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The Legacy of Clinton: Not Hillary

Obscurity

Obscurity

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So, I'd like to open a thread about the Legacy of Bill Clinton. Love him, hate him, I want to look at his achievements, his detriments, and the lasting impact he has had on US politics.

What do you think of Mr. Clinton?

My take: Mr Clinton almost irrevocably damaged the Democratic party, destroying the FDR legacy, and centering the Democratic party, until 2019, on centre right policy perspectives and centre right views on social issues. His "triangulation" strategy destroyed left leaning considerations in the eyes of many, which has extended to this day.
 
My take. The way it goes - if something good happens while you are President , you get to take a victory lap.
If something bad happens- you get slammed.Most times, neither thing is not related to anything the President does. ( or not much)
So Clinton mostly gets to take a victory lap.
One thing though. If you want to talk about party stuff. If CLinton would have resigned , the Dems could have taken the high road and Al Gore would have coasted to the WH.

His ego overrode him taking one for the team.
 
Obscurity said:
So, I'd like to open a thread about the Legacy of Bill Clinton. Love him, hate him, I want to look at his achievements, his detriments, and the lasting impact he has had on US politics.

What do you think of Mr. Clinton?

My take: Mr Clinton almost irrevocably damaged the Democratic party, destroying the FDR legacy, and centering the Democratic party, until 2019, on centre right policy perspectives and centre right views on social issues. His "triangulation" strategy destroyed left leaning considerations in the eyes of many, which has extended to this day.
Click to expand...

Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton did pretty much everything they could have realistically done to try and pass single payer health care back in the 90s. Republicans called it Hillarycare Socalism and got the bill killed. In fact, as recently as 2008 Hillary Clinton was still advocating for Single payer just like Bernie is now, and she probably would have succeeded in getting it, but everyone who loves Bernie now voted for Obama instead.

Thanks to Bill Clinton we can say that we're the only major political party that has tried to reduce the deficit and tackle the national debt. I also recall there was some serious concern about President Obama's re-election in 2012 until Bill Clinton took the stage at the Democratic National Convention and gave an incredible speech in support of him. He also successfully brought an end to 12 years of terrible Reaganomic policies and presided over the most successful economies in American history.

Clinton remains one of the most popular Presidents in modern history, so maybe you should think again before trashing him too much.
 
MrWonka said:
Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton did pretty much everything they could have realistically done to try and pass single payer health care back in the 90s. Republicans called it Hillarycare Socalism and got the bill killed. In fact, as recently as 2008 Hillary Clinton was still advocating for Single payer just like Bernie is now, and she probably would have succeeded in getting it, but everyone who loves Bernie now voted for Obama instead.

Thanks to Bill Clinton we can say that we're the only major political party that has tried to reduce the deficit and tackle the national debt. I also recall there was some serious concern about President Obama's re-election in 2012 until Bill Clinton took the stage at the Democratic National Convention and gave an incredible speech in support of him. He also successfully brought an end to 12 years of terrible Reaganomic policies and presided over the most successful economies in American history.

Clinton remains one of the most popular Presidents in modern history, so maybe you should think again before trashing him too much.
Click to expand...

My opinion of him is my own; popularity be damned. His "new democrat" garbage allowed the right wing to beat the war drums while he took a "high road".

See how much that helped us?
 
Obscurity said:
So, I'd like to open a thread about the Legacy of Bill Clinton. Love him, hate him, I want to look at his achievements, his detriments, and the lasting impact he has had on US politics.

What do you think of Mr. Clinton?

My take: Mr Clinton almost irrevocably damaged the Democratic party, destroying the FDR legacy, and centering the Democratic party, until 2019, on centre right policy perspectives and centre right views on social issues. His "triangulation" strategy destroyed left leaning considerations in the eyes of many, which has extended to this day.
Click to expand...

I'd pretty much agree with this take, though I will say that he alone was not the cause of the party's abandonment of its FDR tradition in favour of neoliberalism; that change had been brewing since the mid-late 70s, not coincidentally when the SCOTUS of that time made its historically disastrous 'money is speech' ruling per Buckley v Valeo 76 (that everyone seems to forget about even while they scream incessantly about its off-shoot symptom, Citizens United). However, he did cement the oblivion of the FDR wing's political power, and was iconic of the party's discarding of FDR's legacy and ideas in favour of a pro-corporate, pro-wealthy agenda, that subsequently relied on wedge issues like gun control, and identity politics to smokescreen and plaster over its rightward economic shift, and the fact that it had largely stopped championing the economic interests of working and middle class constituents.

