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Powerful Sand Hook Promise Video

marke said:
What to do to stop gun violence in schools?

Possible solutions, but some not very practical:

1. Take all guns away from all Americans, possibly even from law enforcement officers.
2. Take all guns away from all private citizens.
3. Take guns away from criminals only.
4. Arm teachers.
5. Sue gun manufacturers and put them out of business.
6. Tax the fire out of ammunition.
7. Make everyone with a gun report to local authorities every time they move the gun in any manner.
8. Create a national database of all known gun owners and all criminal offenders or potential criminal offenders to help remove guns from the criminals or potential criminals.
9. Lock kids in secure impenetrable rooms except for bathroom breaks or class changes.
10. Appoint a panel of leftists to determine who is crazy and who is not and let them decide who can have a gun and who cannot.
11. Repeal the second amendment.
12. Draw a line in the sand and tell criminals if they cross that line they are in big trouble.
13. Make deer hunting and sport shooting illegal.

There are maybe a gazillion other ideas but it may be hard to say what leftists really want when they say Congress is doing nothing about gun crimes.
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I think there are other things we can do and they are being seriously considered short of many of the more extreme items on that list.
 
Josie said:
I've always wondered why those who want to pass sweeping, massive gun control laws don't say one peep about the other objects that "cause" a lot of deaths --- unhealthy foods, knives, swimming pools, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Why don't they want sweeping massive control of those objects as well?
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If we only had regulations on any of those things! ;)
 
Josie said:
So ban "certain weapons" now and then take the rest of the steps later? Or stop there?
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I do not think we can eliminate the right to keep and bear arms nor should we do that. So I would be against "steps taken later" which do that.
 
Phys251 said:
If we only had regulations on any of those things! ;)
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We don't have strict control on any of those things. But, of course, you knew exactly what I was saying since I said exactly that.
 
haymarket said:
I do not think we can eliminate the right to keep and bear arms nor should we do that. So I would be against "steps taken later" which do that.
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How would that stop another Virginia Tech-like shooting then?
 
Josie said:
We don't have strict control on any of those things. But, of course, you knew exactly what I was saying since I said exactly that.
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Good to know that you're punting on raging against the federal government for sensible regulations of unhealthy foods, knives, swimming pools, alcohol, and cigarettes. Not all libertarians show that kind of sensibility. :thumbs:
 
Josie said:
How would that stop another Virginia Tech-like shooting then?
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I do not know for sure. That is my most honest answer.

I will add that it took us two centuries to get into this situation and will take a long time and lots of different things to get us out.

I am sure you will disagree with me when I say this... and lots of others here will as well .... but the reality is that we have a gun centered culture here in the USA and it runs deep. Along the side of that gun culture is a glamorization and glorification of guns that is deeply spread and is evidenced in books, films, TV, recordings, and all manner of our popular culture and cultural mythos.

We have to reverse that. We have to arrive at the day when guns will be rarely seen and never glamorized or glorified. We have to get to the point where guns lose their charm and the myth of the OldWest is gone with the wind.

We do NOT have to change the Constitution to do this.

You will still have your right and you can still have your gun. It simply will not be so glorious and shiny and is seen as the great equalizer.

This will take lots of time. This will take lots of energy. This will take many different approaches and laws and regulations. Some of it will bear fruit and some of it will not. Some may do more harm in the short term.

But it is a chance we must take if we are to get a American society that gets beyond our obsession with guns.
 
haymarket said:
I do not know for sure. That is my most honest answer.

I will add that it took us two centuries to get into this situation and will take a long time and lots of different things to get us out.

I am sure you will disagree with me when I say this... and lots of others here will as well .... but the reality is that we have a gun centered culture here in the USA and it runs deep. Along the side of that gun culture is a glamorization and glorification of guns that is deeply spread and is evidenced in books, films, TV, recordings, and all manner of our popular culture and cultural mythos.

We have to reverse that. We have to arrive at the day when guns will be rarely seen and never glamorized or glorified. We have to get to the point where guns lose their charm and the myth of the OldWest is gone with the wind.

We do NOT have to change the Constitution to do this.

You will still have your right and you can still have your gun. It simply will not be so glorious and shiny and is seen as the great equalizer.

This will take lots of time. This will take lots of energy. This will take many different approaches and laws and regulations. Some of it will bear fruit and some of it will not. Some may do more harm in the short term.

