How Liberals Turned Against Free Speech (NYPost Editorial)

Great piece on the disturbing, growing phenomenon of liberal fear/hatred of free speech written last year:

How liberals turned against free speech

The Economist's Adrian Wooldridge describes the process. Historically, he says, liberals understood that conflict was inevitable and tried to foster freedom based on their distrust of power, faith in progress and belief in civic respect.

But today, he writes, liberalism as a philosophy has been captured by a technocratic-managerial-cosmopolitan elite. They've moved from making a critique of the existing power structure to becoming one of the most powerful elites in history. In response, we see a revolt of the provinces against the city - Brexit, Donald Trump. In counter-response, as Niall Ferguson puts it in The Times of London, liberals are increasingly authoritarian.

1984 was Orwell's warning about liberal/left-wing authoritarianism; how is is that such a liberal pet would have his legacy ignored in favor of such devastating authoritarian aims?

Where will this lead?

Much as liberalism's positions can often raise my ire, they aren't turning their backs on free speech. The union dues thing is an economics issue, and an attempt to undo damage that has been done to union power by the ruling class of capitalists, more or less. The cake baking and abortion information issues are about making sure that people actually have access to things they need; abortion information is extremely important for women's reproductive health, even if some smooth brains mistakenly believe that it's murder, and the cake thing is just part of a larger struggle against people taking a mile when given an inch - if a cake can be denied, then someone will try to deny medical care. Cake is no more speech than medical treatment, and if you want to provide health care, you can't deny patients information just because you don't like certain aspects of modern health care.

As for conservatives being too stupid to realize how much Orwell hated them, you guys should all read Homage to Catalonia. Get a nice taste of Orwell's time in the trenches with the anarchists and the communists, fighting against the nationalists.

3leftsdoo said:

1984 was Orwell's warning about liberal/left-wing authoritarianism;

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The Party in the 1984 explicitly did not have a left, or a right wing political bent. I get your whole grift is to be wrong and bad at everything, but one of the most cringe inducing things in politics is when hairbrained dullards think 1984 was some hot take on Political Correctness while having no real comprehension on the story, or even the kind of life Orwell had lived prior to writing 1984.

3leftsdoo said:

Great piece on the disturbing, growing phenomenon of liberal fear/hatred of free speech written last year:

How liberals turned against free speech

The Economist's Adrian Wooldridge describes the process. Historically, he says, liberals understood that conflict was inevitable and tried to foster freedom based on their distrust of power, faith in progress and belief in civic respect.

But today, he writes, liberalism as a philosophy has been captured by a technocratic-managerial-cosmopolitan elite. They've moved from making a critique of the existing power structure to becoming one of the most powerful elites in history. In response, we see a revolt of the provinces against the city - Brexit, Donald Trump. In counter-response, as Niall Ferguson puts it in The Times of London, liberals are increasingly authoritarian.

1984 was Orwell's warning about liberal/left-wing authoritarianism; how is is that such a liberal pet would have his legacy ignored in favor of such devastating authoritarian aims?

Where will this lead?

Click to expand...

This all just sounds like partisan nonsense.

One side screaming that the other does this that and the other, while their own side does the very same things.

CMPancake said:

The Party in the 1984 explicitly did not have a left, or a right wing political bent. I get your whole grift is to be wrong and bad at everything, but one of the most cringe inducing things in politics is when hairbrained dullards think 1984 was some hot take on Political Correctness while having no real comprehension on the story, or even the kind of life Orwell had lived prior to writing 1984.

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A grotesque combination of the fascists Orwell fought against, and the Stalinists that derailed everything in Catalonia. That's my reading of 1984, at least.

3leftsdoo said:

Great piece on the disturbing, growing phenomenon of liberal fear/hatred of free speech written last year:

How liberals turned against free speech

The Economist's Adrian Wooldridge describes the process. Historically, he says, liberals understood that conflict was inevitable and tried to foster freedom based on their distrust of power, faith in progress and belief in civic respect.

But today, he writes, liberalism as a philosophy has been captured by a technocratic-managerial-cosmopolitan elite. They've moved from making a critique of the existing power structure to becoming one of the most powerful elites in history. In response, we see a revolt of the provinces against the city - Brexit, Donald Trump. In counter-response, as Niall Ferguson puts it in The Times of London, liberals are increasingly authoritarian.

