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Ban e-Cigarettes but NOT regular cigarettes??

longview said:
Everything! We have given our government the right to make decisions on what things to make illegal,
and that power covers everything, not specifically restricted from legislation by the Bill of Rights.
They could make cigarettes illegal with a new law, they will not, but could!
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Can you cite the evidence for giving the gov't the "right" to do anything- especially make commerce illegal? The gov't was *granted* certain authorities- everything not addressed in the constitution was left to the states and the people- the authority to regulate is not a grant of making illegal what isn't criminal- when an action is made illegal it makes criminal(s)- where was that authority granted? SMH- another case of rhe gov't mandated lack of education at work- no personal offense intended, sir- it's just obvious in many posts on political message boards.
 
Irredentist said:
The problem is that flavored vapes are marketed to children, popular among children, and they've been a runaway success at getting kids addicted to nicotine. Why should we allow corporations to sucker kids in with candy flavored poison?
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LOL- I saw a news snippet this morning- Trump said; we can't allow people to get sick- maybe he should ban getting sick- it'd be much more effective.
As for "why should we allow corporations to sucker kids with candy flavored poison?"- what?! Who died and left "we" in charge of what choices others kids make?
SMH-
 
Irredentist said:
The very existence of flavored vape juice is an attraction to children. Kids like sweet things, and vape companies know this. That's why nearly every high school in America is flooded with Juuls. The only solution is to cut off the supply.
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What about adults who like candy? Do you have the right, or were you granted an authority we're not aware of?
 
Gdjjr said:
LOL- I saw a news snippet this morning- Trump said; we can't allow people to get sick- maybe he should ban getting sick- it'd be much more effective.
As for "why should we allow corporations to sucker kids with candy flavored poison?"- what?! Who died and left "we" in charge of what choices others kids make?
SMH-
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As voting members of society we are vested with the responsibility to address our own societal issues. Kids getting addicted to drugs is a societal issue, and ultimately it affects us all. Therefore it must be addressed not only on an individual level but on a societal level as well.
 
Gdjjr said:
What about adults who like candy? Do you have the right, or were you granted an authority we're not aware of?
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Too bad I guess? You're not going to die from a lack of sweet vape juice. Quite the opposite, you'll be healthier without it.
 
Irredentist said:
The very existence of flavored vape juice is an attraction to children. Kids like sweet things, and vape companies know this. That's why nearly every high school in America is flooded with Juuls. The only solution is to cut off the supply.
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Dodged and deflected didn't you. :roll:

You said "marketed to children".

Please provide proof of e-cigarettes being marketed to children.
 
Dragonfly said:
Dodged and deflected didn't you. :roll:

You said "marketed to children".

Please provide proof of e-cigarettes being marketed to children.
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They ARE marketed to children. What do you want, an advertisement telling kids to vape? None exists as I'm sure you know. I didn't claim that there was. Advertising is not the same thing as marketing. Flavored vapes are MARKETED to children because they APPEAL to children by their very nature. They're not ADVERTISED to children because that would be illegal, but they wind up in children's hands regardless. Capiche?
 
Irredentist said:
They ARE marketed to children. What do you want, an advertisement telling kids to vape? None exists as I'm sure you know. I didn't claim that there was. Advertising is not the same thing as marketing. Flavored vapes are MARKETED to children because they APPEAL to children by their very nature. They're not ADVERTISED to children because that would be illegal, but they wind up in children's hands regardless. Capiche?
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You're way off the mark.

Marketing is actually a thing.

Just because something has a flavor doesn't mean it's marketed to kids. Lemon flavored vodka is NOT marketed to kids.

The simple existence of something isn't marketing.

Newsflash, adults like flavors they experienced as kids.

You're wrong. Period.
 
longview said:
I think the distinction is that smoking is not itemized out in the Bill of Rights like guns.
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Sure, arms get extra protection, because back in 1700s nobody could ever imagine govt telling someone they couldnt smoke. The founders seriously underestimated the complacency of the average human. While they had recent experience with govt banning arms.
 
