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The Christian Right is Helping Drive Liberals Away From Religion

apdst said:
You're not a believer, anyway. So what difference does it make if we explain to you that the Bible is the word of God?
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It's not. So, it's wise not to post something stupid in an effort to try convincing people otherwise.
 
calamity said:
It's not. So, it's wise not to post something stupid in an effort to try convincing people otherwise.
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You're an atheist, anyway. WTF does your opinion matter? :lamo
 
Obscurity said:
Because the rabid hatred and bigotry of the new Christian right is dividing us even further.
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The only division I see if your anti-Christian bigotry.
 
apdst said:
You're not a believer, anyway. So what difference does it make if we explain to you that the Bible is the word of God?
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Oh, the things you don't know, apdst, the things you don't know. :lol:

I don't even know where to begin. :)
 
Crossfire said:
That is a terrible argument. The Bible is not exhaustive on everything that the Lord does not approve of.
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You want to play that little game with me? Fine, find anywhere in the entire Bible where it says that pedophilia is bad.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Right-Wing Christians believe Jesus is a white guy who hates socialism. :lol:
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1) Beards have nothing to do with salvation.
2) Not all men can grow full beards.
3) God is far more concerned with the inward instead of the outward.

In reference to Jesus and socialism, yes it is one ideology that Jesus and God don't like very much. Why because its an extremely closed society where people are indoctrinated and told what to believe is right and wrong by the "state". Socialism tends to cause genocide and general hell around the world. But liberals only look forward, not backward.
 
Phys251 said:
Oh, the things you don't know, apdst, the things you don't know. :lol:

I don't even know where to begin. :)
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I'm well aware of you anti-Christian bigotry. :lamo
 
apdst said:
I'm well aware of you anti-Christian bigotry. :lamo
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First of all, it's "your," and second, you know nothing about this ex-Christian. So please don't confuse yourself by pretending that you do. :)
 
Phys251 said:
First of all, it's "your," and second, you know nothing about this ex-Christian. So please don't confuse yourself by pretending that you do. :)
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You just proved it for me.
 
apdst said:
You just proved it for me.
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Whatever motivates you, apdst. I'm free from your religion now, so sticks and stones. :cool:
 
Obscurity said:
The Christian Right Is Helping Drive Liberals Away From Religion | FiveThirtyEight

Proof is in the pudding folks. I had mentioned something similar, that the religious right wing was destroying itself in truly iconoclast fashion.

This one is personal for me. Its part of the reason I am an atheist. The people composing the church are becoming more radical in their social views. They are ubdermining the separation of church and state, the very right that enables them to practice their faith.

The religious right takes any advance in social justice as an affront to their beliefs. Gay marriage for example. Gays being married outside the church does not undermine traditional marriage. Christians however take this as an affront to their belief. They can believe whatever they want but they have no right to make others adhere with that belief.

Thankfully the faith is dying by self inflicted wounds and worsening fanaticism.
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I feel sorry for non right wing Christians right now, because I am close to some. They say they hate how Republican Party politics has taken over the Christian identity, and they are feeling pushed out and unwelcome.

I personally, I used to give money to Christian charities and causes. I have since stopped doing it. I have been closely reviewing my charitable donations. I don't want it going towards groups that identify as Christian anymore.

I am tired of the political agenda, especially now since they backed Trump. Then there are huge scandals coming out of Liberty University.

These people need a wake up call.

I sincerely feel sorry for Christians who do not like what is happening right now.
 
Iron_Merc said:
1) Beards have nothing to do with salvation.
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I didn't write the Bible, I just referenced it.

2) Not all men can grow full beards.
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This is true. As long a they don't cut their beards they're fine. The passage is in reference to the cutting of beard. Shaving is a pretty clear transgression against God's wishes.

3) God is far more concerned with the inward instead of the outward.
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Then he should revise the Bible yet again.

In reference to Jesus and socialism, yes it is one ideology that Jesus and God don't like very much. Why because its an extremely closed society where people are indoctrinated and told what to believe is right and wrong by the "state". Socialism tends to cause genocide and general hell around the world. But liberals only look forward, not backward.
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MAGA Jesus approves of your rhetoric.
 
Felis Leo said:
I find the reasoning kind of backwards, Obscurity. How is it the responsibility of highly-orthodox/conservative religious groups to cater to the sensibilities of the liberal and ecumenical? Is it your argument (or those of FiveThirtyEight's) that if the teachings and interpretations were less strict, that these many liberal and progressive parishioners would stay? If that is the case, why aren't those who are leaving these supposedly "right wing" churches turning to more liberal and "open-minded" churches? Why aren't those Orthodox Jews simply going to Reform Synagogues, or Southern Baptists turning Presbyterian, or Sunni and Shia Muslims turning to the Baha'i Faith or Sufism?
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I have seen a lot of fundamental people leave the religion, and become straight up atheists. That happens more than reforming their religion happens.

I think is the same concept as kids raised by super strict, helicopter parents, when they become adults and start college, they are the one's partying like crazy.

People go from one extreme to the next.
 
Superfly said:
I am a card-carrying Democrat, and I have not walked away from my faith. I am not a fan of organized religion, but I have not, nor will I ever, deny Christ, or the impact He has in my life.

I’m just not crazy about some of His followers. :lol:
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Do you go to church?
 
Felis Leo said:
If someone sincerely believes in a God and that this god somehow intervenes in human affairs and expects certain behaviors from humanity, why wouldn't they simply change congregations to one with a more liberal bent (or at least one that did not make a point of engaging in politics)? This seems more like a pretext for non-believers to break away from the pretensions of religious faith. I mean, did you stop believing in God because you thought his representatives on Earth were mean along with fellow members of your congregation?

