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What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Who was debating whether he won the electoral college? Stop trying to save face because you exposed yourself not knowing simple math. Its embarrassing.



She won more states than California but even so, how sad is it that you're here claiming Trump could of won the popular vote too if only 2 million fewer Americans had voted for his opponent. That's sad. That's like picking a fight and then asking the person to tie one arm behind their back to make it fair for you.

:lamo
LOL, not me getting all worked up and blathery because some one questioned the holiness of my Queen. :roll:
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

LOL, not me getting all worked up and blathery because some one questioned the holiness of my Queen. :roll:

I'm not worked up, I'm not even a Hilary fan, I'm just amused you can't count or locate California on a map. Hint, it's in America. You remember that right? The country you lost? Forget Hillary, the last time you won the popular vote was in 2004. The majority of Americans have rejected conservatism 6 out of the last 7 elections. The electoral college isn't going to artificially keep conservatism relevant much longer. You probably already lost Florida, you're going to lose Texas. What do I have to be upset about? The future's so bright that I gotta wear shades. :bright:
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

I'm not worked up, I'm not even a Hilary fan, I'm just amused you can't count or locate California on a map. Hint, it's in America. You remember that right? The country you lost? Forget Hillary, the last time you won the popular vote was in 2004. The majority of Americans have rejected conservatism 6 out of the last 7 elections. The electoral college isn't going to artificially keep conservatism relevant much longer. You probably already lost Florida, you're going to lose Texas. What do I have to be upset about? The future's so bright that I gotta wear shades. :bright:
Yeah, your buffoonery and false bravado makes it obvious you're not worked-up. :roll:
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Yeah, your buffoonery and false bravado makes it obvious you're not worked-up. :roll:

Why would my bravado be false? Do you dispute my facts? Have you not lost the popular vote 6 out of the last 7 times? Wasn't the last time the majority of Americans sided with conservatives more than a decade and a half ago during the middle of a war?

:lamo
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Why would my bravado be false? Do you dispute my facts? Have you not lost the popular vote 6 out of the last 7 times? Wasn't the last time the majority of Americans sided with conservatives more than a decade and a half ago during the middle of a war?

:lamo
Don't care about the national popular vote - it has no meaning; it a participation billion for heartbroken libs. What's important are the popular votes in each state because THAT'S WHAT EARNS ELECTORAL VOTES.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Don't care about the national popular vote - it has no meaning; it a participation billion for heartbroken libs. What's important are the popular votes in each state because THAT'S WHAT EARNS ELECTORAL VOTES.

You probably should care. It means culturally we are moving past conservatism. You won one election chief. Slow your roll. Other than that you control a bunch of places no one cares about filled with poor people to stupid to not give their hard earned money to preachers with private jets. It's a wonder you all have held on this long.

:lamo
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

I'll remember that the next time the next time a right wing moron asserts that Pelosi, or any democrat, hates America.

I'll remember that the next time Trump threatens the WB or threatens a witness.

I"ll remember that the next time Trump commits obstruction of justice and prevents Congress from doing their constitutional duty of oversight.


I"ll remember that the next time Trump violates the constitution, uses the office for his family's financial gain, and fails to uphold his oath of office.

Many politicians have been accused of corruption involving using immoral, unethical or illegal influence to steer money into their own accounts or in the accounts of friends and relatives. Very few major politicians have ever been thoroughly investigated or charged for crimes for which ample evidence of corruption is uncovered.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

You probably should care. It means culturally we are moving past conservatism. You won one election chief. Slow your roll. Other than that you control a bunch of places no one cares about filled with poor people to stupid to not give their hard earned money to preachers with private jets. It's a wonder you all have held on this long.

:lamo
Maybe you're not old enough to remember the chants and cheers for the "permainent Democratic majority" that went up after Obama won and amassed commanding majorities in both houses. Dems went on to loose nearly a thousand seats across all levels including 63 in the House just two years later.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Many politicians have been accused of corruption involving using immoral, unethical or illegal influence to steer money into their own accounts or in the accounts of friends and relatives. Very few major politicians have ever been thoroughly investigated or charged for crimes for which ample evidence of corruption is uncovered.


