomical levels, and kids killing kids, because they can't be popular and have a fictional claim of popularity status among other kids.

Greed has always bred such invocations of savagery, and people seem to adopt the elements of savagery, because its so widespread and overly saturated, until its become a feast of the beast ,, invoking savagery in anything and upon everything it touches.

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this brilliant diatribe would be more efffectively delivered
atop a milk crate with a bullhorn in Central Park. Complete with a " GREED SUCKS" sign.

LAFFRIOT

TurtleDude said:

John Smale ended up being CEO of Proctor and God (as we call it in Cincinnati). As a young brand manager, he attended every Dental conference he could-pushing P&Gs CREST toothpaste. The ADA endorsed that toothpaste. That made P&G millions upon millions of dollars. Guys like him are few and far between.

John G. Smale - Wikipedia

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Oh please, without the guy who fills the toothpaste into tubes, P& G would go out of business!!
LAFFFriot

TurtleDude said:

so an actor that makes 20 Million a movie vs the cameraman or the gaffer makes 17.50 an hour?

the fact is, camermen and Gaffers are easy to find and the best work for that much. Same with guys running a machine. A guy who can run General Electric profitably, much harder to find

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Didn't GE just freeze its pension plan because its in so much debt?

lol

Yeah, that CEO is earning their keep, eh?

Ikari said:

Didn't GE just freeze its pension plan because its in so much debt?

lol

Yeah, that CEO is earning their keep, eh?

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don't know-we sold our shares in GE a while back

TurtleDude said:

don't know-we sold our shares in GE a while back

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Good plan cause GE is in trouble. And they did just freeze their pension plan. So it's just Corporate throwing their employees under the bus because they didn't manage the company and adapt well.

There are certainly very good CEOs out there that add profitability to the company, perhaps not even at the cost of the workers. But there's also the CEOs that run things into the ground, grab their golden parachutes, and get out.

Ikari said:

Good plan cause GE is in trouble. And they did just freeze their pension plan. So it's just Corporate throwing their employees under the bus because they didn't manage the company and adapt well.

There are certainly very good CEOs out there that add profitability to the company, perhaps not even at the cost of the workers. But there's also the CEOs that run things into the ground, grab their golden parachutes, and get out.

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there is nothing to dispute in that comment.

TurtleDude said:

John Smale ended up being CEO of Proctor and God (as we call it in Cincinnati). As a young brand manager, he attended every Dental conference he could-pushing P&Gs CREST toothpaste. The ADA endorsed that toothpaste. That made P&G millions upon millions of dollars. Guys like him are few and far between.

John G. Smale - Wikipedia

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Its like watching children struggling with chalk tic tac toe talking **** about 3D Chess.

I posted the salaries of some of the top CEOs and it completely destroys the whole "5 rich old white men stealing your pennies" bull****. People should understand that CEOs that are paid superstar salaries are there because of the money they bring in to investors...which in turn keeps the company healthy...but has very little to do with the salaries or lives of day to day employees. Similarly...it may look insane to pay someone like Ted A. Beattie $3,394,434 a year as the pres and CEO of Shedd Aquarium...but at the same time he is the primary driver for the institution bringing in 65 million in charitable donations, or to pay John Miller 3.2 million...until you realize that on top of the good the organization does he also presided over annual contributions to Goodwill of 10.5 million.

Thats why some CEOs get paid obscenely high amounts. And if people have 401ks they ought to just have the grace to say "thank you".

Ikari said:

Didn't GE just freeze its pension plan because its in so much debt?

lol

Yeah, that CEO is earning their keep, eh?

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And that may be a smart move.
But it may not be and they , they will dump him, as they have before.

And you can bet they will hire a guy with a good track record and pay him big bucks.

That's how it works.

KLATTU said:

YEah that's how capitalism works. People get rich if say , they figure out a way to let consumers shop on line or design a fancy phone.So what>

Bezos and Jobs getting rich didn't make anybody worse off. In fact just the opposite.

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Why is everything a zero sum game with you people? You act like Peter had to rob Paul in order for Paul to be angry that off of his work, Peter has gotten substantially better off that Paul has for his own work. That simply isnt true.