Half the reason establishment Dems are so leery of progressives, and wagon circle whenever given half the chance is that they are terrified that they'll be displaced, just as they displaced the FDR wing back in the 80s and 90s.
 
Surrealistik said:
I'd pretty much agree with this take, though I will say that he alone was not the cause of the party's abandonment of its FDR tradition in favour of neoliberalism; that change had been brewing since the mid-late 70s, not coincidentally when the SCOTUS of that time made its historically disastrous 'money is speech' ruling per Buckley v Valeo 76 (that everyone seems to forget about even while they scream incessantly about its off-shoot symptom, Citizens United). However, he did cement the oblivion of the FDR wing's political power, and was iconic of the party's discarding of FDR's legacy and ideas in favour of a pro-corporate, pro-wealthy agenda, that subsequently relied on wedge issues like gun control, and identity politics to smokescreen and plaster over its rightward economic shift, and the fact that it had largely stopped championing the economic interests of working and middle class constituents.

Half the reason establishment Dems are so leery of progressives, and wagon circle whenever given half the chance is that they are terrified that they'll be displaced, just as they displaced the FDR wing back in the 80s and 90s.
Click to expand...

Excellent post and one I whole heartedly agree with. And yes, the Valeo76 ruling was a total disaster.
 
MrWonka said:
B
Thanks to Bill Clinton we can say that we're the only major political party that has tried to reduce the deficit and tackle the national debt. h.
Click to expand...

no no no no wrong wrong wrong lie lie lie . You can say it but it's not true
The main reasons the deficit was reduced were the economic boom ( not ata ll related to anything Clinton did ) and the **** GOP Congress'**** brake on federal spending.

Please retract this sentence for accuracy's sake .
 
MrWonka said:
Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton did pretty much everything they could have realistically done to try and pass single payer health care back in the 90s. Republicans called it Hillarycare Socalism and got the bill killed. In fact, as recently as 2008 Hillary Clinton was still advocating for Single payer just like Bernie is now, and she probably would have succeeded in getting it, but everyone who loves Bernie now voted for Obama instead.

Thanks to Bill Clinton we can say that we're the only major political party that has tried to reduce the deficit and tackle the national debt. I also recall there was some serious concern about President Obama's re-election in 2012 until Bill Clinton took the stage at the Democratic National Convention and gave an incredible speech in support of him. He also successfully brought an end to 12 years of terrible Reaganomic policies and presided over the most successful economies in American history.

Clinton remains one of the most popular Presidents in modern history, so maybe you should think again before trashing him too much.
Click to expand...

Warmongering sociopath & Rape Queen Hillary was so committed to health care reform that she REPEATEDLY said in 2008 that she did NOT support single payer, and of course again attacked health care reforms advocated by Bernie in 2016.

Why claim otherwise? :shrug:
 
3leftsdoo said:
Warmongering sociopath & Rape Queen Hillary was so committed to health care reform that she REPEATEDLY said in 2008 that she did NOT support single payer, and of course again attacked health care reforms advocated by Bernie in 2016.

Why claim otherwise? :shrug:
Click to expand...

Because it's just a fact that she pushed for single-payer healthcare long before Bernie and that's the reason she was hated. She lost and realized the country wasn't ready for single-payer and brought another solution. Obama was against the individual mandate that Hillary proposed but ultimately it won out.
 
Obscurity said:
So, I'd like to open a thread about the Legacy of Bill Clinton. Love him, hate him, I want to look at his achievements, his detriments, and the lasting impact he has had on US politics.

What do you think of Mr. Clinton?

My take: Mr Clinton almost irrevocably damaged the Democratic party, destroying the FDR legacy, and centering the Democratic party, until 2019, on centre right policy perspectives and centre right views on social issues. His "triangulation" strategy destroyed left leaning considerations in the eyes of many, which has extended to this day.
Click to expand...

The Clintons are to the Democrat Party as the Macbeths to Duncan.

Utter sociopathic scum, but vastly less sympathetic than their dramatic cohorts.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Because it's just a fact that she pushed for single-payer healthcare long before Bernie and that's the reason she was hated. She lost and realized the country wasn't ready for single-payer and brought another solution. Obama was against the individual mandate that Hillary proposed but ultimately it won out.
Click to expand...

It's a FACT that the Queen of Rape REPEATEDLY attacked single payer in 2008, and this is a large part of why smoother criminal Obama beat her out.

I still remember Awesome Barry wincing as she blurted out her opposition to single payer during a debate.

