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Nothing has chased away more Christians then the evangelicals.

yankintx said:
Is the same Trump who try persuade girl friend Marla Maples to abort Tiff ?
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He 100% supported abortion till he became a right wing candidate.
 
For shame on Rump. Wanting his mistress to abort Tiff the stiff.
 
Oborosen said:
Seeing as all I've ever seen him really say on RvW is that maybe one day it'll go to the states.

Also just saying "makes all the rest of the evil acceptable" doesn't really prove anything, not even anything being evil. Though claiming that something is evil, is practically all you have right now.

So I don't blame you for using the only ammo that you've got.
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And what happens when it goes to the states? One thing about conservatives, they sure are hunky dory with the government spedning endless amounts of money re-litigating abortion. The second the might of the Fed is out of the way, the national life groups will focus on every state they can, and turn billions of dollars on them in endless litigation.
 
Felis Leo said:
Really? That is why pro-Life men and women do this? That is the reason they gave you verbatim when you asked it of them?
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Plenty of pro-life women simply parrot what their husband's say. At the gym there is a group of older ladies constantly talking politics. Every time I hear one of them get challenged, they say "well, my husband says..."

Conservative women tend to have a more traditional roll in a marriage - nothing wrong with that - but it seems to me they are inclined to simply agree with their husbands.
 
yankintx said:
Is the same Trump who try persuade girl friend Marla Maples to abort Tiff ?
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Apparently the fact that he is such as slug of a human being is part of what makes him such a miraculous leader. God works in mysterious ways, and all that. He takes the most putrid turd in the realm of American politics and raises that slimeball up to be the instrument of His divine will.

Well, some people say that the person who said he never asked God for forgiveness for anything DID properly ask God for forgiveness and was born again and we're supposed to forget his vile past ... and ignore his vile present ... because he is born again. But a lot of people say that his very horrificness as a human being is evidence that he is God's instrument.

So, basically, whatever excuse they need to help them sleep at night after selling out all the principles they were raised with.
 
jbander said:
Good point but I expect a Christian to act like a Christian. It's not that complicated . they have a rule book to follow and when I see it ignored because of their perceived gains over what is right, then they are fake Christians
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I call them CHINOs; CHristians In Name Only. There are plenty here.
 
COTO said:
Why are you not making any distinction between evangelical Christians and Christians who voted for Pres. Trump?

What about evangelical Christians outside the US?

And are you speaking to evangelical Christians who voted for Pres. Trump in 2016 or evangelical Christians who support him today? If the latter, how much support is "support"? Do they have to support everything he does, or just certain things?

I'm also seeing a lot of discussion on abortion. It seems pertinent to mention that abortion and a potential Supreme Court nomination weren't major reasons why self-described evangelical Christians voted for Pres. Trump.

See the analysis here, for example.
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Your link gives "Personal character of the candidate" as the number 1 reason white evangelical pastors gave for voting for Trump, with 27% choosing this option.

A total of 30% chose Supreme Court nominees or abortion as their primary reason.

So you have both proven our point about the prominent position that SCOTUS and abortion had in the decision to hold Trump up as God's chosen leader AND simultaneously shown what deep denial evangelical leadership went into in order to justify choosing someone who not only is an abject slimeball but who bragged in national media about what an abject slimeball he is.

27% of white evangelical pastors declaring that their reason for choosing Trump was his personal character?

You handed the OP a thread win on a silver platter right there.


The pastors were either lying to the pollsters or lying to themselves. And the dutiful evangelical pew sitters followed their lead. In 2017, 50% of white evangelicals polled by Langer Research for ABC said that Trump was a good role model for young people. That is epic delusion, or epic dishonesty. Either way, it's damning.
 
I'm not taking the side of evangelicals and what they want or why they voted. I am a pro-choice Trump supporter though...
Just like those who are completely without faith, people of faith, too, have the right to vote or not vote according to their conscience as well. That's what individual rights are about. And I uphold their rights, even if I don't like what they believe.

