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Young People Really Are Stupid

Unless you have a ready supply of oranges (your latest metaphor for solar/wind energy?) then making demands that those oranges be properly distributed immediately is useless. As I see it, it is not the cost of solar/wind energy power generation that is the issue - it is whether a given power plant (or motor vehicle) can be converted from coal, oil or gas (fossil fuel) to wind/solar at all with currently available technology (even if sufficient funds could be made available).

Actually, my attempted analogy was that it is a crisis situation, but we don't know bad the crisis is. The time of fossil fuel energy is coming to an end, and it is time to stop subsidizing them. Subsidies should be going to emerging industries, not mature ones with politicians waiting to suck their wallet for campaign contributions. There is data on the decreasing cost of producing renewables, and if you think storage is a problem remember that floppy discs were very expensive, and now I have a free 4GB usb drive in my pocket.
 
Actually, my attempted analogy was that it is a crisis situation, but we don't know bad the crisis is. The time of fossil fuel energy is coming to an end, and it is time to stop subsidizing them. Subsidies should be going to emerging industries, not mature ones with politicians waiting to suck their wallet for campaign contributions. There is data on the decreasing cost of producing renewables, and if you think storage is a problem remember that floppy discs were very expensive, and now I have a free 4GB usb drive in my pocket.

I agree that renewable energy technology (including battery storage) is improving - I now use more battery powered tools than corded or IC engine powered. Alternative energy subsidies and tax breaks (often one and the same) now exceed those for fossil fuels but, IMHO, the use of ethanol is not a viable alternative and should be phased out.
 
It's what comes of a relentless campaign of brainwashing and scaremongering. This has nothing whatever to do with saving the Earth and everything to do with upending society as it's constructed in the West and transferring political power permanently to those who want to run your life and take your wealth. It's ALL political. Never forget that.

I would suggest that upending society may be the only way we can save the earth. In America, 1% of the population has 55 times the wealth of the bottom 50% (U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time). Sounds a little like Paris in 1788.
 
The fewer the new bodies on the planet, the better.

Best decision that generation has made yet.
 
I agree that renewable energy technology (including battery storage) is improving - I now use more battery powered tools than corded or IC engine powered. Alternative energy subsidies and tax breaks (often one and the same) now exceed those for fossil fuels but, IMHO, the use of ethanol is not a viable alternative and should be phased out.

I'd suggest that America is doing ethanol wrong. We can grow sawgrass or other grasses in fields that are laying fallow (sorry if the terminology is wrong) without using the herbicides, fertilizers, and gasoline corn requires. Ethanol can be an interim help while major change occurs.
 
The good part about all those countries not having children (and eventually fail to be a country) is America would rise in the stats on happiness, health care, infrastructure and other important issues. We'd rise up to perhaps 17th.
 
I would suggest that upending society may be the only way we can save the earth. In America, 1% of the population has 55 times the wealth of the bottom 50% (U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time). Sounds a little like Paris in 1788.

The answer to that is making the bottom richer, not the top poorer. Debt is a separate issue and one we will have to reckon with. Destroying the greatest wealth generating system in history is not the solution.
 
Unless you have a ready supply of oranges (your latest metaphor for solar/wind energy?) then making demands that those oranges be properly distributed immediately is useless. As I see it, it is not the cost of solar/wind energy power generation that is the issue - it is whether a given power plant (or motor vehicle) can be converted from coal, oil or gas (fossil fuel) to wind/solar at all with currently available technology (even if sufficient funds could be made available).

If one person has a supply of oranges, and the crew is dying of scurvy, then what's liable to happen is the owner of the oranges will raise the cost to the point that the average crew member can't afford it. That's more of an insulin metaphor, but there's more: So, the crew gets together and decides to collectively pay for oranges for everyone (UHC solution to the cost of insulin, you see). Everyone is happy until the collective crew can no longer afford to purchase oranges. When that happens, the crew mutinies and takes possession of the oranges. The crew then fights over the orange supply until most of them are overboard and lost forever. Then, the crew dies of scurvy and the ship becomes a ghost ship.

That's how humans tend to resolve problems.
 
The answer to that is making the bottom richer, not the top poorer. Debt is a separate issue and one we will have to reckon with. Destroying the greatest wealth generating system in history is not the solution.

The greatest wealth generating system in history is the exact system that has resulted in creating the climate crisis we are involved in. Your description of making the poor richer would require growing the pie, and that requires continuing to grow the system we haven't been able to control.
 
The greatest wealth generating system in history is the exact system that has resulted in creating the climate crisis we are involved in. Your description of making the poor richer would require growing the pie, and that requires continuing to grow the system we haven't been able to control.

There is no "climate crisis". That is the falsehood being used by those who oppose capitalism for other reasons. If even half of what the Democrats suggest were to be implemented, the country is finished.
 
There is no "climate crisis". That is the falsehood being used by those who oppose capitalism for other reasons. If even half of what the Democrats suggest were to be implemented, the country is finished.

Are you being intentionally ignorant? What would you call the pace of change in climate since the early 1900's? You are going to need some sources on how Democrats would destroy our country.
 
Are you being intentionally ignorant? What would you call the pace of change in climate since the early 1900's? You are going to need some sources on how Democrats would destroy our country.