Why fabricate claims about warmongering sociopath Hillary?

:shrug:
 
Obscurity said:
So, I'd like to open a thread about the Legacy of Bill Clinton. Love him, hate him, I want to look at his achievements, his detriments, and the lasting impact he has had on US politics.

What do you think of Mr. Clinton?

My take: Mr Clinton almost irrevocably damaged the Democratic party, destroying the FDR legacy, and centering the Democratic party, until 2019, on centre right policy perspectives and centre right views on social issues. His "triangulation" strategy destroyed left leaning considerations in the eyes of many, which has extended to this day.
Click to expand...

No president is perfect. He made some very serious mistakes regarding NAFTA and crime reform. I think welfare reform was actually something he got right.

Bank deregulation (getting rid of Glass-Steagall) was a disaster. NAFTA was good for the economy but wrecked rust belt Democrats.

But he slashed the deficit and even had a surplus. He did a great job handling the economy.
 
3leftsdoo said:
It's a FACT that the Queen of Rape REPEATEDLY attacked single payer in 2008, and this is a large part of why smoother criminal Obama beat her out.

I still remember Awesome Barry wincing as she blurted out her opposition to single payer during a debate.

Why fabricate claims about warmongering sociopath Hillary?

:shrug:
Click to expand...

The only real difference between Obama's proposal and Hillary's was the individual mandate. Single-payer would never have passed or been acceptable to voters back in 2007. It's still not very popular today. But Hillary did try and push for single-payer back in 1993. She learned that the country was not ready.

Why fabricate claims about Hillary?
 
Surrealistik said:
I'd pretty much agree with this take, though I will say that he alone was not the cause of the party's abandonment of its FDR tradition in favour of neoliberalism; that change had been brewing since the mid-late 70s, not coincidentally when the SCOTUS of that time made its historically disastrous 'money is speech' ruling per Buckley v Valeo 76 (that everyone seems to forget about even while they scream incessantly about its off-shoot symptom, Citizens United). However, he did cement the oblivion of the FDR wing's political power, and was iconic of the party's discarding of FDR's legacy and ideas in favour of a pro-corporate, pro-wealthy agenda, that subsequently relied on wedge issues like gun control, and identity politics to smokescreen and plaster over its rightward economic shift, and the fact that it had largely stopped championing the economic interests of working and middle class constituents.

Half the reason establishment Dems are so leery of progressives, and wagon circle whenever given half the chance is that they are terrified that they'll be displaced, just as they displaced the FDR wing back in the 80s and 90s.
Click to expand...

:applaud:applaud
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
The only real difference between Obama's proposal and Hillary's was the individual mandate. Single-payer would never have passed or been acceptable to voters back in 2007. It's still not very popular today. But Hillary did try and push for single-payer back in 1993. She learned that the country was not ready.

Why fabricate claims about Hillary?
Click to expand...

Indeed: why?

And why repeatedly defend fabricated claims about Queen of Rape Hillary with deflections and more fabrications?

:shrug:
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
No president is perfect. He made some very serious mistakes regarding NAFTA and crime reform. I think welfare reform was actually something he got right.

Bank deregulation (getting rid of Glass-Steagall) was a disaster. NAFTA was good for the economy but wrecked rust belt Democrats.

But he slashed the deficit and even had a surplus. He did a great job handling the economy.
Click to expand...

Clinton's 'success' with the deficit and the economy was a product of the dot-com boom which he frankly had very little to do with.

And NAFTA was concerned about exclusively with the interests of the corporations that were instrumental in authoring and advising on it; any run on or 'trickle down' effects that might benefit the plebeians were completely incidental. Few material contingencies and preparations were included in its drafting and or pursued in its aftermath to help offset the damage it might do to workers in affected sectors.

The man is easily one of the most overrated presidents ever as a consequence of his auspicious circumstances.
 
Surrealistik said:
Clinton's 'success' with the deficit and the economy was a product of the dot-com boom which he frankly had very little to do with.

And NAFTA was concerned about exclusively with the interests of the corporations that were instrumental in authoring and advising on it; any run on or 'trickle down' effects that might benefit the plebeians were completely incidental. Few material contingencies and preparations were included in its drafting and or pursued in its aftermath to help offset the damage it might do to workers in affected sectors.

The man is easily one of the most overrated presidents ever as a consequence of his auspicious circumstances.
Click to expand...

And JFK nearly destroyed the world because of the Bay of Pigs which led to the Cuban Missile Crisis.
LBJ used the FBI to spy on his opponents.
Nixon was totally corrupt.
Ford? *shrug*
Reagan was a racist and exploded the deficit.

