Trump
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Lets talk about the third debate on Thursday
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:surrenderopcorn2::surrender
I doesn't matter what infighting there is over here... you waving the white flag is what you will be doing in November of next year. So good to see you getting your practice in now.
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People who are highly dishonest often don't deserve a response, and you have crossed the line to where I do not plan to read any post from you again.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't conflate Phys's Bernie Derangement Syndrome dishonesty with my preferring Bernie to Warren. I could praise Warren all day and have, and she's long been my #2 pick for president, and is still top three vying with Andrew Yang for the second spot. I happen to agree with you that Warren and Sanders are the two leading progressive candidates who share a lot to like.
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Then don't let him bait you. A very meager slight was put out there and both of you divided. It's really stupid. Eyes on the target. Could've just put it to him on policy. "What policy is different from Bernie than Warren that you don't like?"
If it's not about policy, we will end up with a lackluster do nothing centrist who will be a dirty damp washcloth on voter enthusiasm of the left which is the only way we keep losing. The GOP doesn't win. We just find ways to lose. And taking the eyes off policy is how that happens every single time just to have us opt for the stupid misconception that a republican lite will somehow magically lure republicans away from a republican.
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I'll give you a hint: The reason I like Warren and dislike Sanders is because there are many more important aspects to a politician than just the four words you wrote in all-caps.
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Sorry, but his list of false smears against Bernie isn't addressed by 'what policy is different?' That would be a discussion with a rational and more honest person, not someone who is dishonest and has Bernie Derangement Syndrome. Our conflict was his smearing Bernie, not Warren's positives.
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There is a reason why Biden leads the polls, registered Democratic voters don't want socialism.
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We already have socialism; this comment is a non-starter.
Registered democrats like Biden because he reminds them of Obama, and because they think he is electable.
Tell me; what do you think would happen if Biden and Trump debated?
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Here's the thing. Warren can't beat Trump in a debate. Trump loomed over HRC like a savage barbarian; he dismissed her, mocked her, etc. Do you seriously think Warren will hold out against Trump?
We need a street fighter. Bernie is that fighter. Don't mistake me; I am a Sanders guy through and through; my second is Warren, my third is Tulsi. But at the end of the day, Sanders has the raw, "We should not even be having this discussion" disdain for the media and the right wing; his no more middle ground speech comes to mind.
Warren will be mocked as pocohantas; a dear friend of mine is convinced Warren is a total POS because of the indian heritage story, which will be ceaselessly on blast by every RW echo chamber across the planet. Warren should do the right thing and drop out of the race, endorse bernie, and be his VP.
Trump will lose to Sanders. I doubt he loses to Warren.
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You have no way to prove that.
You think that Sanders can out-Trump Trump? :lol: Hey at least you admitted that the two have more in common than you'd like to think. Baby steps?
So we should decide our candidate based on Trump's bullying. Got it. :lamo
Again with the unsubstantiated claims. Speaking of which, I notice that you're not even trying to defend the deplorable behavior of the BernieBros any more. Have you finally come to recognize that that is a fight that you cannot win? Neither is his I <3 Socialists commentary, either. You think that man stands a chance of flipping Florida, a state we really need to win? :lol:
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The cable tv shouters are really building that up.
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So what do we need Bernie, Warren, and the like for if we already have socialism? If Biden and Trump debated it would be put on LAFF TV. Doesn't change the fact that Biden is ahead in the polls because Democratic voters themselves don't want socialism.
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It's an opinion, and I think it bears out one fact in this country no one wants to face; Americans are more anti-woman than they are racist.
Out Trump, Trump? No. I think Sanders has appeal with a very important demographic that will decide the election; white males without a college degree.
It's not about his bullying, it's about how many voters that may switch will be turned off by the appearance someone lied about ethnicity to take advantage. Remember, republicans are immune to such criticism, Democrats are not.
Yes, I think he can win Florida. But Florida is not the important state. PA, Ohio, WI, MI, IL, MN are important states. Florida is an added bonus. Remember, those whites without a college degree? They didn't vote for HRC because HRC was anathema to their ideology. Sanders, with his pro-union, pro-worker, pro-blue collar message, past and history is what won those states and will do so again.