Obscurity said:
Agreed, and cannabis is the sole reason I will never vote republican; as someone who uses it as medicine, I cannot and will not tolerate the desperate control the GOP has siezed upon to ensure evangelicals and busy-bodies keep voting for them.

The mere fact it helps IBS and glaucoma should mean it is removed from schedule one immediately; however, it appears, the republicant administration is insisting we continue this prohibition by fiat. It's absurd.
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I thought when Sessions left that Trump would allow the legalization of cannabis. I was wrong apparently.

I can't believe I ever supported the Republicans. They want to stick their nasty noses into everyone's bedrooms and mouths and uteruses.
 
longview said:
Everything! We have given our government the right to make decisions on what things to make illegal,
and that power covers everything, not specifically restricted from legislation by the Bill of Rights.
They could make cigarettes illegal with a new law, they will not, but could!
Click to expand...

Yes, so when the government decides that alcohol is legal, you'll cheer them on and say "well it's their right"?
 
tres borrachos said:
I thought when Sessions left that Trump would allow the legalization of cannabis. I was wrong apparently.

I can't believe I ever supported the Republicans. They want to stick their nasty noses into everyone's bedrooms and mouths and uteruses.
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Yes, they do. And that's the weird thing. They used to be the party of liberty, until Reagan. Reagan sold his soul to the evangelicals, and in so doing condemned the rest of the GOP apparatus to becoming the mouthpiece for theocracy-lite governance.
 
Irredentist said:
As voting members of society we are vested with the responsibility to address our own societal issues. Kids getting addicted to drugs is a societal issue, and ultimately it affects us all. Therefore it must be addressed not only on an individual level but on a societal level as well.
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Societal sure, not governmental. The purpose of govt is to protect our rights to live and be free, not to protect us from ourselves.

So, start a organization to convince kids not to vape, or convince stores not to sell vapes. Its not govts job or power to do it for you.
 
Irredentist said:
As voting members of society we are vested with the responsibility to address our own societal issues. Kids getting addicted to drugs is a societal issue, and ultimately it affects us all. Therefore it must be addressed not only on an individual level but on a societal level as well.
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Look how well the war on drugs as worked.

I can parent my children without society assisting.
 
Gdjjr said:
Can you cite the evidence for giving the gov't the "right" to do anything- especially make commerce illegal? The gov't was *granted* certain authorities- everything not addressed in the constitution was left to the states and the people- the authority to regulate is not a grant of making illegal what isn't criminal- when an action is made illegal it makes criminal(s)- where was that authority granted? SMH- another case of rhe gov't mandated lack of education at work- no personal offense intended, sir- it's just obvious in many posts on political message boards.
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I agree that no actual authority was issued, but the authority has been assumed.
Our governments at all levels, can and do pass laws related to what we can and cannot do.
The only real limitation, or those things taken off the table by the Bill of Rights.
Note:no personal offense taken, we learn through interaction and discussion.
 
tres borrachos said:
Yes, so when the government decides that alcohol is legal, you'll cheer them on and say "well it's their right"?
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I am not a fan of Government intrusion into much of anything, exceptions being those activities that harm others,
but I am pointing out that the government can make illegal just about anything they want to.
 
Obscurity said:
Agreed, and cannabis is the sole reason I will never vote republican; as someone who uses it as medicine, I cannot and will not tolerate the desperate control the GOP has siezed upon to ensure evangelicals and busy-bodies keep voting for them.

The mere fact it helps IBS and glaucoma should mean it is removed from schedule one immediately; however, it appears, the republicant administration is insisting we continue this prohibition by fiat. It's absurd.
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Also MS, Parkinson's, epilepsy and some other conditions I can't recall. For some vague reason the practical efficacy of cannabis is overshadowed by moral prerogatives. It's changing though, and Britain recently prescribed the first medical cannabis-it was a private prescription though and I can't see the NHS prescribing it any time soon-mostly because it hasn't gone through the rigorous testing that other medications have to before being granted licences.
Don't know if you saw this, but it's pretty amazing...