Would you become religious again if the vast majority of believers became more left-wing politically and promoted policies that you favored using the Bible to justify it like many right-leaning Christians presently do, but reversed in a photo-negative fashion?
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The article doesn't say that they are breaking away from religious faith or stopped believing in God. The article says they are leaving organized religion, but still believe in God.
 
Evangelical Christians are the minority sect of Christianity and for the most part only exist in the US. People pay too much attention to them. If people are turned off by evangelical christianity but want to remain christian there are literally dozens of other denominations to go to. If they are turned off by evangelical Christianity them top being christian, then who really cares? Christians probably didn't want them anyway and they're better off doing their own thing.
 
apdst said:
The only division I see if your anti-Christian bigotry.
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Garbage reply. Of course the hubris of being a true believer makes it even more ironic.
 
Dans La Lune said:
I didn't write the Bible, I just referenced it.



This is true. As long a they don't cut their beards they're fine. The passage is in reference to the cutting of beard. Shaving is a pretty clear transgression against God's wishes.



Then he should revise the Bible yet again.



MAGA Jesus approves of your rhetoric.
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He needs to close his prosperity bible.
 
Felis Leo said:
I did. It seems like so much excuse-making. It seems that Obscurity seems to have left his faith because he stopped believing in the foundational truth of the religious teachings, i.e., that a God exists. The same reason I did. Not that people in his Church were not nice enough.
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What you're failing to understand about that is that the guy that still believes in god but stays home because he doesn't feel welcome at his local church is still a lost member for the church. The church with its hypocritical behaviors and fusion of Republican policies is driving a lot of people away from the church, not necessarily from god or a personal religion. The total drop in people who believe in god is just coming from the fact that people are better educated and more able to think for themselves, which is also devastating church numbers.

Felis Leo said:
If one sincerely believes in the existence of God and that this God is the moral arbiter of the universe, then a bunch of nasty, dishonest hypocrites would not allay my faith. When I was a believer, there were more than a few s***-heels in my religious group. But we migrated to a different religious community when the rotten apples spoiled our bunch, as it were.
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This proves my point nicely. You were dissatisfied with the toxicity of the church group you were at so you left. Doesn't mean you stopped believing in god, just that you're no longer going to be giving them money and their attendance numbers fall. A self-inflicted wound.

Felis Leo said:
Let me ask you something, RabidAlpaca. What is there that Germans of all classes and backgrounds are able to come together regularly in a spirit of fellowship for? What in other words, has taken the place of religion in Germany? Soccer perhaps? Germanic racial supremacy in the case of the AfD?

What should take religion's place as a unifier? Or should there be nothing that unites disparate people?
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I challenge your assertion that religion was ever a great unifier. Religion has never been open to "all classes and backgrounds" as each church is oriented towards a group of one specific background, for instance, Baptist Christians. Germany is full of many religions, and within even the dominant religion, Christianity, there's a huge divide between Catholic and Protestant, then hundreds of denominations within Protestant and an authoritarian style within Catholicism. Within those denominations they're all divided up by churches for local communities. So at most you're bringing together a very homogeneous ideological group in a very specific area.

The gap left by religion can be filled by literally anything, and I would assert that literally everything is ultimately more productive and fulfilling than having someone calm your existential dread by constantly reminding you you're immortal. Sports and hobby clubs, groups of friends, large families, coworkers in a job you're passionate about, whatever the individual wants. I was raised in it for 20 years and I personally never found any comfort in the community of the Christian church, which is one of the many reasons I left. I've never been one for clubs in the first place. I like small groups of friends that meet when we feel like it to grill and chill or whatever.

That is what I think so many religious people find so terrifying about losing the structure of religion. Without it, it's all incumbent on them to come up with ways to fulfill their own needs and destiny, it won't just be served up as a pre-packaged ideology for them. Defining your own philosophy is hard work and requires a lot of introspection, which most people aren't willing to do.

As an atheist do you feel like you're cut off from community and you're looking for something to replace the function the church once served for you? Why does that club or community have to be based on supernatural lies? I don't see that as a pre-requisite.
 
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Obscurity said:
The Christian Right Is Helping Drive Liberals Away From Religion | FiveThirtyEight

Proof is in the pudding folks. I had mentioned something similar, that the religious right wing was destroying itself in truly iconoclast fashion.

This one is personal for me. Its part of the reason I am an atheist. The people composing the church are becoming more radical in their social views. They are ubdermining the separation of church and state, the very right that enables them to practice their faith.

The religious right takes any advance in social justice as an affront to their beliefs. Gay marriage for example. Gays being married outside the church does not undermine traditional marriage. Christians however take this as an affront to their belief. They can believe whatever they want but they have no right to make others adhere with that belief.

Thankfully the faith is dying by self inflicted wounds and worsening fanaticism.
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Yes, church attendances are tanking all over the civilized world. And a good thing it is too; people are waking up.
 
Phys251 said:
You want to play that little game with me? Fine, find anywhere in the entire Bible where it says that pedophilia is bad.
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Yeah, I am the one playing games. If you are okay with pedophilia just because the words "do not be a pedophile" are not in the Bible, fine with me. I am smart enough and have the morals to know that pedophilia is wrong and that it is not approved of without it being explicitly labeled in the Bible. It falls under love your neighbor as yourself. I am also smart enough to know that neighbor in this sense does not just mean logistically, before you start that moronic argument.
 
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