The issue right now with the democratic party is one many have brought up before; the democrats have not been a pro-worker party since the 70's. The same goes for the republicans. So while the democrats paid lip service to trickle down and fighting it, they have time and time again refused to adequately fight for workers.
As for the Bernie Bros, look, holding me accountable for the poor actions of some people is as absurd as me saying you elected Trump by voting for HRC. This whole bernie bro hillbot nonsense has got to come to an end. A fight I cannot win? No, it's a fight I am no longer adding fuel to, because it is an absurd and pathetic harkening to excuses about why HRC lost.
We need to unify - behind whoever the candidate is - because the entire country is at stake. Trump and his cronies are acting in such a dangerous, authoritarian manner that a second term will be catastrophic - and I mean that.
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First you need to accept this country has socialism; it's just socialism for those that don't need it, and rugged captialistic individualism for those that do.
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Total waste of time. I am so tired of the MSM treating the debates like the Royal Rumble.
No, I don't care to see Bernie/Warren/Harris/Biden trash each other. I want policy discussion and valid conversation about what the country faces.
We can save the destruction of the OpFor for DJT and Pence.
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Don't even think about trying to have a civil discussion about race, gender, and politics, when you can't even put forth a decent argument in defense of one white dude. :mrgreen:
Again with the erasure of the nonwhite voters. Let me help you with some math: No Democratic candidate has won a majority of the white vote since LBJ in 1964. Over half a century ago. Pandering to the WWC at the expense of nonwhite voters is a trap that Democrats must avoid if they are to take back the White House.
You think Sanders hasn't lied? :lol: If you think that the Right does not have a very effective playbook against Sanders if he somehow earns the nomination, then you need to stop what you're doing and read this. Now you and I both know that you won't take the time to digest it, because you "know" that you're right and the writer is part of the "centrist" "corporatist" "milquetoast" "sellout" "establishment," but could you for once try to show some a higher level of introspection than that of an average Trump supporter? It is not a high bar to clear.
AGAIN with an uneducated comment. :lol:
Obviously you forgot about the 2000 election where Florida singlehandedly decided the entire race. Obviously you don't do math very well, because if you did, you would know what the score on the electoral college was. With the faithless electoral votes restored, Hillary earned 232 EVs in 2016, 38 short of a win. If we flip Florida, then its 29 votes bring us just nine away. Then any of AZ, WI, MI, or PA would be enough, if all other states remain as-is.
See above.
I am so sorry that you cannot handle the slightest bit of criticism against your Personal Lord and Savior. I am so sorry that you militantly refuse to even consider saying words such as, "OK, I can see where people would have a problem with Sanders doing this and saying that." Oh no. To you, Saint Bernard is precisely that. You Sanders supporters have made him into a literal deity, just like Trump supporters have done on their side. Both groups, when their deity is even slightly critiqued, throw a temper tantrum that makes a crying three-year-old look like a docile butterfly.
Oh NOW you're calling for unity? After throwing Elizabeth Warren under the bus? After making it clear that you will gladly throw any other candidate that doesn't pass your progressive purity test under the bus? No. What you want is not unity, but submission. I got news for you: If you want those of us who do not support Sanders--and there are a LOT more of us than you know--to compromise, then y'all need to lead by example. Y'all need to make the first move. Y'all need to be the ones to compromise first, something that y'all have militantly refused to do.
Then, and only then, can unity start to happen.
Oh and, BTW, the calendar is not going to wait for y'all to get your **** together. Clock's ticking down to the primaries!
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I don't know who you presume to think you are, but this comment is absolutely ridiculous.
Who said anything about erasing non-white voters? And nowhere did I say "pander" to "WWC voters." I said they are an important demographic, and they are. They overwhelmingly supported Sanders over Clinton - but you already knew that, didn't you?
Lmao. Your article is garbage. This quote alone proves it is garbage:
Yes. Sanders has already answered this charge; he was against the bill but voted for it - because of the violence against women provision.
Let's also stop the assumptions, shall we? I in no way believe Sanders is a demigod, nor do I think he is infallible. We're all fallible. So IDK what you're barking up here; frankly, I couldn't care less about What Sanders Wrote 40 years ago, when I wasn't alive. Do you seriously think anyone does? A fictitious rape story?
What a load of **** that is.