1984 was Orwell's warning about liberal/left-wing authoritarianism; how is is that such a liberal pet would have his legacy ignored in favor of such devastating authoritarian aims?

Where will this lead?

Click to expand...

Democrats simply believe their socialist vision is the correct one and they intend to put it into practice despite no example of similar plans ever working for the good of the masses. All have failed and caused the ruination of many countries and governments. All at the detriment of the citizens they claim they want to hurt. However they, the people running the show, don't ever seem to share in the policies they impose on the people.

3leftsdoo said:

Great piece on the disturbing, growing phenomenon of liberal fear/hatred of free speech written last year:

How liberals turned against free speech

The Economist's Adrian Wooldridge describes the process. Historically, he says, liberals understood that conflict was inevitable and tried to foster freedom based on their distrust of power, faith in progress and belief in civic respect.

But today, he writes, liberalism as a philosophy has been captured by a technocratic-managerial-cosmopolitan elite. They've moved from making a critique of the existing power structure to becoming one of the most powerful elites in history. In response, we see a revolt of the provinces against the city - Brexit, Donald Trump. In counter-response, as Niall Ferguson puts it in The Times of London, liberals are increasingly authoritarian.

1984 was Orwell's warning about liberal/left-wing authoritarianism; how is is that such a liberal pet would have his legacy ignored in favor of such devastating authoritarian aims?

Where will this lead?

Click to expand...

Orwell was warning about authoritarianism in general, without any specific left wing attachment.

While I agree that political correctness can strain the bounds of what is acceptable to the point on fringing on free discourse, and the left can and does engage in selective omissions, fallacious argumentation and the like, the right engages in similar acts of disingenuity and propaganda on a routine basis. No one is innocent, and you should know better.

Though Brexit and Donald Trump indeed have much to do with popular disenfranchisement, this has far more to do with lack of economic representation and exploitation among the working class by economic elites that can't reasonably be classified as of the left outside of at best the social axis. The rich, their domineering of the political process and consequent frustration, is what lead us to such things, not a partisan conspiracy; if anything, the monied elite responsible lean right in every way that matters on the economic axis.

Integrityrespec said:

Democrats simply believe their socialist vision is the correct one and they intend to put it into practice despite no example of similar plans ever working for the good of the masses. All have failed and caused the ruination of many countries and governments. All at the detriment of the citizens they claim they want to hurt. However they, the people running the show, don't ever seem to share in the policies they impose on the people.

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Let's hear your hot take on what the Democrat agenda is, buddy. What socialist vision do you think the Democrats are pushing?

3leftsdoo said:

Great piece on the disturbing, growing phenomenon of liberal fear/hatred of free speech written last year:

How liberals turned against free speech

The Economist's Adrian Wooldridge describes the process. Historically, he says, liberals understood that conflict was inevitable and tried to foster freedom based on their distrust of power, faith in progress and belief in civic respect.

But today, he writes, liberalism as a philosophy has been captured by a technocratic-managerial-cosmopolitan elite. They've moved from making a critique of the existing power structure to becoming one of the most powerful elites in history. In response, we see a revolt of the provinces against the city - Brexit, Donald Trump. In counter-response, as Niall Ferguson puts it in The Times of London, liberals are increasingly authoritarian.

1984 was Orwell's warning about liberal/left-wing authoritarianism; how is is that such a liberal pet would have his legacy ignored in favor of such devastating authoritarian aims?

Where will this lead?

Click to expand...

It has been said that in order to change society, you must control it. More government, more laws, more restrictions. Sounds 1984 to me. Sounds like Democrat.

Frigidweirdo said:

This all just sounds like partisan nonsense.

One side screaming that the other does this that and the other, while their own side does the very same things.

Click to expand...

The Right won't take my plastic straws and outlaw my Dodge Hellcat. BRAPP!!!!

nitroexpress said:

The Right won't take my plastic straws and outlaw my Dodge Hellcat. BRAPP!!!!

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And they won't take your sanity either, but mostly because you lost it somewhere and even you can't find it.