There's a lot of misplaced anger on this thread. Actually, if one were to be honest about it all, the reason the lower courts are being filled with those the left won't tolerate is because former president Obama left over 100 federal judgeship vacancies.
If you want to blame someone, put the blame where it belongs, on Trump's predecessor. Trump is simply filling those vacancies because evangelicals are a part of his base and he is pandering to them.

As Obama was known to say, "Elections have consequences."
 
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Felis Leo said:
The vast majority of people, Christians and non-Christians, will support openly immoral people if they are made to believe that the other side is even worse. In that regard, Evangelical Christians are no different than any other group who circles the wagons around "their man."
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But they had plenty of better choices in the primary.

As a Christian, I can tell you that most of these mainstream evangelical leaders are as corrupt as the medieval popes selling indulgences. Christianity is big business to them. And they have mostly abandoned Jesus' teachings.

It's impossible to be Christian and be against universal healthcare. How can a Christian not care about the health of the poor?
 
jbander said:
Personally I don't want to have anything to do with this twisted group. Their Idea of Christianity isn't mine and its rejected more and more by the rest of us everyday. Correlating the idea that you can elect the devil as your leader and still call yourself a Christian , simply is beyond rational thinking.
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I would guess that most would perceive thinking the President is actually Satan is beyond rational thinking. Maybe its why you don't get along with Christians.
 
jbander said:
The insanity is that these evangelicals wanting to bring religion into government is a hoot because they are just about at the bottom of a long line of religions that are ahead of them to influence the government, Starting with the Catholics, then Baptist then Lutherans. We are in no way a Christian nation.
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The founding fathers were very open that the US is not a Christian nation and it was not founded on Christian laws or beliefs. We all have religious beliefs, but religious belief is to be kept absolutely separate from the government for the protection of the secular and religious rights all involved. We can not have equal religious freedom if the government is enforcing religious belief or the religious beliefs of one group over the other. People have the right to pray to and worship a toadstool, a rusty Edsel hubcap, and a broken Stra Wars Pez dispenser but they cannot force other to take part, that others live by their beliefs or that others financially support their religion.

Most of these people have listened to too many lying misters and have read and believed the lies of David Barton. Barton is such a liar that his own publisher withdrew one of his book from the market because of the many mistruths.

It cannot be more clear than Jeffersons Virginia statute for religious freedom and Madison's Memorial and Remonstrance against religious assessments. Read lines 1-11 of Madison's work. It is very clear. Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists has been used by the SCOTUS to understand the meaning of the Establishment Clause that creates a legal wall of separation between religious belief and the government.
 
Condor060 said:
I would guess that most would perceive thinking the President is actually Satan is beyond rational thinking. Maybe its why you don't get along with Christians.
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Satan is a Christian creation. I don't get along with evangelicals and conservative Christians because I have a problem with liars cheats and hypocrites who seek to trample my rights because of their unproven religious delusions. You keep your religious beliefs and the hypocrisy that comes with it to yourself where it belongs because I cannot be forced to live my life by your bronze-age myths.
 
I'm a Christian who is surrounded by evangelicals in my community. I live in the South and they're even in my family. And extended family.

After being around them for decades and decades I can tell you one thing with certainty. They are not religious and they are not Christians. They just pretend they are. They're just fakes.
 
jbander said:
are you nuts, this man is a monster and you say that I can't say anything about that fact. You people are just aimed in any direction that your masters want. Tell me I don't have the right to attack this countries biggest threat .Then move on and tell me I don't have the right to attack my countries biggest enemy. I'll attack with every tool that is available as long as it is legal.
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Seems to me he was saying If all you can do is demean those on the other side of the argument, then you're just revealing that you don't have any intention of coming at this from an intellectually honest position.

How do you come up with all the other hyperbole? Nowhere did he state you can't do anything. You actually made his point quite clear. You really can't see that?
 
