Lets talk about the third debate on Thursday

Obscurity said:

I don't know who you presume to think you are, but this comment is absolutely ridiculous.

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There it is, the immediate and predictable defensiveness. Congratulations, you just proved my point for me. :thumbs:

Who said anything about erasing non-white voters? And nowhere did I say "pander" to "WWC voters." I said they are an important demographic, and they are. They overwhelmingly supported Sanders over Clinton - but you already knew that, didn't you?

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I find it amusing that you actually think that I don't know what a white progressive dog whistle sounds like. If you think it is rightists that have a monopoly on dog whistles, then your ignorance on this issue is even deeper than I thought.

Your dodge of my irrefutable mathematical argument is also noted. :shrug: You keep dodging my points because deep down, you know I'm right and you have no way to refute what

Lmao. Your article is garbage. This quote alone proves it is garbage:

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Pure Dunning-Kruger by you. You are overconfident in the inductive reasoning skills that you do not possess. I will take the word of a reputable journalist, who actually does his homework, over your word any day of the week.

Yes. Sanders has already answered this charge; he was against the bill but voted for it - because of the violence against women provision.

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Oh yes, let's talk about Mr. Sanders and the crime bill, shall we? The one that Hillary was vilified for even though it was her husband and not her that signed it? Thank you for reminding me of yet another double-standard by white progressives! :thumbs:

Let's also stop the assumptions, shall we? I in no way believe Sanders is a demigod, nor do I think he is infallible. We're all fallible. So IDK what you're barking up here; frankly, I couldn't care less about What Sanders Wrote 40 years ago, when I wasn't alive. Do you seriously think anyone does? A fictitious rape story?

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:lamo

Many, if not most, Sanders supporters show just as much fragility towards criticism of their Messiah as Trump supporters do. Trying to make me unsee what I have seen with my own eyes is pure gaslighting by you, and that game will not work, either.

What a load of **** that is.

Also, spare me your condescending, agitprop, accusatory, patronizing tone. I have even less tolerance for holier-than-thou leftists than I do for right wing ideologues; we all know they don't think, but from you I'd expect some more civility.

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There it is. There it is! The immediate, hostile reaction that militantly refuses to address the points raised. Support for Sanders is basically a religion at this point.

There are ways to win the WH without Florida - there are 49 other states, and Sanders is the most popular dem in the rust belt.

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Congratulations, you can add!

:bravo:

Would you like to teach me more math?

Where in the bloody **** have I said there are no valid criticisms of Sanders? Explain it to me.

To you, and those who are upset about the 2016 election, I owe you nothing. You are sitting here exposing yourself as a judgmental, patronizing person with whom plenty of us would rathert not converse. I have valid criticisms of Sanders. He is lukewarm on ending the drug war. I dislike his swap in immigration, for example. I do not support his position on allowing jailed felons to vote.

Before you open your trap and throw accusations at me, you best not lump me in with irrational smears against a generalized group.

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I'm going to say this again in very simple terms so that you may understand it: Your instant, stubborn defensiveness every time I bring up a point against Sanders IS the problem. You have zero interest in a civil discussion. You have every interest in deflecting criticisms of him, because you want to defend him at all costs. That's what he inspires, that's what he incites, that's why I will never, ever become a Sanders fan. If he gets the nomination, I will hold my nose to vote for him.

Sorry, I am not leading anything by example. I have been blamed - personally - by people like you for the loss in 2016, despite the fact Stein voters could also face the blame; or Johnson voters.

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Maybe you should take the time to understand how the highlighted phrase contributes to the rest of the sentence. Just a thought.

It's not uneducated. Florida can't even count votes correctly, so what difference does it make?

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Just. Stop. You have completely embarrassed yourself with your pure ignorance on this topic, and you need to stop deluding yourself into believing that you have anything of value to contribute to this discussion.

But no. You want to blame -everyone- but yourselves for the democratic electorate choosing a fatally flawed candidate. You have -zero- introspection, and you and I have had this conversation before.

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And here comes the reactionary projection. Right on cue. How about you lead by example and show some introspection for once before accusing literally anyone of not having it. This should be easy for you, but you are choosing to make it very difficult. :thumbs:

Sanders stumped for HRC continuously after he lost. GET OVER IT. YOUR WORDS ARE HOLLOW.

Then 2020 goes to Trump, because folks like you insist on your holier-than-thou high horse approach.

Your condescending tone, patronizing commentary, and your absurd obsession with blameshifting is duly noted. You are a picture perfect example of what these Trumpists -love- about triggered democrats.

Stop your bull**** and vote blue no matter who. Trump is the enemy here, not "berniebros" or "hillbots."

Jesus christ you haven't learned a single thing from 2016.

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What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Obscurity said:

No. Social security is an EARNED benefit, it isn't socialism.

For the most part our socialism is backward, in the manner in which I described it.