3leftsdoo said:

Great piece on the disturbing, growing phenomenon of liberal fear/hatred of free speech written last year:

How liberals turned against free speech

The Economist's Adrian Wooldridge describes the process. Historically, he says, liberals understood that conflict was inevitable and tried to foster freedom based on their distrust of power, faith in progress and belief in civic respect.

But today, he writes, liberalism as a philosophy has been captured by a technocratic-managerial-cosmopolitan elite. They've moved from making a critique of the existing power structure to becoming one of the most powerful elites in history. In response, we see a revolt of the provinces against the city - Brexit, Donald Trump. In counter-response, as Niall Ferguson puts it in The Times of London, liberals are increasingly authoritarian.

1984 was Orwell's warning about liberal/left-wing authoritarianism; how is is that such a liberal pet would have his legacy ignored in favor of such devastating authoritarian aims?

Where will this lead?

Click to expand...

Imagine if a gay porno studio opened up in a conservative neighborhood and a couple mosques moved in as well.

I know without a doubt conservatives would be "against" free speech as well


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Integrityrespec said:

Democrats simply believe their socialist vision is the correct one and they intend to put it into practice despite no example of similar plans ever working for the good of the masses. All have failed and caused the ruination of many countries and governments. All at the detriment of the citizens they claim they want to hurt. However they, the people running the show, don't ever seem to share in the policies they impose on the people.

Click to expand...

The problem you have, I suspect, is that anytime the word 'socialism' is mentioned it conjures up visions of Communist Russia, bread lines and three year waits for a Lada. Pretty much every government has elements of socialist policy, including yours today, so what's the objection? Have any other democrat governments turned the US into the USSR, or hurt you with their 'socialist vision'? No, they haven't, so why the hysteria?

nitroexpress said:

The Right won't take my plastic straws and outlaw my Dodge Hellcat. BRAPP!!!!

Click to expand...

You have a car called a 'Hellcat'? :lamo

Jesse Booth said:

Much as liberalism's positions can often raise my ire, they aren't turning their backs on free speech. The union dues thing is an economics issue, and an attempt to undo damage that has been done to union power by the ruling class of capitalists, more or less. The cake baking and abortion information issues are about making sure that people actually have access to things they need; abortion information is extremely important for women's reproductive health, even if some smooth brains mistakenly believe that it's murder, and the cake thing is just part of a larger struggle against people taking a mile when given an inch - if a cake can be denied, then someone will try to deny medical care. Cake is no more speech than medical treatment, and if you want to provide health care, you can't deny patients information just because you don't like certain aspects of modern health care.

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Hmmm.

A thoughtful reply on what I agree are arguable examples at the beginning of the piece.

But ignoring the later-raised issue of large-scale liberal attacks on free speech...

C+ or B- I'd say.

Jesse Booth said:

As for conservatives being too stupid to realize how much Orwell hated them, you guys should all read Homage to Catalonia. Get a nice taste of Orwell's time in the trenches with the anarchists and the communists, fighting against the nationalists.

Click to expand...

Orwell hated everyone, most especially himself.

So C-.

3leftsdoo said:

Hmmm.

A thoughtful reply on what I agree are arguable examples at the beginning of the piece.

But ignoring the later-raised issue of large-scale liberal attacks on free speech...

C+ or B- I'd say.

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That's because no examples were, given, only wild and emotionally driven hysteria. Let's look at the main meat of the article after all of the arguable examples.

The American Civil Liberties Union was founded in 1920 to defend the free speech rights of everyone, even vile extremists. Unhappily, the ACLU today subordinates free speech to other values, like defending the sensibilities of certain students on campuses. And other liberals have been moving in the same direction.

.....

But today, he writes, “liberalism as a philosophy has been captured by a techno.” They’ve moved from making “a critique of the existing power structure” to becoming “one of the most powerful elites in history.” In response, we see “a revolt of the provinces against the city”: Brexit, Donald Trump. In counter-response, as Niall Ferguson puts it in The Times of London, “ ‘liberals’ are increasingly authoritarian.”