Paul can be just as upset that compared to last year, tge two of them made 25% more money, and Peter gave himself an 18% raise and Paul got 2.5%. Im in no way implying that if Peter owns the company he should be paying Paul what he makes, but to imply that Paul was only 2.5% of the increase in profits year over year would be stupid as well. Assumably, without Pauls assistance, Peter wouldnt have brought in the money he did the year before, and certainly wouldnt have made 25% MORE by himself this year.

Point being that we should stop acting like those at the top are the ones responsible for the vast majority of **** getting done. Jeff Bezos was only gonna be able to ship so many boxes out of his garage without some ****ing help. Without help, his billion dollar idea isnt worth the cardboard he was gonna ship it to you in.

bullseyelqcs said:

Why is everything a zero sum game with you people? in.

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I've already argued that it is NOT a zero sum game.
I fact I specifically stated that the AFL Cio came up with that misleading ~ 300 to 1 figure is that they want the rubes to believe they are making less because the greedy CEO's are making more.

bullseyelqcs said:

Why is everything a zero sum game with you people? You act like Peter had to rob Paul in order for Paul to be angry that off of his work, Peter has gotten substantially better off that Paul has for his own work. That simply isnt true.

Paul can be just as upset that compared to last year, tge two of them made 25% more money, and Peter gave himself an 18% raise and Paul got 2.5%. Im in no way implying that if Peter owns the company he should be paying Paul what he makes, but to imply that Paul was only 2.5% of the increase in profits year over year would be stupid as well. Assumably, without Pauls assistance, Peter wouldnt have brought in the money he did the year before, and certainly wouldnt have made 25% MORE by himself this year.

Point being that we should stop acting like those at the top are the ones responsible for the vast majority of **** getting done. Jeff Bezos was only gonna be able to ship so many boxes out of his garage without some ****ing help. Without help, his billion dollar idea isnt worth the cardboard he was gonna ship it to you in.

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Jeff Bezos Invested in himself. He took the time to go to college...to get STEM degrees in engineering. he came up with the business model for Amazon in 94 and began as a book distributor...investing his own capital. He assumed all the risk. He took his business public in 97...and immediately made people wealthy...people that never dropped a single book into a package. Bezos has made thousands multi-millionaires. And where he stared giving 17,000 jobs, today he gives 650,000 people careers. They offer by choice health care, investment plans with matched 401ks, college grant programs, career advancement programs. They bring billions into local communities smart enough to entice them to plant their flag. But its hard work...make no mistake. Theres a difference between those that have little to no job skills and exist to take and those that take risk.

They can sometimes write their own checks.

A FTSE company CEO has earned an average workers year's salary by midday on the third of January. That's the size of the gulf, and Trumpfollowers say the ceo's need tax breaks!

marke said:

According to what is said publicly about Franklin Raines in Wikipedia and other sources, Raines made over 90 million dollars as Fannie Mae CEO from 1999 to 2004, when he was ousted for fraud. He was not charged in the crime which ended up costing American taxpayers nearly a third of a trillion dollars when Fannie Mae had to be bailed out after the 2008 Wall Street collapse.

According to Judicial Watch which obtained records in the case, Franklin Raines was given a $240 million golden parachute when he 'retired'. The government did not sue Franklin Raines for reimbursement like it did from other CEOs of other financial institutions caught up in the collapse. The government paid Raines' legal bills, something it did not do for other CEOs. Granted, Raines was ousted several years before the 2008 collapse so attention was diverted from the fact that he made out like a bandit after being found guilty of cooking the books. He paid nearly $25 million in fines and restitution, the most of which was paid in practically worthless Fannie Mae stock for which the government was paid less than $2 million when it was sold.

There is no doubt that the out-of-control risky mortgage lending by Fannie Mae and other institutions were the primary reason Wall Street collapsed in 2008.

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You lied when you said he was not prosecuted by Obama and Holder because he's black. Obama didn't get into office until 5 years after he already stepped down from Fannie. You made a racist and ignorant post and you were called out on it.

I don't think God is a bigot or looks kindly on people who are. And he definitely does not like liars.