But it is a chance we must take if we are to get a American society that gets beyond our obsession with guns.
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The above seems like a well thought out and practical solution to the problem, much better than the knee jerk stupidity of banning certain guns in your earlier posts
 
Chillfolks said:
The above seems like a well thought out and practical solution to the problem, much better than the knee jerk stupidity of banning certain guns in your earlier posts
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Thank you for those words. I think my position is shared by most of the American people. And it does not hinder any person from hunting or protecting their home or property or person and family.

Make no mistake - I still favor banning certain military weapons from society and I view that as one of the things we must try.

Compare guns in the USA to a major restaurant. I view this as a very large restaurant menu that has lots and lots and lots of choices. If I advocate taking goose liver pate off the menu it is then dishonest to pretend that people are going to starve when that change is made as the menu still has lots and lots more than you can consume.

You will still have your right to keep and bear arms. You just will not have the AK47 and AR15 to do it with. But the menu is still there to fulfill your needs and still offers you lots of choice.
 
haymarket said:
I do not know for sure. That is my most honest answer.

I will add that it took us two centuries to get into this situation and will take a long time and lots of different things to get us out.

I am sure you will disagree with me when I say this... and lots of others here will as well .... but the reality is that we have a gun centered culture here in the USA and it runs deep. Along the side of that gun culture is a glamorization and glorification of guns that is deeply spread and is evidenced in books, films, TV, recordings, and all manner of our popular culture and cultural mythos.

We have to reverse that. We have to arrive at the day when guns will be rarely seen and never glamorized or glorified. We have to get to the point where guns lose their charm and the myth of the OldWest is gone with the wind.

We do NOT have to change the Constitution to do this.

You will still have your right and you can still have your gun. It simply will not be so glorious and shiny and is seen as the great equalizer.

This will take lots of time. This will take lots of energy. This will take many different approaches and laws and regulations. Some of it will bear fruit and some of it will not. Some may do more harm in the short term.

But it is a chance we must take if we are to get a American society that gets beyond our obsession with guns.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't disagree too much. I think we do glorify violence in this country and that's what some mentally ill people thrive on.

This is the second time a response from you has surprised me in the past couple of months. You've changed. :)
 
haymarket said:
Just look at the hostile reaction from some gun fanatics in this thread and it clearly answers your questions.
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i dont want to guess im asking you direct questions
I repeat

The video was very moving, it does pack a general emotional punch

what is a gunworshipper?

what do you think they wont like about it?

What do you think the video should inspire?


I like the video very much and I think it shines a light on how crazy and out of control a school shooting can be, but it didnt impact my stance on guns at all. why would it??
Maybe its because i have a normal stance on guns thought . . i dont know/ . . .
 
Josie said:
Actually, I don't disagree too much. I think we do glorify violence in this country and that's what some mentally ill people thrive on.

This is the second time a response from you has surprised me in the past couple of months. You've changed. :)
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Thank you.

It appears I change with the wind it seems... or never really change at all.
 
AGENT J said:
i dont want to guess im asking you direct questions
I repeat

The video was very moving, it does pack a general emotional punch

what is a gunworshipper?




.
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A person who loves guns and centers much of their life around them.

what do you think they wont like about it?
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They will see it as anti-gun and pro action that they do not favor.

What do you think the video should inspire?
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A demystifying of gun culture and realization that action needs to be taken before we produce generations mentally scarred by these drills.
 
haymarket said:
Thank you for those words. I think my position is shared by most of the American people. And it does not hinder any person from hunting or protecting their home or property or person and family.

Make no mistake - I still favor banning certain military weapons from society and I view that as one of the things we must try.

Compare guns in the USA to a major restaurant. I view this as a very large restaurant menu that has lots and lots and lots of choices. If I advocate taking goose liver pate off the menu it is then dishonest to pretend that people are going to starve when that change is made as the menu still has lots and lots more than you can consume.

You will still have your right to keep and bear arms. You just will not have the AK47 and AR15 to do it with. But the menu is still there to fulfill your needs and still offers you lots of choice.
Click to expand...

Sticking with the restaurant theme. If you took goose liver off the menu because you don't like it, people will go other places to get it. At the restaurant the government at least has some say in how it's prepared, however the guy on the corner selling them out of his car isn't following the same regulations. Now if there is a change in peoples eating habits and goose liver6is no longer a item people consume taking off the menu isn't going to sens folks elsewhere.

Same with AR's having them suddenly banned while there is still a high demand is simply going to send people to the black market looking for them. Until there is a societal shift concerning the demand all a ban does is increase the profits of gangs or unscrupulous machinists who will fill the demand.