The only thing I"ve seen from you on this forum are falsehoods and vacuous bloviations, all of which you never substantiate.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

NOPE. Just demonstrating how ludicrous the premise "Hilary won the popular vote" is. She wasn't a sweeping national hero who somehow was cheated out of her just reward; she did extremely well in the People's Republic of California and earned the state's 55 electoral votes. But, she was far from nationally beloved.

If Trump had won the popular vote, you'd be throwing it in dems faces.


That makes you a hypocrite.


Dems have the will of the people, and Trump does not. Heck, 51% want the impeachment inquiry, and that was a FOX poll!


And you can't handle that.


Tsk tsk. FYI, there are more people voting for democrats than republicans. You guys are a shrinking party, and with Trump, the GOP will be destroyed.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

If Trump had won the popular vote, you'd be throwing it in dems faces.


That makes you a hypocrite.
LOL, you take strawmanning to heights unknown. :roll:

OscarLevant said:
]
Dems have the will of the people, and Trump does not. Heck, 51% want the impeachment inquiry, and that was a FOX poll!


And you can't handle that.
LOL, nothing, but loony lib delusions to handle.

OscarLevant said:
Tsk tsk. FYI, there are more people voting for democrats than republicans. You guys are a shrinking party, and with Trump, the GOP will be destroyed.
Until California secedes from the Union or breaks off the continent during the next earthquake. We already went over the "more people are voting . . ." idiocy. :roll"
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Maybe you're not old enough to remember the chants and cheers for the "permainent Democratic majority" that went up after Obama won and amassed commanding majorities in both houses. Dems went on to loose nearly a thousand seats across all levels including 63 in the House just two years later.

That was a combination of a couple things.

1. Democratic politicians depressed the vote by governing like Republicanlite. Obama might of campaigned like a populist progressive but he governed he like a Republican.

2. The frightened white vote came out like gangbusters in response to a black president.

Im not saying that can't happen again, they are desperately trying to shove Biden down our throats and when he falls off it will be Kamala Harris they start going hard with but I think it's to late for the frightened moderates in our party. The nominee will be Bernie or Warren, the agenda will be progressivism and all the frightened white men in America won't be enough to subdue the enthusiasm of voters.

Just remember. You lost 6 out of the last 7 popular votes. You only win when we stay home.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Well call me one of those 'tards' then; like I care. Trump doesn't know what a joke is. Sorry but getting all his republican mates out to call his remarks a 'joke', almost immediately the flak started to hit him, was too coincidental to be anything other than desperate damage limitation.

Again it was a joke the only people who actually think Trump was serious are tards while the rest who claim he wasn't joking are lying their asses off. I don't think you rode the short bus to school. So you most likely fall into the group that doesn't actually believe he was serious.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Again it was a joke the only people who actually think Trump was serious are tards while the rest who claim he wasn't joking are lying their asses off. I don't think you rode the short bus to school. So you most likely fall into the group that doesn't actually believe he was serious.

You can assume whatever you want.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

You can assume whatever you want.
Like I said there are two groups of people who claim Trump was serious.Tards and liars and I don't think you rode the short bus to school.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Like I said there are two groups of people who claim Trump was serious.Tards and liars and I don't think you rode the short bus to school.

Whatever you want to believe mate. Fortunately the lying duplicitous bastard Trump is America's problem, not ours.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

LOL, you take strawmanning to heights unknown. :roll:


Calling what is presented as a likelihood a "strawman" is not a strawman, because it is being presented not as a fait accompli, but a likelihood.


YOu need to study what a strawman is, and is not.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Calling what is presented as a likelihood a "strawman" is not a strawman, because it is being presented not as a fait accompli, but a likelihood.


YOu need to study what a strawman is, and is not.
IF I have to study I'll just refer to your post which is a prefect example; one of the best I've seen on DP in a long time. As for the rest of your "likelihood". I heard all those "permanent Democratic majority" chants when Obama got elected; within two years he'd lost his commanding control of Congress, including 63 seats in the and control in the House. And nearly a thousand state and local seats as well. You guys STILL don't grasp the dismal performance of the Dems under Obama and his own failures are what gave Trump the White House and GOP control of Congress. You guys had a chance to show what you could do in 2018 and you've pissed it away with your obsessive anti-Trumpism.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

That was a combination of a couple things.

