"45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

vegas giants said:

You dont. I am very well off.

Click to expand...

Leftwingers with 35,000 posts on chat are not 'well off'. They have nothing else to do.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

Leftwingers with 35,000 posts on chat are not 'well off'.

Click to expand...

Lot of poor trumpers on the government dole here in the deep south

When you retire young...you have lots of time

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

vegas giants said:

You dont. I am very well off.

Click to expand...

Leftwingers were 35,000 posts on chat are not well off. They have nothing else to do.

Anyhow, Im out. I've got five or six leftwing 'families' I have to support

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

Leftwingers were 35,000 posts on chat are not well off. They have nothing else to do.

Anyhow, Im out. I've got five or six leftwing 'families' I have to support

Click to expand...

Well I am well off. Go cash your welfare check before you meet up with your buddies

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

This is being brought up once a year or so, isn't it?

Of note, back in the day they had "hide under the desk" drills fearing communists, now the sky is falling because of climate change.
Seems the sky is falling anew.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

The Romans killed people for not worshipping their gods. That doesn't sound very tolerant to me.

Click to expand...

Not to your modern sensibilities perhaps, but it's more religious tolerance than practiced by later Christian empires towards pagans, for example. The Roman system of allowing conquered peoples to worship their traditional deities worked for centuries to maintain peace across the empire. The Pax Romana.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Luther said:

"Use them for transmission belts for socialism"

Click to expand...

Said by someone who was not a socialist, never had been a socialist, and who had probably neither read anything written by a socialist nor talked to an actual socialist their whole life. I could write about how the goals of American conservatives include the complete genocide of everyone who isn't white on planet earth, and it'd have more weight.

Now this same quote is repeated by you, in complete avoidance of the point at hand. To reiterate: you're accusing people who want to feed kids who are hungry and possibly even starving of doing something evil. I seriously wonder whether you listen to yourself.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

So many leftwing atheists say comment how awful it is evildoers get cast into hell, like God is mean for doing it. The fact is, God doesn't do it to these people; they do it to themselves. Why do leftwing atheists think there should be consequences for actions?

Think of it this way. God set up the law of gravity. So if you jump off a building, the consquences are pretty awful. Does that make God awful for the results you get when you jump of a building? And does that absolve you of any fault for your stupid action?

Click to expand...

Three points:

1. So God lacks agency? That's the obvious consequence of this kind of theology. Matthew 25 is pretty clear that Jesus actively separates (aphoriei autos ap allhelion) those who clothed and fed the poor, offered hospitality to strangers, and so on, even as the shepherd separates (hosper he poimen aphoridzei) the sheep from the kids.

2. Whether or not Jesus is to be read as exercising agency here and elsewhere, your point says nothing about whether God's arrangements are coercive. God set up gravity. Fair enough. In doing so God was still coercing people not to jump off of high places.

3. I never said there's anything awful about the arrangement under discussion. I think it's perfectly fine to coerce people to do the right thing (provided, of course, that we know what the right thing is). If it weren't, we'd have to give up punishing thieves and fraudsters, as just one example. I was pointing out that your saying that Jesus would encourage, but not coerce, is in tension with, if not outright contradicted by, Jesus' own words as reported in Matthew.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Irredentist said:

Not to your modern sensibilities perhaps, but it's more religious tolerance than practiced by later Christian empires towards pagans, for example. The Roman system of allowing conquered peoples to worship their traditional deities worked for centuries to maintain peace across the empire. The Pax Romana.

Click to expand...

So that's why Christians were thrown to the lions?

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

THE 45 COMMUNIST GOALS AS READ INTO THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, 1963 - Watchwoman on the Wall

As you look at these 45 goals the Communists had for America almost 60 years ago, many of them seemed unfathomable and impossible then. But so many have come to pass. And now we are finally at a point where the far left politicians no longer tries to hide their true agenda. Used to be leftwing Democrats held their Marxist views in secret, campaigning as conservatives at election time. No more.

Some of the more shocking (in 1963) predictions:

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. Done. The Democrat Party has gone full Marxist.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions. Done.24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition

America desperately needs a Christian re-awakening. We have to root out and reject all forms of Marxism NOW before we become like Venezuela. Kick them out of the media. And above all, STOP Marxists like George Soros from bankrolling all these influential entities with his $18 billion in bribes.

Click to expand...