Personally I think a better use of our limited resources is focusing on what has changed in society in the last generation resulting in people shooting up schools, stores, concerts in search of recognition in creating high body counts. Thirty plus years ago more people owned guns and we didn't have these issues. The guns being used today were available then and weren't being used so I fail to see how they are the issue. Something in society has changed that has created this issue.
 
Chillfolks said:
Sticking with the restaurant theme. If you took goose liver off the menu because you don't like it, people will go other places to get it. At the restaurant the government at least has some say in how it's prepared, however the guy on the corner selling them out of his car isn't following the same regulations. Now if there is a change in peoples eating habits and goose liver6is no longer a item people consume taking off the menu isn't going to sens folks elsewhere.

Same with AR's having them suddenly banned while there is still a high demand is simply going to send people to the black market looking for them. Until there is a societal shift concerning the demand all a ban does is increase the profits of gangs or unscrupulous machinists who will fill the demand.

Personally I think a better use of our limited resources is focusing on what has changed in society in the last generation resulting in people shooting up schools, stores, concerts in search of recognition in creating high body counts. Thirty plus years ago more people owned guns and we didn't have these issues. The guns being used today were available then and weren't being used so I fail to see how they are the issue. Something in society has changed that has created this issue.
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Then we will have to closely monitor the black market and enforce the law and perhaps greatly increase the cost of violating it to take away the possible incentive to violate it.

How many of the guns in question - military style assault weapons - were used thirty plus years ago?
 
haymarket said:
1.) A person who loves guns and centers much of their life around them.
2.) They will see it as anti-gun and pro action that they do not favor.
3.)A demystifying of gun culture and realization that action needs to be taken before we produce generations mentally scarred by these drills.
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Thank you
1.) geez thats pretty vague that could be like 1/3 to 2/5s of the country
2.) I didnt see anything anti-gun in it "the video" but i do admit i didnt read anything on the page i just watched the video
3A.) how do you define "gun culture"
3B.) what action?
 
AGENT J said:
Thank you
1.) geez thats pretty vague that could be like 1/3 to 2/5s of the country
2.) I didnt see anything anti-gun in it "the video" but i do admit i didnt read anything on the page i just watched the video
3A.) how do you define "gun culture"
3B.) what action?
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No - it is not anywhere close to 30 to 40% of the country. The membership of the NRA is at most five million and that is just a few percent of adults in this country. Even if we take in everybody over the age of 14, it is a tiny percentage.... not even five percent.

I think others may see the video as anti-gun. Some of the reaction here clearly shows that.

I would define gun culture as people to whom the gun has an important part in their life and as one of the top one or two priorities in their life that dictate lots of other decisions. They often look at guns as a pseudo sort of religion with guns as some sort of all purpose good and are ritualistic about many aspects about it.

I do not know what you are asking when you say "what action?".
 
haymarket said:
Then we will have to closely monitor the black market and enforce the law and perhaps greatly increase the cost of violating it to take away the possible incentive to violate it.
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I'm all for doing that now, and think we would have much better results than trying to ban any types of weapons. Although it wouldn't make as good of a talking point.
How many of the guns in question - military style assault weapons - were used thirty plus years ago?
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The only one jumping to mind was the famous bank robbery. But it's kind of my point. The same guns have been available for a long time. It's a people society issue that has changed not the gun. We nees to focus on that instead of banning items.
 
haymarket said:
1.) No - it is not anywhere close to 30 to 40% of the country. The membership of the NRA is at most five million and that is just a few percent of adults in this country. Even if we take in everybody over the age of 14, it is a tiny percentage.... not even five percent.

2.) I think others may see the video as anti-gun. Some of the reaction here clearly shows that.

3.) I would define gun culture as people to whom the gun has an important part in their life and as one of the top one or two priorities in their life that dictate lots of other decisions. They often look at guns as a pseudo sort of religion with guns as some sort of all purpose good and are ritualistic about many aspects about it.
4.) I do not know what you are asking when you say "what action?".
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1.) according to who and what facts? its a made-up term by you. You said loves gun and centers their life around them . . . .now you are talking about NRA membership? What does that have to do with it? are you changing your made up the definition?

So if a person owns guns and hunts yearly they are not a gun worshipper because they dont belong to the NRA?

You're gonna have to define your made-up term much better then. millions of people own guns, what like 42% of men and 15% of women or something i think i saw somebody posted here at DP one time.

2.) which reactions to the video show that?

3.) still pretty vague, id say that could apply to ever yearly hunter, why is their lifestyle bad? What needs "demystifyied" about hunters?

4.) you said, "realization that action needs to be taken before we produce generations mentally scarred by these drills."
im asking what action?
 
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