1. Democratic politicians depressed the vote by governing like Republicanlite. Obama might of campaigned like a populist progressive but he governed he like a Republican.
"Like a Republican? Not a single Republican voted for ACA. Few if any Republicans mouthed his class warfare bull****. The Stimupork bill wasn't Republican-like. His class warfare/"them vs us"/politics of envy wasn't Republican, nor was his blatant racism.
Master Debator said:
2. The frightened white vote came out like gangbusters in response to a black president.
"Frightened white vote"? WTF you think ELECTED Obama. The 13% of our country that is black? Sorry, that idiocy doesn't hold water.
Master Debator said:
Im not saying that can't happen again, they are desperately trying to shove Biden down our throats and when he falls off it will be Kamala Harris they start going hard with but I think it's to late for the frightened moderates in our party. The nominee will be Bernie or Warren, the agenda will be progressivism and all the frightened white men in America won't be enough to subdue the enthusiasm of voters.
Kamala Harris? Seriously. If you don't get Biden, you're gonna get Warren. Harris is doing her best Titanic imitation.
Master Debator said:
Popular votes mean **** when you have a few states racking up huge majorities and the rest of the country voting against you. The people that control your thinking use "won the popular vote" as a tool to keep you guys in line and blindly following them off the cliff.
 
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Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Anyone with a brain in their head knows Trump was joking.

There are two problems with this line:

1. Russia obviously didn't think it was a joke. Within a few hours of Trump asking Russia to find Hillary's emails, Russian hackers, apparently likely at the direction of the Kremlin, began efforts to hack the DNC servers. If I say to neighbor 1 something like "Hey, go kill neighbor 2," and they then go kill neighbor 2, whether or not I meant it, I cannot and should not escape culpability.

2. In a somewhat unrelated point, there are some things you just cannot joke about, and no reasonable person should believe you're joking. If I dress up as an SS officer and go around saying "Sieg Heil!" and throwing up a Nazi salute, no one ought to believe it if I say later that "hey, I was only joking." Whether we like it or not, Russia is an adversary. You cannot joke about inviting a foreign adversary to take hostile action against a political opponent, and no one ought to believe it was a joke.

Obviously, if we disagree with either of the above (that is, if we think that someone can joke about just anything, or that there's no causal relation between a verbal utterance and the actions or reactions of others), then any offense, or at least any verbal offense, can be defended by just saying later "Oh, it was only a joke." Did a bunch of people get killed in a stampede that resulted from me shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater? Hey, only joking--I bear no blame. Did I call 911 on a neighbor, resulting in them being shot by police in a raid for which there was no real warrant? It was just a joke, after all--that the police acted on my joke is no fault of mine. And so on.

Taking that kind of line (that is, disbelieving either 1 or 2) results in deleterious results that are just not acceptable. We must therefore accept both 1 and 2, and it seems quite clear that adopting 1 and 2 require us to just not accept that Trump was only joking.
 
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Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

IF I have to study I'll just refer to your post which is a prefect example; one of the best I've seen on DP in a long time. As for the rest of your "likelihood". I heard all those "permanent Democratic majority" chants when Obama got elected; within two years he'd lost his commanding control of Congress, including 63 seats in the and control in the House. And nearly a thousand state and local seats as well. You guys STILL don't grasp the dismal performance of the Dems under Obama and his own failures are what gave Trump the White House and GOP control of Congress. You guys had a chance to show what you could do in 2018 and you've pissed it away with your obsessive anti-Trumpism.