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It's a form of socialism because the government plays an active role in its administration. Nobody can opt out and the does decide how much and when employees and employers will pay into the system. The govt. also determines how much individuals receive in benefits.

trixare4kids said:

It's a form of socialism because the government plays an active role in its administration. Nobody can opt out and the does decide how much and when employees and employers will pay into the system. The govt. also determines how much individuals receive in benefits.

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It's an earned benefit. You work, you earn it.

That's not socialism.

Phys251 said:

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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Fare thee well, Phys. Keep enjoying Trump. With your disgusting attitude, you deserve it.

God have mercy on me? You project, accuse, assault - all in defence of your terrible candidate who sucked so much ass she lost to a clown car real estate developer from Manhatten, a loud mouth who insulted literally the entire country, but It's MY FAULT Trump is president.

I do so enjoy how you insist I am immediately defensive when I listed -valid criticisms of Bernie Sanders.-

It's people like you, unrepentant hillary supporters, who lack the insight to question the choice YOU lot made, choosing your social justice trophy for president, it's folks like you who ensured Trump was elected.

Clean your own house.

This, sir, is why folks like you must be ignored, mocked, and scorned.

Unlike you, I will vote for whoever the democrats pick.

But deep down, you will too - and you'll lie about it.

But we all know YOU will continue spewing your insane identity politicking while doing so.

Good riddance. I have nothing to gain from debating you.

slick said:

Bernie was the father of the movement. Now all candidates are following Bernies lead, they are 'Johnny come latelies' I'm by no means
a far leftwinger, but if I was Bernie would get my vote not the copycats.

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And you'd be endlessly attacked for supporting Bernie by Butthurt HRC voters who feel betrayed because their puritanical idiocy disallows them from seeing how stupid their choice was in 2016.

Obscurity said:

No. Social security is an EARNED benefit, it isn't socialism.

For the most part our socialism is backward, in the manner in which I described it.

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LOL. While that is true about social security, many lefties claim that it is a socialist program and give Democrats credit for that socialist policy.

Moderate Right said:

LOL. While that is true about social security, many lefties claim that it is a socialist program and give Democrats credit for that socialist policy.

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It's not a socialist program. What's socialist is using tax dollars to prop up failing industries; like TARP. Or offering public tax dollars as incentives for corporate entities to offer lower paying jobs and destroy local communities.

This is socialism in reverse. It takes from the public to fund the rich.

Obscurity said:

It's an earned benefit. You work, you earn it.

That's not socialism.

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I don't disagree with that. (bolded)
Read what I wrote again.

trixare4kids said:

I don't disagree with that. (bolded)
Read what I wrote again.

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I don't care if you agree. You work, you earn it. Those are -undeniable- facts.

You work, you earn SS.

To you, working and earning is socialist. I guess everyone should work for free.

Obscurity said:

I don't care if you agree. You work, you earn it. Those are -undeniable- facts.

You work, you earn SS.

To you, working and earning is socialist. I guess everyone should work for free.

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Strawman

The above did not disprove what I wrote two posts ago, but if you insist on manipulation by dodging, go for it.

trixare4kids said:

Strawman

The above did not disprove what I wrote two posts ago, but if you insist on manipulation by dodging, go for it.

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It's an earned benefit, no matter what the government decides. It is like insurance. You have to have it to drive a car, and it promises to pay you X if you pay in Y when A occurs.

It's simple. But to you, a libertarian, any "benefit" is socialism and should be scorned.

You don't even know what your libertarian fantasy land would require to function.

And someone who espouses libertarianism in the vein you do should not be quoting a Buddhist.

Craig234 said:

Sorry, but his list of false smears against Bernie isn't addressed by 'what policy is different?' That would be a discussion with a rational and more honest person, not someone who is dishonest and has Bernie Derangement Syndrome. Our conflict was his smearing Bernie, not Warren's positives.

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I agree. And apparently he agrees. Policy isn't what he's concerned with and thats clearly a damn shame because it makes him a very easy target to pick off by the right.

Obscurity said:

It's an earned benefit, no matter what the government decides. It is like insurance. You have to have it to drive a car, and it promises to pay you X if you pay in Y when A occurs.

It's simple. But to you, a libertarian, any "benefit" is socialism and should be scorned.

You don't even know what your libertarian fantasy land would require to function.

And someone who espouses libertarianism in the vein you do should not be quoting a Buddhist.

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If someone espouses libertarian leftist platitudes, they shouldn't care what my sigline says. Libertarians love freedom. You didn't get the memo? :mrgreen:

You go ahead and be stubborn about social security not having some socialist tenets. It is a welfare state program implemented and administered by the federal government. Of course, it is funded by the worker. No one said differently but what you are ignoring is that anyone who calls themselves a libertarian would know that when someone receives a monthly social security benefit a deduction for medicare is taken. Want to know why because the fed. government is both the founder and overseer of both socialist programs.

Obscurity said:

It's not a socialist program. What's socialist is using tax dollars to prop up failing industries; like TARP. Or offering public tax dollars as incentives for corporate entities to offer lower paying jobs and destroy local communities.

This is socialism in reverse. It takes from the public to fund the rich.