YouTube
 
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longview said:
I am not a fan of Government intrusion into much of anything, exceptions being those activities that harm others,
but I am pointing out that the government can make illegal just about anything they want to.
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Everything has the potential to "hurt others". When I get behind the wheel of my car, I can hurt someone else. Should government make driving illegal?
 
Dragonfly said:
Millions and millions have died, and millions more will die thanks specifically to tobacco cigarettes, but dammit we musty ban something "new" that has killed a small handful of folks and we must do it now.

Jesus H. Christ, where's the same lightening swift reaction to gun violence???

Oh that's right, 'merika!!!!! F-yeah.

We are a twisted nation aren't we?
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Please, one rant at a time.

tres borrachos said:
IMO they shouldn't ban cigarettes either. Adults should be free to make their own decisions.

Banning the flavored vapes was apparently Melania's idea. She's as stupid as her husband is.
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Banning the flavored vapes is an overreaction, IMO. Adults shouldn’t be penalized for vaping companies marketing to minors.

snakestretcher said:
I agree to an extent, but have you any idea how much the treatment of smoking related disease costs America? Does $300 billion a year sound about right?

Economic Trends in Tobacco | Smoking & Tobacco Use | CDC

How Much Can the USA Reduce Health Care Costs by Reducing Smoking?

Sadly prohibition won't work, although a ban on tobacco advertising might help. It is already banned in the UK-since 1965 in fact. No more ads featuring happy couples sharing precious moments with their "cool as a mountain stream" cigarette. I wonder if they died yet?

This is the end of tobacco advertising - Cancer Research UK - Science blog
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Excellent points. We did eliminate television ads for cigarettes many years ago, and I think vaping products should be added to that ban. As for your main point, the cost of smoking related illnesses, insurance companies here do charge more for smokers, although probably not enough.
 
tres borrachos said:
Everything has the potential to "hurt others". When I get behind the wheel of my car, I can hurt someone else. Should government make driving illegal?
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Not potential, but actual harm of others, but the real point is that the Government can ban whatever the law allows them to ban.
 
longview said:
Not potential, but actual harm of others, but the real point is that the Government can ban whatever the law allows them to ban.
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If I fall asleep behind the wheel drunk and plow into a busy sidewalk of people, I will hurt them. Will the government ban cars?
 
jonny5 said:
Societal sure, not governmental. The purpose of govt is to protect our rights to live and be free, not to protect us from ourselves.

So, start a organization to convince kids not to vape, or convince stores not to sell vapes. Its not govts job or power to do it for you.
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Of course it's governments job to protect us from ourselves. Why do you think we have laws against assault or theft, or underage drinking? This is no different.
 
Dragonfly said:
Millions and millions have died, and millions more will die thanks specifically to tobacco cigarettes, but dammit we musty ban something "new" that has killed a small handful of folks and we must do it now.

Jesus H. Christ, where's the same lightening swift reaction to gun violence???

Oh that's right, 'merika!!!!! F-yeah.

We are a twisted nation aren't we?
Click to expand...

Have you heard the old saying about closing the barn door after the horse got out? This is what banning e-cigarettes after thousands of our youths have become addicted to nicotine. Having once smoked, stopped in 1973, I know how hard it is to stop. So now we have kids who started on e-cigarettes will probably switch to regular cigarettes to get their fix of nicotine. It seems in this country we always follow the same path. We allow a potentially dangerous product that makes someone a lot of money until the possible danger becomes real and then we try to fix the problem. Look at the present deaths due to drug overdoses. What I do find interesting is that we have banned kinds of e-cigarettes after 8 deaths and done nothing about military style weapons that have killed more than a million, interesting.
 
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