Lisa said:
Satan is a Christian creation. I don't get along with evangelicals and conservative Christians because I have a problem with liars cheats and hypocrites who seek to trample my rights because of their unproven religious delusions. You keep your religious beliefs and the hypocrisy that comes with it to yourself where it belongs because I cannot be forced to live my life by your bronze-age myths.
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I never stated I was a Christian or had any religious beliefs so you can save the hate filled name calling for someone else you make idiotic assumptions about.
Typical though.
Thanks
 
prometeus said:
That is a bull crap excuse. Out of all the GOP candidates who made Trump the candidate?
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That is a good point which keeps being brushed under the rug with the "but the only other choice was Hillary" crowd.

The GOP chose Trump to represent them. They had a lot of other people to choose from. They chose Trump.



Here is an interesting piece. In March of 2016, under the heading of Why Evangelicals Support Trump, the author is discussing the results of a poll his company did back in 1987 studying what would have made a politician back then appeal to evangelical Christian voters. Only about 1/3 were motivated by abortion. This is the money quote from the article:

.... we found out what did draw this group toward politics: strong, decisive leaders, not issues. They got involved in politics for the same reason they got involved with their church -- because they were looking for someone to help “show them the way.” Evangelicals were drawn into politics by messianic leaders.
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A little more,

.... Although certainly not Christ-like, Trump is perceived to be strong and bold; a leader that will help evangelicals navigate a world they believe is too often adrift and too different from what they want.

Sen. Ted Cruz’ Iowa/South Carolina strategy would have been very successful in winning evangelicals this year had it not been for Trump. Cruz, another strong, messianic figure, one who even speaks with the cadence of a Southern preacher, would have been the recipient of the evangelical votes this year, and after he won in Iowa the Texas senator might have been on the path to securing the GOP nomination had it not been for an even stronger messianic figure, Donald Trump.
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Amelia said:
Your link gives "Personal character of the candidate" as the number 1 reason white evangelical pastors gave for voting for Trump, with 27% choosing this option.

...

The pastors were either lying to the pollsters or lying to themselves. And the dutiful evangelical pew sitters followed their lead. In 2017, 50% of white evangelicals polled by Langer Research for ABC said that Trump was a good role model for young people. That is epic delusion, or epic dishonesty. Either way, it's damning.
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First of all, we both know why you're quoting the statistics for evangelical pastors and not evangelical Christians. Don't think people won't notice.

Secondly, I would interpret any survey questions about voting decisions as being relative to the opposing candidate(s). Hence if I hypothetically ranked "personal character of the candidate" highly in 2016, it would be because I personally felt Pres. Trump's character was superior to that of Ms. Clinton, not because I considered him to have upstanding moral character. Who's to say this wasn't the thinking of 27% of pastors and 15% of evangelicals overall?

Finally, while I personally wouldn't describe Pres. Trump as a good role model for anybody, your statistic of 50% of evangelicals calling him a good role model (which I'll bet you dollars to dimes is lower than the percentage of Republicans generally who'd call him a good role model) needs to be broken down before it can shock me. Is he a good role model because he's the US President, which is an honourable office of good repute? Is he a good role model because he's better than Hillary Clinton? Is he a good role model because we agree with him more than we don't agree with him? Why did 50% of the respondents think he's a good role model in 2017? What do the numbers say today?

I'm not denying there are hypocritical partisans out there, evangelical Christians among them, who wrongly excuse and defend everything Pres. Trump does. But if you're going to smear people, do it with a small paintbrush, and make sure your main paint can full of smear isn't 96% fantasy.
 
Oborosen said:
Seeing as all I've ever seen him really say on RvW is that maybe one day it'll go to the states.

Also just saying "makes all the rest of the evil acceptable" doesn't really prove anything, not even anything being evil. Though claiming that something is evil, is practically all you have right now.

So I don't blame you for using the only ammo that you've got.
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Trump University... bilking people out of their hard earned money. No, that's not evil...