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All I see here is name-calling, with no actual examples of how liberalism has become a "technocratic-managerial-cosmopolitan elite." Is he referring to an urban-rural divide? If so, he's a ****ing retard because we've had an urban-rural split in American politics since Jeffferson and Adams ran against each other after Washington's retirement. Is he referring to Democrats trying to manage other people's lives? Republicans are just as bad in explicitly destructive ways, between the war on drugs that's led to us having the largest prison population on the entire planet, their insistence on supporting gay conversion therapy which has been clinically proven to be little more than emotional torture for homosexuals, and their obsessive need to control women's reproductive choices when they become pregnant. Does he refer to big tech's policies? They're corporatist centrists at best, with a strong focus on liberal social issues and horrifyingly regressive-right business practices.

If he's saying the Democrats are a ruling elite that dominates American politics, he clearly hasn't seen an American vote tally in the last two decades. And if he's calling the Brexit **** anti-elites, he should look at just how damn heavily the Brexiters are concentrated in the House of Lords. The article's argument isn't even a whole lot of nothing - it's simply nothing.

3leftsdoo said:

Great piece on the disturbing, growing phenomenon of liberal fear/hatred of free speech written last year:

How liberals turned against free speech

The Economist's Adrian Wooldridge describes the process. Historically, he says, liberals understood that conflict was inevitable and tried to foster freedom based on their distrust of power, faith in progress and belief in civic respect.

But today, he writes, liberalism as a philosophy has been captured by a technocratic-managerial-cosmopolitan elite. They've moved from making a critique of the existing power structure to becoming one of the most powerful elites in history. In response, we see a revolt of the provinces against the city - Brexit, Donald Trump. In counter-response, as Niall Ferguson puts it in The Times of London, liberals are increasingly authoritarian.

1984 was Orwell's warning about liberal/left-wing authoritarianism; how is is that such a liberal pet would have his legacy ignored in favor of such devastating authoritarian aims?

Where will this lead?

Click to expand...

People are just increasingly impatient and that manifests itself oddly in politics.

nitroexpress said:

It has been said that in order to change society, you must control it. More government, more laws, more restrictions. Sounds 1984 to me. Sounds like Democrat.

Click to expand...

Like outlawing abortion and gay marriage? That kind of control?

nitroexpress said:

The Right won't take my plastic straws and outlaw my Dodge Hellcat. BRAPP!!!!

Click to expand...

I'm going to assume that's a car thing, and not the thing that made me literally fall out of my chair laughing when I read this post.

CMPancake said:

The Party in the 1984 explicitly did not have a left, or a right wing political bent. I get your whole grift is to be wrong and bad at everything, but one of the most cringe inducing things in politics is when hairbrained dullards think 1984 was some hot take on Political Correctness while having no real comprehension on the story, or even the kind of life Orwell had lived prior to writing 1984.

Click to expand...

Its inspiration very much did.

But I get your whole grift.

Surrealistik said:

Orwell was warning about authoritarianism in general, without any specific left wing attachment.

While I agree that political correctness can strain the bounds of what is acceptable to the point on fringing on free discourse, and the left can and does engage in selective omissions, fallacious argumentation and the like, the right engages in similar acts of disingenuity and propaganda on a routine basis. No one is innocent, and you should know better.

Though Brexit and Donald Trump indeed have much to do with popular disenfranchisement, this has far more to do with lack of economic representation and exploitation among the working class by economic elites that can't reasonably be classified as of the left outside of at best the social axis. The rich, their domineering of the political process and consequent frustration, is what lead us to such things, not a partisan conspiracy; if anything, the monied elite responsible lean right in every way that matters on the economic axis.

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Some good points - as usual - but the reality is that rank and file liberals (aka non-disclosing conservatives) are working hand in hand with elite liberals (aka non-disclosing conservatives) to quash free speech.

3leftsdoo said:

Some good points - as usual - but the reality is that rank and file liberals (aka non-disclosing conservatives) are working hand in hand with elite liberals (aka non-disclosing conservatives) to quash free speech.

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Plenty of liberals, myself included, also work to preserve free speech; among the left, Bernie is far from alone in thinking that to deny others the ability to present their arguments is a sign of intellectual weakness.

Likewise, there are many conservatives who would love nothing more than to silence and jail their opposition were it at all possible.

nitroexpress said:

It has been said that in order to change society, you must control it. More government, more laws, more restrictions. Sounds 1984 to me. Sounds like Democrat.

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I think the agenda is pure power.

The idea that Democrats seek to better society is a lie they'll use to gain that power.