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Thread: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

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    Re: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by lwf View Post
    It didn't happen for Hillary. Record numbers of democrats defected and voted 3rd party because she was a weak candidate, like you are proposing if Biden is selected. That's why she lost. It did happen for Trump, however. Republicans joined forces and locked arms around their candidate regardless of how distasteful they found him. And it worked.

    I don't fault you for voting your conscience. But American democracy is winner take all. A 3rd party vote in 2020 is a vote for four more years of Trump.
    Record numbers of democrats defected and voted 3rd party because she was a weak candidate,
    And.... welcome Trump buddy!
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    Re: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

    I can't vote for Biden willingly, but I will if he is the pick.

    Thing is, if you want authenticity, you go with Bernie. Warren, while I'd prefer her over Biden, is a reptile who is engaging corporate interests behind the scenes, and is uncomfortable simply being honest. Bernie is not that. Bernie tells the truth. Yes, you will pay less over all, more in taxes, but less overall for MFA. He doesn't shy away from difficult conversations.

    This is what I like about Bernie. He cuts through the bull****.

    Sanders is authentic. He believes in what he is fighting for. Biden? Warren? If you court DC insiders behind the scenes, you are not my type of leader.

    Sanders' authenticity, honesty, earnestness. That's how you WIN.
    #BDS

    No forgiveness here remains.

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    Re: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Thing is, if you want authenticity, you go with Bernie. Warren, while I'd prefer her over Biden, is a reptile who is engaging corporate interests behind the scenes, and is uncomfortable simply being honest. Bernie is not that. Bernie tells the truth. Yes, you will pay less over all, more in taxes, but less overall for MFA. He doesn't shy away from difficult conversations.

    This is what I like about Bernie. He cuts through the bull****.
    Promising everyone they're going to pay less is not a difficult conversation. Talking about how that could be achieved is the difficult conversation. Based on what we've seen so far, there's no evidence Bernie is willing to have the difficult conversations on where his promised savings come from; quite the contrary, actually (e.g., Bernie Sanders decries planned closing of Philadelphia hospital ).

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    Re: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    Promising everyone they're going to pay less is not a difficult conversation. Talking about how that could be achieved is the difficult conversation. Based on what we've seen so far, there's no evidence Bernie is willing to have the difficult conversations on where his promised savings come from; quite the contrary, actually (e.g., Bernie Sanders decries planned closing of Philadelphia hospital ).
    No, having the guts to say "You will pay more in taxes but no premiums, co-payments, deductibles, etc" is the honest way to have this conversation.

    Sanders TALKS about HOW this will be achieved. His plans lay it out in detail; increased taxes, removal of tax breaks for the rich and corporations, etc.

    Only an ideologue thinks Sanders' plan is untenable. What's untenable is Joe Biden's plan, which is the ACA, which we all know is a total joke and a right wing bill.
    #BDS

    No forgiveness here remains.

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    Re: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

    Would any self-respecting 'liberal/progressive' vote for a President Joe Manchin if it came down to him and Trump? He's slightly more tolerable than Trump. Go ahead and tell me you would vote for Manchin and not savage the party for putting up such a horrible alternative.
    Last edited by Dans La Lune; 09-16-19 at 09:55 AM.
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    Re: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Dans La Lune View Post
    I can and will complain about both. Just as I'd assume you'd complain if Biden turned out to be a terrible president. The burden isn't on me to support Biden, the burden is on me to stop Biden because he's the weakest candidate to go up against Trump. The calculation for Biden is everyone coalescing around Biden once he wins the nomination. It didn't work for Hillary, who I voted for, and it won't work for Biden if its a tight race.

    If you want my vote, try earning it. I'm not a party loyalist, I care about policy. Biden doesn't support the policies I support. So again, lay your dead calf at someone else's feet if Biden loses.
    I think the question is (or would be) which person supports more of the policies you prefer - Biden or Trump? Which President will sign pretty much anything the Democratic Congress sends to his desk? Biden or Trump? Which candidate will appoint judges that are more likely to make decisions you support? Which person is more likely to appoint regulators who want to regulate, and people in, say, EPA who are worried about clean air and water versus regulated industries' bottom lines?

    If you're a liberal, none of those questions are difficult IMO. Biden (or anyone else in the Democratic field) is more likely to do ALL those things.

    Frankly, I just don't really care which person wins the nomination. It will matter on the margins, but if you're worried about progressive legislation, Congress is where the action will be, not in the WH. If Democrats don't win big majorities in the House and Senate, nothing substantial will get done. And if they do win substantial majorities, anyone in the WH signs what they send him or her.

    Obviously it's your vote, but I'd just ask how you think progressive policies have a better chance of being enacted under Trump, than Biden with a Senate of 60 Democrats, and a majority in the House?

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    Re: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Dans La Lune View Post
    Would any self-respecting 'liberal/progressive' vote for a President Joe Manchin if it came down to him and Trump? He's slightly more tolerable than Trump. Go ahead and tell me you would vote for Manchin and not savage the party for putting up such a horrible alternative.
    Of course, and I wouldn't have to think about it for more than about a half second. The old saying, "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind...

    Do you think Manchin would veto a healthcare bill that got 60 Democratic votes in the Senate? How about a democratic budget? Some kind of education reform that lowers debt burdens for those attending college, community college or trade school? Would Trump veto those things? Which one is more likely to sign whatever the presumably Democratic Congress puts on his desk?
    Last edited by JasperL; 09-16-19 at 10:09 AM.

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    Re: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Dans La Lune View Post
    Yes, that argument swayed me last time and Trump still got two SCOTUS picks. I suspect Trump will actually get three SCOTUS appointments before this is done (very unlikely RBG will survive). And the lower courts have already been transformed for generations. Sorry, our salvation is not in the courts.

    I'm done with that argument.
    They haven't been transformed for generations because lots of judges are already old, and even those newly appointed won't live for "generations" on the court. So if you're worried about the courts, it's illogical to not want a Democrat appointing those many lower court and SC picks ASAP and as long as possible.

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    Re: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Dans La Lune View Post
    Yes it does.

    Hillary was a 'damaged candidate' because Republicans took faux scandal mole hills and blew them up. You don't think this same treatment is waiting for Biden? Boy are you in for a surprise.
    What matters is that tRump is sent back to where he came from. <--Period

    The difference is "they" had over 8 years to defame, slander and lie about Clinton and the got very good at it. They don't have that time for whomever is nominated by the DNC.
    Watching tRumps Presidency has been like watching a bunch of blindfolded dizzy children play pin the tail on the donkey.
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    Re: Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Of course, and I wouldn't have to think about it for more than about a half second. The old saying, "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind...
    I agree that you didn't appear to put half a second of thought into the political calculation. I think any progressive who would settle for Trump-lite deserves to lose, and lose badly. Joe Manchin supports like 80-90% of Trump's policies. Talk about settling for less.

    Oh well, to each his own.
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