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You are not worth debating with. Your eyes are closed. You're jealous of the rich. Rich people bad.

trixare4kids said:

If someone espouses libertarian leftist platitudes, they shouldn't care what my sigline says. Libertarians love freedom. You didn't get the memo? :mrgreen:

You go ahead and be stubborn about social security not having some socialist tenets. It is a welfare state program implemented and administered by the federal government. Of course, it is funded by the worker. No one said differently but what you are ignoring is that Anyone who calls themselves a libertarian would know that when someone receives a monthly social security benefit a deduction for medicare is taken. Want to know why because the fed. government is both the founder and overseer of both socialist programs.

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I do love freedom; to marry who I choose, smoke what I want, ignore the crazy churchies as much as I want.

Wait, so it's not socialist. It's welfare state?

You're befuddled. It can't be socialist if you literally BUY it. You do realize you can CHOOSE to go work under the counter. It's great to have choices.

Social security is an earned benefit; something a scorched earth right wing libertarian like you can't stomach. Then again, like I said, you quote a buddhist and espouse rugged individualism bereft of empathy.

You're a bundle of hypcritical opinions. It is amusing.

Moderate Right said:

You are not worth debating with. Your eyes are closed. You're jealous of the rich. Rich people bad.

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Then don't debate me. We both know you never bother to actually address points you disagree with because you're afraid you may be convinced your ideology is terrible.

Those are your opinions, not mine. I do see you failed to address my claim of socialism in reverse.

Typical.

And again, not my fault; anyone can see it.

Obscurity said:

I do love freedom; to marry who I choose, smoke what I want, ignore the crazy churchies as much as I want.

Wait, so it's not socialist. It's welfare state?

You're befuddled. It can't be socialist if you literally BUY it. You do realize you can CHOOSE to go work under the counter. It's great to have choices.

Social security is an earned benefit; something a scorched earth right wing libertarian like you can't stomach. Then again, like I said, you quote a buddhist and espouse rugged individualism bereft of empathy.

You're a bundle of hypcritical opinions. It is amusing.

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Libertarians pretty much say you're wrong, but you go ahead and have it your way. I don't care that you're wrong.
Few Dare Call it Socialism: Social Security and Medicare | Mises Wire

trixare4kids said:

Libertarians pretty much say you're wrong, but you go ahead and have it your way. I don't care that you're wrong.
Few Dare Call it Socialism: Social Security and Medicare | Mises Wire

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Mises is a moron and an authoritarian. Look at the hideous nature in which "libertarianism" manifested in his little pet project, Chile. A military junta, a dictatorship, which had to construct an impossible legal system to ensure it's duration long after Pinotche was ousted.

You libertarian rightists are blind. Ending programs like SS and Medicare would -require- a massive, authoritarian police state to smash the inevitable riots that would ensue when you destroy the EARNED BENEFITS people have relied on for their retirement and healthcare.

Mises, Milton, Buchanan and the other fathers of libertarian idiocy are a bunch of European and American elitist shills, a bunch of rich clowns who lie and smear. Total frauds.

Helix said:

Just nominate someone who can win.

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Whomever gets nominated it will take a LOT of registrations, canvasing and phone calls to make AbsaByGodLutely sure people can vote and do vote. If Independent Liberals and Democrats vote … tRump loses.

poweRob said:

I agree. And apparently he agrees. Policy isn't what he's concerned with and thats clearly a damn shame because it makes him a very easy target to pick off by the right.

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By 'he' you mean Phys, right? You aren't saying Bernie is not concerned with policy. When you say Phys apparently agrees with my comment... I didn't see that back when I was reading his posts. (His or her)

Helix said:

Just nominate someone who can win.

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can't even nominate the best candidate for this debate...Tulsi.

Dems on stage tonight are all circling the drain.

Obscurity said:

Mises is a moron and an authoritarian. Look at the hideous nature in which "libertarianism" manifested in his little pet project, Chile. A military junta, a dictatorship, which had to construct an impossible legal system to ensure it's duration long after Pinotche was ousted.

You libertarian rightists are blind. Ending programs like SS and Medicare would -require- a massive, authoritarian police state to smash the inevitable riots that would ensue when you destroy the EARNED BENEFITS people have relied on for their retirement and healthcare.

Mises, Milton, Buchanan and the other fathers of libertarian idiocy are a bunch of European and American elitist shills, a bunch of rich clowns who lie and smear. Total frauds.

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Now trix is quoting Mises? If their credibility could go any lower... Mises is for kids.

Irwin Corey said:

Whomever gets nominated it will take a LOT of registrations, canvasing and phone calls to make AbsaByGodLutely sure people can vote and do vote. If Independent Liberals and Democrats vote … tRump loses.

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they need to get out the youth vote. perhaps pushing the plan in which people aren't crushed by college debt will pay off for the Democrats.

Trump said:

can't even nominate the best candidate for this debate...Tulsi.

Dems on stage tonight are all circling the drain.

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they don't wear orange clown paint or shout semi-coherent idiocy out of face anuses. it's not much, but it's a step in the right direction.