From your link

the following “Current Communist Goals,” which she identifies as an excerpt from “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen:

Click to expand...

Its from a book written by W. Cleon Skousen, an extreme right wing theocrat
W. Cleon Skousen - Wikipedia

While Skousen was alive, many of his ideas were met with fierce criticism, while his pronouncements made him "a pariah among most conservative activists".[16] In one instance, the constitutional scholar Jack Rakove, of Stanford University, inspected Skousen's books and seminars and pronounced them "a joke that no self-respecting scholar would think is worth a warm pitcher of spit."[16] A 1971 review in the Mormon studies journal Dialogue described Skousen as "inventing fantastic ideas and making inferences that go far beyond the bounds of honest commentary," and also of promoting concepts that were "perilously close" to Nazism.[16]

Click to expand...

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

ashurbanipal said:

Three points:

1. So God lacks agency? That's the obvious consequence of this kind of theology. Matthew 25 is pretty clear that Jesus actively separates (aphoriei autos ap allhelion) those who clothed and fed the poor, offered hospitality to strangers, and so on, even as the shepherd separates (hosper he poimen aphoridzei) the sheep from the kids.

2. Whether or not Jesus is to be read as exercising agency here and elsewhere, your point says nothing about whether God's arrangements are coercive. God set up gravity. Fair enough. In doing so God was still coercing people not to jump off of high places.

3. I never said there's anything awful about the arrangement under discussion. I think it's perfectly fine to coerce people to do the right thing (provided, of course, that we know what the right thing is). If it weren't, we'd have to give up punishing thieves and fraudsters, as just one example. I was pointing out that your saying that Jesus would encourage, but not coerce, is in tension with, if not outright contradicted by, Jesus' own words as reported in Matthew.

Click to expand...

You could say Jesus was providing a warning what would happen to people who didn't do the right thing. That doesn't mean Jesus or God was the one administering the consequences. If you're a parent and you admonish your child to 'drive carefully', that simply means if he doesn't, he could suffer bad consequences. It doesn't mean the parent would or could go out and actively administer the consequences aka cause a wreck for the child.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Quag said:

From your link


Its from a book written by W. Cleon Skousen, an extreme right wing theocrat
W. Cleon Skousen - Wikipedia

Click to expand...

And yet...and yet....80-90% of his listed communists goals have come true.

All the whiny BS in the world doesn't make this simple fact go away. The guy was RIGHT ON THE MONEY.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

You could say Jesus was providing a warning what would happen to people who didn't do the right thing. That doesn't mean Jesus or God was the one administering the consequences. If you're a parent and you admonish your child to 'drive carefully', that simply means if he doesn't, he could suffer bad consequences. It doesn't mean the parent would or could go out and actively administer the consequences aka cause a wreck for the child.

Click to expand...

So, like the parent warning the child about driving, but who had nothing to do with establishing the laws of physics, the mechanics of automobiles, or the laws governing driving, Jesus had nothing to do with setting up the moral system that separates the good from the bad? God had nothing to do with setting up what is good, and what is bad? How in the world is such a being God, if, like the parent, Jesus (or God, for that matter) is merely reacting to a system already established? Who did the establishing? Who made it wrong to fail to feed the poor?

In fact, the verse quoted likens Jesus' actions to those of a shepherd who actively separates different kinds of animals. A previous verse likens them to a master who actively casts out an unprofitable servant. All sounds pretty agency-laden to me.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

And yet...and yet....80-90% of his listed communists goals have come true.

All the whiny BS in the world doesn't make this simple fact go away. The guy was RIGHT ON THE MONEY.

Click to expand...

Actually the complete nutjob wasn't
Much of what he claimed happened before he penned HIS manifesto (note it is not the communists.
Some of which are actually good things,

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party
Now I dont support the communist party but when your govt decides what parties are allowed to exist you no longer have a democracy.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
I agree blacks should be allowed to vote and marry etc....
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
I dont like all forms of art but I dont want the govt deciding what art is (its amazing how many I want govt out of my life types want govt to control so much of their lives)
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
see above
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
Yup gotta have the govt decide what is decent after all that's what freedom is all about!!!!
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
Yeah keeping religion out of politics is a good thing. Your link is proof of that

I could go on but I dont feel like wasting my day pointing out how much you people love fascism

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

And yet...and yet....80-90% of his listed communists goals have come true.