I'll hand it to repubs, they are sneaky snakes in the grass, they gerrymandered so many districts, that's why they take them. We have more votes going to dems, but the seats are going to repubs, that's gerrymandering. Repubs can't win seats on merit, they have to cheat. Yeah, one or two districts wsere gerrymandered by the left, but the repubs gerrymandered a good portion of the map,
there is no equivalency on that point, so don't try and make it. Also, the cheating deosn't stop there, a book can be written about how repubs cheat in the vote. Sure, DNC/Hillary gave us some shenanigans, but she is Mother Theresa when it comes to cheating the vote compared to republicans. (Interstate crosscheck purged some 1.1 million from voter reg rolls, caging, restricting voting booths and voting days and times for areas that have minorities, and it goes on ).


It must have taken courage to pass the ACA, to sacrifice to get it passed. But, it took people a while to like it, and when the finally saw passed the noisy negativist repubs, they realized it was a good thing, AND WE TOOK BACK THE HOUSE, DID WE NOT?


What failures? Trump lost the popular vote to the worst candidate we've nominated in years.


Obama only had a "commanding control" of congress ( vis a vis the Senate ) for a very small window, just a couple of months, and during that small window, a monumental health care bill was passed,

Trump, other than a crime bill, hasn't accomplished squat ( and don't give me "executive orders signed" any moron can do that, talk to me about legislative achievements.)

His tax break has disproportionately helped his rich buddies, including his own family, to the tune of millions, which is NOT trickling down, but creating a much greater burden on everyone else, to pay the government bills and this is causing deficits to careen out of control, far beyond anything that Obama did. The last time there was a surplus, a dem was president, the last two times the economy crashed, in 1929 and 2008. a republican was president, nd both times dems had to come in and clean up the mess. Repubs drove America into a huge ditch, and Obama got us finally out of that ditch, and what did repubs do? They bitched that Obama didn't get us out of the ditch fast enough, when it was they who drove us into the ditch in the first place.


And talk about failures, Trump failed to build his wall and sure has hell failed to get Mexico to pay for it, he failed to get any kind of new health care bill passed and he failed to kill obamacare, but he is nickling and dimeing it to death. But none of that compares to his betraying AMerica.

IN fact, the GOP is the crime party, not as in "prevention" but as in "guilty of"

repubconvictions.jpg

Dems got it all over repubs on a variety of stats, Presidential Data 2016


I hate to tell you this, but you guys put the worst president in history in the white house, and now you have to own it, and it totally destroyed all of your collective credibiity.
 
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Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

That was a combination of a couple things.

1. Democratic politicians depressed the vote by governing like Republicanlite. Obama might of campaigned like a populist progressive but he governed he like a Republican.
No he didn't. it was the republicans in the house that stopped him from governing the way he wanted too. thank God for that.

2. The frightened white vote came out like gangbusters in response to a black president.

yet he had a good portion of the white vote which elected him into office. so think again.

Im not saying that can't happen again, they are desperately trying to shove Biden down our throats and when he falls off it will be Kamala Harris they start going hard with but I think it's to late for the frightened moderates in our party. The nominee will be Bernie or Warren, the agenda will be progressivism and all the frightened white men in America won't be enough to subdue the enthusiasm of voters.

Biden is falling and harris never had a chance. you are going to get stuck with Warren.
and any one that has any brains in their head will never vote for her.

Just remember. You lost 6 out of the last 7 popular votes. You only win when we stay home.

the popular vote means nothing. it isn't how we elect a president.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

There are two problems with this line:

1. Russia obviously didn't think it was a joke. Within a few hours of Trump asking Russia to find Hillary's emails, Russian hackers, apparently likely at the direction of the Kremlin, began efforts to hack the DNC servers. If I say to neighbor 1 something like "Hey, go kill neighbor 2," and they then go kill neighbor 2, whether or not I meant it, I cannot and should not escape culpability.

2. In a somewhat unrelated point, there are some things you just cannot joke about, and no reasonable person should believe you're joking. If I dress up as an SS officer and go around saying "Sieg Heil!" and throwing up a Nazi salute, no one ought to believe it if I say later that "hey, I was only joking." Whether we like it or not, Russia is an adversary. You cannot joke about inviting a foreign adversary to take hostile action against a political opponent, and no one ought to believe it was a joke.

