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White House and DOJ recommend holding whistle blower complaint from Congress

ludin said:
it isn't a technical point at all. it is called facts.
mueller gave no opinion trump is innocent until proven guilty.

since mueller gave no opinion it means that trump is innocent.
more so since barr and rosenstien both cleared him of any wrong doing.

you can't seem to get this through your head.

sure it would because mueller was playing politics.
mueller gave no opinion on the obstruction charges.

which means he defers to his boss which was rosenstien.
rosenstien and barr both found that there was not enough evidence
for an obstruction charge.
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Mueller spelled out at least 10 instances of obstruction of justice and left those charges up to Congress to pursue. Having no opinion does not mean that Mueller claimed he is innocent, that's not logical by any stretch of the imagination.
 
OscarLevant said:
A cop is not invading your right to drive on the road when he gives you a ticket, you can still drive on the road.

NO ONE is invading Trump's executive privilege, as long as all the rules are followed, and given that Trump is not above the law, there is the whistleblower law, as well.

If there is privilege, the substance of the complaint will be kept confidential. You do know that Schiff has a security clearance to observe confidential matters, which is necessary for his role as overseer of the executive branch.

The right seems to think we have a king. We do not.
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In the first place, the Acting DNI had no business asking DOJ for an opinion. DOJ had no business offering one and the acting DNI also had no rational for following DOJ's recommendation and opinion.

This is not a matter of Executive Privilege and the DOJ opinion did not really sight one. The opinion is sighting the lack of relevance. Their position is that this is not an Intelligence Community Issue but that it is an Administrative issue. Therefore in their opinion the Intelligence IG has no relevant interest here.

This is an absurd contention. It is as absurd as many of the arguments we see in this forum. The IG does not work for the President. The DNI does not work for the President. The AG should not view his job though the perspective of the President for that matter. All three of them work for the American People, not the President.

If there is a linkage to US Intelligence and US National Security the Intelligence IG absolutely has a dog in that fight. The IG absolutely has relevance and a role to play as does the Whistleblower as does the Congress. The President is not above the law and is not above the National Security interests of the United States nor is the President the ultimate arbiter of the National Security interests of the United States.

This entire incident smacks of absurdity. Do we actually think the Founders intention was and that they in fact did create s circumstance of a stark raving mad sitting President being allowed his stark raving mad will just because the American People elected him President?

I will tell you who had gone stark raving mad....any idiot that that gives this Trumpian nonsense even the benefit of the doubt.
 
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Condor060 said:
I would support putting him in jail and watching his personal empire and fortune burn to the ground.
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Somehow, between what you say today and what you would say tomorrow would be different.
 
Trump is digging his own grave and throwing the dirt in on himself and his ghoulish sycophants. His contentions, his arguments and the arguments made in his stead grow more absurd by the minute. This is far and away the most absurd set of arguments made for his continued abuse of power and obstruction to date....not even close. THIS IS TRULY NUTS.

And yes...Rudy Guilliani is stark raving mad or sane and willing to offer opinions that are stark raving madness. There is not a third option.
 
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beefheart said:
Somehow, between what you say today and what you would say tomorrow would be different.
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I have never said anything different. So how is it you can come to these conclusions
 
jet57 said:
We know who the whitsle blower is and he's been ordered by Trump not to talk.
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Ooooohhhh reallllyyyyy, Just who is this whistle blower

I suspect that Trump told somebody that we'd send troops somewhere... It's all gonna come out so get you crow eating shoes on.
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And just what part of Trump talking about sending troops somewhere is a problem for Trump?
 
OscarLevant said:
A cop is not invading your right to drive on the road when he gives you a ticket, you can still drive on the road.
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Which has what to do with anything we were discussing.

NO ONE is invading Trump's executive privilege, as long as all the rules are followed, and given that Trump is not above the law, there is the whistleblower law, as well.
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They can't invade executive privilege for a whistle blower complaint. If it has nothing to do with EP then they can move forward

You do know that Schiff has a security clearance to observe confidential matters, which is necessary for his role as overseer of the executive branch.
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I know he is a lying snake who told America he has confidential information that proves Trump was a Russian agent.
 
noonereal said:
Absolutely.... there are no words

What the **** is wrong with you people?