And Caveat emptor doesn't excuse it.
 
beancounter said:
Trump University... bilking people out of their hard earned money. No, that's not evil...

And Caveat emptor doesn't excuse it.
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I don't even know how to answer the people who pretend that they don't have 1000 reasons to admit that Trump is evil. When they act like I need to show them some evidence, basically it means there's no point in answering, because either they have a special type of impermeability to facts so there's no point in trying to show them any, or they've spent the past years (and possibly decades) seeing evidence of Trumps perfidy and even hearing him brag about it and somehow have discounted it all, so again, no point in answering, because they have already discounted all the evidence I would spend time trying to dig up.

And heaven forbid if I tried to take a focused approach and present a handful of, say, 5 symbolic examples. They would say, "He did five things wrong? That's all you've got. Who hasn't done five things wrong?"


He checks every box for what is dishonorable with a lot of criminal mixed in. But some people act like I pull the word "evil" out of thin air without justification. What is there to say?
 
COTO said:
First of all, we both know why you're quoting the statistics for evangelical pastors and not evangelical Christians. Don't think people won't notice.

Secondly, I would interpret any survey questions about voting decisions as being relative to the opposing candidate(s). Hence if I hypothetically ranked "personal character of the candidate" highly in 2016, it would be because I personally felt Pres. Trump's character was superior to that of Ms. Clinton, not because I considered him to have upstanding moral character. Who's to say this wasn't the thinking of 27% of pastors and 15% of evangelicals overall?

Finally, while I personally wouldn't describe Pres. Trump as a good role model for anybody, your statistic of 50% of evangelicals calling him a good role model (which I'll bet you dollars to dimes is lower than the percentage of Republicans generally who'd call him a good role model) needs to be broken down before it can shock me. Is he a good role model because he's the US President, which is an honourable office of good repute? Is he a good role model because he's better than Hillary Clinton? Is he a good role model because we agree with him more than we don't agree with him? Why did 50% of the respondents think he's a good role model in 2017? What do the numbers say today?

I'm not denying there are hypocritical partisans out there, evangelical Christians among them, who wrongly excuse and defend everything Pres. Trump does. But if you're going to smear people, do it with a small paintbrush, and make sure your main paint can full of smear isn't 96% fantasy.
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People forget that neither of the 2016 presidential candidates display the highest moral character nor do most vote for a candidate on that one issue. People found Clinton even less trustworthy than Trump according to a major poll though pollsters found them both to be liars. I suspect Evangelicals did not vote for Trump because of his character but they did see him as a way to avoid Hillary whose platform wasn't like theirs. That's what it comes down to in a nutshell. People vote for presidential candidates whose promises mostly align with their own hopes.
I'm weary of subjective emotional pleas void of facts, broad brushing, but you took on one, and good on you for having the fortitude. :thumbs:
 
Amelia said:
That is a good point which keeps being brushed under the rug with the "but the only other choice was Hillary" crowd.
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Exactly.

From your quote: "Trump is perceived to be strong and bold" that only to a total moron who has no idea what is strength and bold. Trump is a ***** and a sniveling coward. I can only imagine what it was like when as a student someone knocked him on his ass.
 
COTO said:
Why are you not making any distinction between evangelical Christians and Christians who voted for Pres. Trump?
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Is there a difference between any of those hypocrite scumbags?

What about evangelical Christians outside the US?
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Not relevant to the topic.

And are you speaking to evangelical Christians who voted for Pres. Trump in 2016 or evangelical Christians who support him today? If the latter, how much support is "support"? Do they have to support everything he does, or just certain things?
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How many have come out to criticize him?

I'm also seeing a lot of discussion on abortion. It seems pertinent to mention that abortion and a potential Supreme Court nomination weren't major reasons why self-described evangelical Christians voted for Pres. Trump.
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The why on Earth did those degenerates vote for him?
 
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