Obviously, if we disagree with either of the above (that is, if we think that someone can joke about just anything, or that there's no causal relation between a verbal utterance and the actions or reactions of others), then any offense, or at least any verbal offense, can be defended by just saying later "Oh, it was only a joke." Did a bunch of people get killed in a stampede that resulted from me shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater? Hey, only joking--I bear no blame. Did I call 911 on a neighbor, resulting in them being shot by police in a raid for which there was no real warrant? It was just a joke, after all--that the police acted on my joke is no fault of mine. And so on.

Taking that kind of line (that is, disbelieving either 1 or 2) results in deleterious results that are just not acceptable. We must therefore accept both 1 and 2, and it seems quite clear that adopting 1 and 2 require us to just not accept that Trump was only joking.
Points 1 and 2 are irrelevant to the fact Trump was joking. So we do not have to accept either one.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

No he didn't. it was the republicans in the house that stopped him from governing the way he wanted too. thank God for that.

Obama was not a progressive. The wall st. bailouts, drone strikes, the continuation of the war on drugs, Obamacare, which sure, was better than what we had before but still a give away to insurance companies. Still governing under the mindset that if we take care of corporations that benefit will trickle down to the rest of us.

ludin said:
yet he had a good portion of the white vote which elected him into office. so think again.

The existence of non racists whites does not preclude the existence of a large number of racists whites. That is pretty basic reasoning. After all we ended segregation even as over 90% of southern representatives voted to maintain it.

ludin said:
Biden is falling and harris never had a chance. you are going to get stuck with Warren.
and any one that has any brains in their head will never vote for her.

Try reading coherently if you want people to think you're one of those people with brains in their heads. I'd be ecstatic over Warren or Bernie and one of them will almost certainly be the nominee. My point is Harris will be the next moderate up when Biden falls, which he's already beginning to do. A moderate was your best shot of re-electing Trump which was already a long shot. Bernie or Warren are going to smoke you.

ludin said:
the popular vote means nothing. it isn't how we elect a president.

No, but continually losing the popular vote isn't a very sustainable way of holding the presidency. Its only happened 5 times in history that an American president won the electoral college but lost the popular vote and only two times in the last century.
 
Re: What the right fails to grasp about "due process" and the right to "face your accuser"

Again what investigation? Trump and his campaign where investigated by American law enforcement. Who is investigating Biden?



First why don't you display some basic understanding of the law. Using subpoenas through the courts like with the Mueller investigation and what Congress is doing now, that is lawful. Asking foreign governments for political dirt on your opponent is not.



Because Biden was working at the behest of president Obama and State Dept to inact American foreign policy and Trump was acting in his own self interest against the advice of career intelligence officials that there was no evidence Biden did anything illegal and that asking foreign governments for help chasing his conspiracy theories was probably illegal. Hence why we now have a whistle blower complaint.



And yet no American law enforcement agency or congressional inquiry seems to be going on. Shouldn't that tell you something? Republicans had the House before the midterms. If this was so obvious why didn't anyone bring it up? Why is Trump sending his personal lawyer to ask foreign governments to investigate? Did we ask Russia to investigate Trump? When we wanted information from Russia we subpoenaed it. Why isn't Trump doing the same?



Which American system is being used to investigate Biden?



I understand the difference just fine. I also understand that friends of Giuliani and Trump were arrested yesterday trying to flee the country and Biden is still walking around free. Let me know when your accusations leads to warrants and arrest. :thumbs:




:lamo

It's nice that you're happy.

Who was arrested? Was there a crime involved? What was it? Link?

Investigations when conducted with integrity do not advertise unfounded charges. The reason you know about the charges against Trump is that the investigators have no integrity.

Barr is currently out of the country where the foreign conspirators live and work. Connect the dots.

It's fun discussing this with you guys. You seem to suffer delusions resulting from an interesting mix of selective blindness and illusion. You're seeing things that just aren't there.

When watching NBC News every night, the foundation of your misinformation comes into focus. It's almost sad that you abandon logic and reason in favor of narrative and party loyalty.

NBC is to Journalism what Mountain Dew is to Teeth.

US attorney general 'met Italian officials to discuss Russiagate' | US news | The Guardian
 
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