Time for the "normal" Americans to immigrate to another country as did many Germans as Hitler rose.
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Don't forget to take the rest of your normal Americans with you. See ya
 
jet57 said:
We know who the whitsle blower is and he's been ordered by Trump not to talk.

I suspect that Trump told somebody that we'd send troops somewhere... It's all gonna come out so get you crow eating shoes on.
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The IG has not been allowed to forward the information. The whistleblower may ultimately decide to speak through intermediaries if the information that he or she has delivered to the IG does not get passed on to the Congress. However at this moment the whistleblower has coverage under the whistleblower protection laws. If the whistleblower himself or herself speaks directly to the American People or to the media he risks his whistleblower protection. It is the IG who must provide the information directly to the Congress and/or the DNI who must provide the information directly to the Congress.

As I stated much earlier, this was a bad bad decision on the part of Bill Barr to stick his nose into this for the person he considers his client, the President. This is already leaking out and in a way that does not afford the President any cover. If the DNI had simply allowed the IG to provide the appropriate Committee of Congress in Executive Session or the Gang of 8 the information, then there is that control mechanism. As it is now, it is almost all out already not more than hours after first being revealed and Barr and Trump are going to end up having dug the biggest hole of the Trump Presidency as it relates to abuse of power and obstruction of justice. That is saying something in this Presidency.
 
Condor060 said:
Which has what to do with anything we were discussing.



They can't invade executive privilege for a whistle blower complaint. If it has nothing to do with EP then they can move forward



I know he is a lying snake who told America he has confidential information that proves Trump was a Russian agent.
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You do realize the language that allows congress to make laws is contained in our constitution, while there is not a single word that even mentions "executive privilege" or such a concept. That bit of trash is something devised by our courts, the same as in the Roe and Citizens decisions. Not only that but as Nixon found out, the privilege does not cover illegal activities or investigations by the Congress.
 
noonereal said:
Absolutely.... there are no words

What the **** is wrong with you people?

Time for the "normal" Americans to immigrate to another country as did many Germans as Hitler rose.
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My retirement will be in Costa Rica, and Ireland.
 
Condor060 said:
Which has what to do with anything we were discussing.



They can't invade executive privilege for a whistle blower complaint. If it has nothing to do with EP then they can move forward



I know he is a lying snake who told America he has confidential information that proves Trump was a Russian agent.
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Spare us your emotional strawman arguments.

Wrongdoing is not "privileged communication", and the whole point of whistleblowing is to blow the whistle on it, duh.

The arbiter of this wrongdoing is Congress, not the ( alleged ) wrongdoer ( Trump, or any of his cabs or appointees ).


If this were not true, we'd have fascism.


Tell me you do not support fascism, say it isn't so.
 
jnug said:
In the first place, the Acting DNI had no business asking DOJ for an opinion. DOJ had no business offering one and the acting DNI also had no rational for following DOJ's recommendation and opinion.

This is not a matter of Executive Privilege and the DOJ opinion did not really sight one. The opinion is sighting the lack of relevance. Their position is that this is not an Intelligence Community Issue but that it is an Administrative issue. Therefore in their opinion the Intelligence IG has no relevant interest here.

This is an absurd contention. It is as absurd as many of the arguments we see in this forum. The IG does not work for the President. The DNI does not work for the President. The AG should not view his job though the perspective of the President for that matter. All three of them work for the American People, not the President.

If there is a linkage to US Intelligence and US National Security the Intelligence IG absolutely has a dog in that fight. The IG absolutely has relevance and a role to play as does the Whistleblower as does the Congress. The President is not above the law and is not above the National Security interests of the United States nor is the President the ultimate arbiter of the National Security interests of the United States.

This entire incident smacks of absurdity. Do we actually think the Founders intention was and that they in fact did create s circumstance of a stark raving mad sitting President being allowed his stark raving mad will just because the American People elected him President?