Again, there is no evidence that temperatures are fluctuating anymore than in the past, that man is having an undue effect on them or that, even if we were, that we could do anything about it. The climate change activists won't even talk about the real polluters, China and India. Instead, they want to punish Americans. Oh, and as for Democrats, giving free healthcare to illegals would cost trillions, Medicare for all, more trillions, the Green New Deal as much as 20 times the total annual Federal budget not to mention putting millions out of work and driving the stock market into a free fall. Just a small dose of their insanity will destroy the economy in short order.
 
1 Again, there is no evidence that temperatures are fluctuating anymore than in the past, that man is having an undue effect on them or that, even if we were, that we could do anything about it. 2 The climate change activists won't even talk about the real polluters, China and India. Instead, they want to punish Americans. 3 Oh, and as for Democrats, giving free healthcare to illegals would cost trillions, 4 Medicare for all, more trillions, 5 the Green New Deal as much as 20 times the total annual Federal budget not to mention putting millions out of work and driving the stock market into a free fall. Just a small dose of their insanity will destroy the economy in short order.

1 It that's the case, then:
2. it doesn't matter who is polluting the most, as it has no effect anyway.
3. Giving free health care to, say, 10 million illegals will cost trillions, or hundreds of thousands per illegal. Wow, that' some health care.
4. Fewer trillions than we're spending now on the current health care system,
5. The Green New Deal is a non binding resolution to try to curb greenhouse gasses, which you don't believe have any effect on climate anyway. Why would it cost "20 times the federal budget?" Those figures appear to have been picked out of the air.

Is it a requirement of all conservatives that they reject modern science and basic mathematics?
 
Again, there is no evidence that temperatures are fluctuating anymore than in the past, that man is having an undue effect on them or that, even if we were, that we could do anything about it. The climate change activists won't even talk about the real polluters, China and India. Instead, they want to punish Americans. Oh, and as for Democrats, giving free healthcare to illegals would cost trillions, Medicare for all, more trillions, the Green New Deal as much as 20 times the total annual Federal budget not to mention putting millions out of work and driving the stock market into a free fall. Just a small dose of their insanity will destroy the economy in short order.

All of your claims require something more than your opinion. Here is an example, China does pollute more than the US, but India doesn't. You can say it, but it doesn't make it true.
 
About the same way it has worked out throughout history.

Don't recognize the date? 1789 was the French Revolution, where the masses rose up, and the top suffered. The rich retained much of their power, but lost substantial population.
are you willing to make that bet?
 
There is no "climate crisis". That is the falsehood being used by those who oppose capitalism for other reasons. If even half of what the Democrats suggest were to be implemented, the country is finished.

Most of those green energy and climate proposals would boost the economy and create more jobs, just like FDR's new deal. They would not end capitalism, despite your chicken little claims.
 
Most of those green energy and climate proposals would boost the economy and create more jobs, just like FDR's new deal. They would not end capitalism, despite your chicken little claims.

They'd cost as much as $90 TRILLION dollars and utterly destroy the economy. Only leftist children can't figure this out.
 
All of your claims require something more than your opinion. Here is an example, China does pollute more than the US, but India doesn't. You can say it, but it doesn't make it true.

India is much less industrialized than the US so being 4th in the world is a horrible record. They aren't really doing much about it. Most all of the plastic in the ocean also comes from Asia and Africa but the environmentalists don't even talk about that.
 
1 It that's the case, then:
2. it doesn't matter who is polluting the most, as it has no effect anyway.
3. Giving free health care to, say, 10 million illegals will cost trillions, or hundreds of thousands per illegal. Wow, that' some health care.
4. Fewer trillions than we're spending now on the current health care system,
5. The Green New Deal is a non binding resolution to try to curb greenhouse gasses, which you don't believe have any effect on climate anyway. Why would it cost "20 times the federal budget?" Those figures appear to have been picked out of the air.

Is it a requirement of all conservatives that they reject modern science and basic mathematics?

It only matters who pollutes most to the extent that they foul the environment not to the extent that they will bring on some climate calamity. So, people here illegally should get free healthcare which law abiding citizens pay for. Really? That's a position you want to run on? I hate to tell you but that's DOA. The GND estimates are between 30 and 90 trillion dollars. The total current budget is $4 trillion. Do the math. That aside, the idea that we should destroy the fossil fuel industry, probably the biggest wealth generator we have, is total insanity. It's also impossible as we have nothing to replace it with.
 
India is much less industrialized than the US so being 4th in the world is a horrible record. They aren't really doing much about it. Most all of the plastic in the ocean also comes from Asia and Africa but the environmentalists don't even talk about that.

Well that's not what you said in your earlier comment is it? Environmentalists are talking about it, and where do you suppose the majority of that plastic is produced?
 
It only matters who pollutes most to the extent that they foul the environment not to the extent that they will bring on some climate calamity. So, people here illegally should get free healthcare which law abiding citizens pay for. Really? That's a position you want to run on? I hate to tell you but that's DOA. The GND estimates are between 30 and 90 trillion dollars. The total current budget is $4 trillion. Do the math. That aside, the idea that we should destroy the fossil fuel industry, probably the biggest wealth generator we have, is total insanity. It's also impossible as we have nothing to replace it with.

What is gnd? Does less than 9% of our GDP sound like our biggest wealth generator to you? Not me. Time to update your sources...
 
Don't recognize the date? 1789 was the French Revolution, where the masses rose up, and the top suffered. The rich retained much of their power, but lost substantial population.
are you willing to make that bet?

and that's generally how it worked out throughout history, isn't it?
 
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