You have to cut presidents some slack. Who do you feel was better than Clinton?

Clinton got elected and saved us from more conservative judges. He did his best to push for single payer health care, a bold move in 1992. He balanced his budgets and left a surplus.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
And JFK nearly destroyed the world because of the Bay of Pigs which led to the Cuban Missile Crisis.
LBJ used the FBI to spy on his opponents.
Nixon was totally corrupt.
Ford? *shrug*
Reagan was a racist and exploded the deficit.

You have to cut presidents some slack. Who do you feel was better than Clinton?
Click to expand...

FDR, hands down, easily; the guy whose legacy and principles Clinton and Democrats in general have spat on since the 80s. Yes, he isn't without sin, such as in the case of the Japanese American internment camps, but it's essentially a drop in the bucket next to the great things he did and was directly responsible for, and he is routinely considered the best or second best president in history for good reason.

Clinton got elected and saved us from more conservative judges. He did his best to push for single payer health care, a bold move in 1992. He balanced his budgets and left a surplus.
Click to expand...

The latter he only achieved because the circumstances of the economy at the time permitted it; his policies and executive orders weren't largely responsible.

I will certainly give him an earnest attempt at singlepayer unlike Obama, who didn't even really try to get a public option, but there's precious little good I can say beyond that, particularly as he was the definitive harbinger of the Democrat party's neoliberal takeover, and the disenfranchisement of the FDR wing.

If it makes you feel better, Reagan was even more overrated, which is certainly saying something.
 
Obscurity said:
So, I'd like to open a thread about the Legacy of Bill Clinton. Love him, hate him, I want to look at his achievements, his detriments, and the lasting impact he has had on US politics.

What do you think of Mr. Clinton?

My take: Mr Clinton almost irrevocably damaged the Democratic party, destroying the FDR legacy, and centering the Democratic party, until 2019, on centre right policy perspectives and centre right views on social issues. His "triangulation" strategy destroyed left leaning considerations in the eyes of many, which has extended to this day.
Click to expand...

Correct. Centering the party was a short term solution, and perhaps it even worked. The long term consequences is that it led to the belief that both parties were the same and that voters didn't really have a choice. I couldn't say how responsible this was for the current situation, but I think the resulting feeling of powerlessness among voters contributed in some measure to the populism you see today.
 
Obscurity said:
So, I'd like to open a thread about the Legacy of Bill Clinton. Love him, hate him, I want to look at his achievements, his detriments, and the lasting impact he has had on US politics.

What do you think of Mr. Clinton?

My take: Mr Clinton almost irrevocably damaged the Democratic party, destroying the FDR legacy, and centering the Democratic party, until 2019, on centre right policy perspectives and centre right views on social issues. His "triangulation" strategy destroyed left leaning considerations in the eyes of many, which has extended to this day.
Click to expand...



I don't know

Hillary got the 3rd most votes in election history even though she lost the electoral college

Even creamed your boy Bernie in the Dem primary.

Pretty impressive
 
Luther said:
I don't know

Hillary got the 3rd most votes in election history even though she lost the electoral college

Even creamed your boy Bernie in the Dem primary.

Pretty impressive
Click to expand...

She may have beaten Sanders in the primary, but Bernie won the war. Democratic politics haven't been this far left since the Dems destroyed the FDR wing in a ridiculous attempt at appealing to Reagan voters.
 
Obscurity said:
She may have beaten Sanders in the primary, but Bernie won the war. Democratic politics haven't been this far left since the Dems destroyed the FDR wing in a ridiculous attempt at appealing to Reagan voters.
Click to expand...

It also had a lot to do with them taking in all that sweet corporate cash after Buckley v Valeo.
 
Obscurity said:
She may have beaten Sanders in the primary, but Bernie won the war. Democratic politics haven't been this far left since the Dems destroyed the FDR wing in a ridiculous attempt at appealing to Reagan voters.
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but Bernie won the war. Democratic politics haven't been this far left since
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As far as a real victory, what has happened?
 
Luther said:
As far as a real victory, what has happened?
Click to expand...

What has happened? Fdr policies are mainstream again. The tide is turning against centrist morons like biden who destroyed the fdr wing.
 
Obscurity said:
What has happened? Fdr policies are mainstream again. The tide is turning against centrist morons like biden who destroyed the fdr wing.
Click to expand...

So what Bernie policies (In place) are like FDR's in place policies?
 
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