I will tell you who had gone stark raving mad....any idiot that that gives this Trumpian nonsense even the benefit of the doubt.
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Correct, absolutely,


Now then there is a bogus argument going around that the whistleblower's complaint is "invading privileged presidential communication".


That's absurd, whistleblowing is not about invading legitimate privileged communication, it's about exposing wrongdoing, when and wherever it occurs.

Presidential communication that rises to a level of "egregious wrongdoing" is not protected under the privileged communication principle.

Without whistleblower protection, we move closer to fascism, and with Barr as AG and Trump as prez, we are, indeed, a lot closer to it.
 
ludin said:
it isn't a technical point at all. it is called facts.
mueller gave no opinion trump is innocent until proven guilty.

since mueller gave no opinion it means that trump is innocent.
more so since barr and rosenstien both cleared him of any wrong doing.

you can't seem to get this through your head.

sure it would because mueller was playing politics.
mueller gave no opinion on the obstruction charges.

which means he defers to his boss which was rosenstien.
rosenstien and barr both found that there was not enough evidence
for an obstruction charge.
Click to expand...


Now get this through your head...

He said the report does NOT exonerate Trump. That's an opinion. It's the same thing as saying, "I'm not going to accuse Trump, but it's possible he committed crimes, I'll let Congress decide".

I know you want it to be something that totally serves the right wing agenda, but sorry, it ain't so.


He may be innocent of a crime, but he's not innocent of impeachable acts, but whether that's true or not, the report leaves it for Congress to decide.


Both Rosenstein and Barr are Trump appointees, and they are not the final word on what is, or what is not, impeachable, congress is, and they are, albeit slowly, headed in that direction.


Moreover, the crime shoe may yet drop, there re more investigations into this taxes and finances.
 
HumblePi said:
Is this a surprise to anyone?

This is a departure from the law. It's spelled out, in black and white, that complaints such as this from a whistle blower that's been deemed by the Inspector General to be 'urgent', will be covered up by Trump and the DNI. The complaint cleared an initial hurdle when the Inspector General Michael Atkinson, deemed it credible and began to pursue an investigation. But it has prompted a standoff between lawmakers and the acting director of national intelligence, Joseph Maguire, who has refused to turn it over to Congress, as is required by law.

Trump claims this is 'fake news'. Sounding authoritarian much yet? Really people, get a grip on reality and see things for what they are not for what Trump or Fox tells you they are. The writing is on the wall for everyone to see. The president and DNI are obstructing justice and in this case it may indeed be a serious matter of national security. Don't you care enough about this country to show at least a little concern or curiosity as to what this "urgent" alarm was all about?
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Adam Schiff. That’s all anyone has to say. Forgetaboutit.
 
jnug said:
The IG has not been allowed to forward the information. The whistleblower may ultimately decide to speak through intermediaries if the information that he or she has delivered to the IG does not get passed on to the Congress. However at this moment the whistleblower has coverage under the whistleblower protection laws. If the whistleblower himself or herself speaks directly to the American People or to the media he risks his whistleblower protection. It is the IG who must provide the information directly to the Congress and/or the DNI who must provide the information directly to the Congress.

As I stated much earlier, this was a bad bad decision on the part of Bill Barr to stick his nose into this for the person he considers his client, the President. This is already leaking out and in a way that does not afford the President any cover. If the DNI had simply allowed the IG to provide the appropriate Committee of Congress in Executive Session or the Gang of 8 the information, then there is that control mechanism. As it is now, it is almost all out already not more than hours after first being revealed and Barr and Trump are going to end up having dug the biggest hole of the Trump Presidency as it relates to abuse of power and obstruction of justice. That is saying something in this Presidency.
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Here's more on the story: Whistleblower Complaint Against Trump Reportedly Involves Ukraine | HuffPost
 
OscarLevant said:
Spare us your emotional strawman arguments.

Wrongdoing is not "privileged communication", and the whole point of whistleblowing is to blow the whistle on it, duh.