Also, spare me your condescending, agitprop, accusatory, patronizing tone. I have even less tolerance for holier-than-thou leftists than I do for right wing ideologues; we all know they don't think, but from you I'd expect some more civility.
It's not uneducated. Florida can't even count votes correctly, so what difference does it make?
There are ways to win the WH without Florida - there are 49 other states, and Sanders is the most popular dem in the rust belt.
Where in the bloody **** have I said there are no valid criticisms of Sanders? Explain it to me.
To you, and those who are upset about the 2016 election, I owe you nothing. You are sitting here exposing yourself as a judgmental, patronizing person with whom plenty of us would rathert not converse. I have valid criticisms of Sanders. He is lukewarm on ending the drug war. I dislike his swap in immigration, for example. I do not support his position on allowing jailed felons to vote.
Before you open your trap and throw accusations at me, you best not lump me in with irrational smears against a generalized group.
Sorry, I am not leading anything by example. I have been blamed - personally - by people like you for the loss in 2016, despite the fact Stein voters could also face the blame; or Johnson voters. But no. You want to blame -everyone- but yourselves for the democratic electorate choosing a fatally flawed candidate. You have -zero- introspection, and you and I have had this conversation before.
Sanders stumped for HRC continuously after he lost. GET OVER IT. YOUR WORDS ARE HOLLOW.
Then 2020 goes to Trump, because folks like you insist on your holier-than-thou high horse approach.
Your condescending tone, patronizing commentary, and your absurd obsession with blameshifting is duly noted. You are a picture perfect example of what these Trumpists -love- about triggered democrats.
Stop your bull**** and vote blue no matter who. Trump is the enemy here, not "berniebros" or "hillbots."
Jesus christ you haven't learned a single thing from 2016.
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Why do we need to elect Bernie, Warren, et al if we are already socialist?
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Because our socialist programs are backwards. We give handouts to huge corporations to build businesses in localities; then they hire workers and pay them dismally. The workers are then forced to apply for government benefits.
Because our tax system rewards industries for being "non-profit" which is nonsense, for example, hospital networks - non-profit, but make so much money they -have- to spend it buying up all the other providers in an area to justify their tax exempt status, eliminating competition and stifling growth.
Because those socialist policies are in place for the rich, and not the poor or middle classes, that's why. Because I tire of seeing wealth not trickle down. I want it reversed. We have tried this experiment and it has failed.
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I'm confused. We are either socialist or we aren't. Are you saying our socialism is backwards, that we need to get rid of social security, medicare, and social assistance programs?
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The DNC sure has it against Gabbard, not having her on the stage tonight is a joke as shown by
Tuesdays poll from RCP.
Biden 24, Sanders 13, Warren 21, Buttigieg 11, Harris 8, Gabbard 6, Yang 3, Booker 4, Klobuchar 1, Steyer 1, O'Rourke 1, Delaney 3, Castro 0
It puts Gabbard 5th in the 1st primary NH, ahead of 5 of the people on the stage tonight who have no chance at all.
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Bernie was the father of the movement. Now all candidates are following Bernies lead, they are 'Johnny come latelies' I'm by no means
a far leftwinger, but if I was Bernie would get my vote not the copycats.
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It says a lot about his leadership that his positions have gained so much in the party (and the country), rather than his being a 1% support 'nut on the left' - how he went from 4% to nearly half the party during the 2016 primaries as voters got to know him. Hillary only went down, Bernie only went up as people got to know him.
I wouldn't mind if someone 'better' came along - but Bernie is a historically good politician the country needs badly IMO. It's not the he was 'first', but that he is the better politician. He understands these issues better - it's why he co-founded the progressive caucus. But much of the country doesn't get much informed or learn why his policies are needed.
Your description of him as 'far left' is part of the problem - the media's description as well, and many voters assume it's right, and it's a problem mostly because many voters are just psychologically unable to consider that they might support something called 'far left'.
It's like, 'it's a hot day, you're thirsty, would you like a cool drink? You should know, it's a far left drink. Oh, you don't want it then, you'll take a blanket instead?' His policies have broad support - it's this 'far left', or the word 'socialist' that's wrongly used, that limit support. It's a lot of irrationality. It's like Bernie has to get people to listen to a speech to inform them, the media won't.
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No. Social security is an EARNED benefit, it isn't socialism.
For the most part our socialism is backward, in the manner in which I described it.