The arbiter of this wrongdoing is Congress, not the ( alleged ) wrongdoer ( Trump, or any of his cabs or appointees ).


If this were not true, we'd have fascism.


Tell me you do not support fascism, say it isn't so.
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If you knew what a strawman arguments was, I would spare you.

You compare Executive Privilege to being pulled over by a cop and then leap to fascism, and then complain about strawman arguments? Please
 
ludin said:
actually he did, and the AG's over the investigation cleared trump of obstruction as well.
no there was no obstruction no matter how much you want there to be.
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No, the Mueller report did not clear Trump of obstruction. Read paragraph 6, below and report back to me:

What the Mueller Report Says About Obstruction - FactCheck.org

"If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards we are unable to reach that judgement".
 
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beefheart said:
I read your posts.
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THen you would know I have made the same comment before, Many times before. The problem with the left is, if for any reason anyone comments about a law or the constitution and it is somehow beneficial to Trump, you all jump to the conclusion that they taking up for Trump. Perfect example. I only posted information about the executive privilege and how it is used by a president, never mentioning Trump at all, you immediately conclude I am a cultist and I only support EVERYTHING Trump does.

Its to bad the left has such a hard on for Trump that you can't even have a conversation about anything without the same ole garbage and attacks over and over.
 
independentusa said:
You do realize the language that allows congress to make laws is contained in our constitution, while there is not a single word that even mentions "executive privilege" or such a concept. That bit of trash is something devised by our courts, the same as in the Roe and Citizens decisions. Not only that but as Nixon found out, the privilege does not cover illegal activities or investigations by the Congress.
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Yes, I do. Executive privilege is the power of the president of the United States and other members of the executive branch of the United States Government to resist certain subpoenas and other interventions by the legislative and judicial branches of government in pursuit of information or personnel relating to confidential communications that would impair governmental functions. The power of Congress or the federal courts to obtain such information is not mentioned explicitly in the United States Constitution, nor is there any explicit mention in the Constitution of an executive privilege to resist such requests from Congress or courts.

The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled this privilege may qualify as an element of the separation of powers doctrine, derived from the supremacy of the executive branch in its own area of Constitutional activity.

Executive privilege - Wikipedia
 
Condor060 said:
Yes, I do. Executive privilege is the power of the president of the United States and other members of the executive branch of the United States Government to resist certain subpoenas and other interventions by the legislative and judicial branches of government in pursuit of information or personnel relating to confidential communications that would impair governmental functions. The power of Congress or the federal courts to obtain such information is not mentioned explicitly in the United States Constitution, nor is there any explicit mention in the Constitution of an executive privilege to resist such requests from Congress or courts.

The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled this privilege may qualify as an element of the separation of powers doctrine, derived from the supremacy of the executive branch in its own area of Constitutional activity.

Executive privilege - Wikipedia
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Which is not the case being made by DOJ in this matter. Executive Privilege is not yet in play here. It has not as yet been asserted.

Some in the WH are vocally yammering about Executive Privilege but that his not what DOJ asserted in writing. The WH goon squad spends all day shouting Executive Privilege. That is all they do.

If a foreign invasion force landed on the banks of the Potomac the WH goon squad would yell Executive Privilege in their faces assuming that would do something.
 
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jnug said:
Which is not the case being made by DOJ in this matter. Executive Privilege is not yet in play here. It has not as yet been asserted.

Some in the WH are vocally yammering about Executive Privilege but that his not what DOJ asserted in writing. The WH goon squad spends all day shouting Executive Privilege. That is all they do.

If a foreign invasion force landed on the banks of the Potomac the WH goon squad would yell Executive Privilege in their faces assuming that would do something.
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I agree thus far. We will have to see how it plays out.
 
ludin said:
mueller report no evidence.
kavanaugh actually didn't rape anyone.
there is no evidence that trump loans are backed by russia.
there is no evidence in fact a 2 year investigation says otherwise.
so there we go that was simple.

again not that you care about facts.
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Except the everything you just said is untrue...
 
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