All the whiny BS in the world doesn't make this simple fact go away. The guy was RIGHT ON THE MONEY.

Click to expand...

Doesn't mean these are communist goals. I could predict some things that I'm pretty sure will come true, and say that they're "evangelical goals," and then wait a few years and start a thread just like this one. Doesn't make me right about them being evangelical goals.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

ashurbanipal said:

Doesn't mean these are communist goals. I could predict some things that I'm pretty sure will come true, and say that they're "evangelical goals," and then wait a few years and start a thread just like this one. Doesn't make me right about them being evangelical goals.

Click to expand...

Much happened before he penned his nonsense
The guy what a complete and utter nutter with no credibility even in the right when he wrote his BS
Only now that the extreme religious right has taken over the GOP has he started to be acclaimed by talking heads who care more about creating a fascist state where they dictate what people think than freedom which the country was founded on.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

ashurbanipal said:

So, like the parent warning the child about driving, but who had nothing to do with establishing the laws of physics, the mechanics of automobiles, or the laws governing driving, Jesus had nothing to do with setting up the moral system that separates the good from the bad? God had nothing to do with setting up what is good, and what is bad? How in the world is such a being God, if, like the parent, Jesus (or God, for that matter) is merely reacting to a system already established? Who did the establishing? Who made it wrong to fail to feed the poor?

In fact, the verse quoted likens Jesus' actions to those of a shepherd who actively separates different kinds of animals. A previous verse likens them to a master who actively casts out an unprofitable servant. All sounds pretty agency-laden to me.

Click to expand...

God established the perfect system of justice. Again, why you leftwingers believe there should be no consequence? This is how a child thinks. Think like an adult, a conservative Christian.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

God established the perfect system of justice. Again, why you leftwingers believe there should be no consequence? This is how a child thinks. Think like an adult, a conservative Christian.

Click to expand...

God told me never to listen to christians

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

ashurbanipal said:

Doesn't mean these are communist goals. I could predict some things that I'm pretty sure will come true, and say that they're "evangelical goals," and then wait a few years and start a thread just like this one. Doesn't make me right about them being evangelical goals.

Click to expand...

So many of the things he predicted were viewed as absurd in 1963. The idea of transsexuality being given mainstream treatment? Come on. That would have been seen as freakish as recently as ten years ago. The idea of America being viewed by the American left as the enemy? Ridiculous. Democrats and JFK were staunchly pro-military patriots. Can you image violent Marxist maggots like Antifa being given favorable treatment in the media back then?

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

God established the perfect system of justice. Again, why you leftwingers believe there should be no consequence? This is how a child thinks. Think like an adult, a conservative Christian.

Click to expand...

Perhaps but man has never seen it.
As t thinking like an adult, perhaps you should try it sometime. Well heck think like a child to start but just think something you extremists refuse to do

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Quag said:

Much happened before he penned his nonsense
The guy what a complete and utter nutter with no credibility even in the right when he wrote his BS
Only now that the extreme religious right has taken over the GOP has he started to be acclaimed by talking heads who care more about creating a fascist state where they dictate what people think than freedom which the country was founded on.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I know a little about him. He was a complete nut.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

Jesus would implore individuals voluntarily feed the poor. He wouldn't coerce people through government threat of force. Jesus was at odds with the big leftwing government of His day.

Click to expand...

Jesus did not consider poverty a moral failing, and his recommendation was not to let them just die on the streets until they learned their lesson.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

God established the perfect system of justice. Again, why you leftwingers believe there should be no consequence? This is how a child thinks. Think like an adult, a conservative Christian.

Click to expand...

Two points:

1. I never said there shouldn't be consequences. Actually, I said it's perfectly fine to coerce people into doing the right thing. Coercion is, by definition, using prudential or material consequences to get someone to take an action or adopt a belief (or some such) that would otherwise ostensibly be motivated by reasoned concerns. Threatening hell for someone who doesn't feed the poor is coercion. And I have no problem with God, Jesus, or anyone else threatening consequences to someone who is acting wrongly.

2. You either don't understand your own position, or you do and you're trying to run from it. It's quite simple: if God willingly set things up so that if people do X or don't do Y, they will suffer consequences, then God has coerced human beings. If God did not willingly set things up so that if people do X or don't do Y, they will suffer consequences, then at best God lacks agency, and at worst, is not God. There is no middle ground to be had between those positions; together they take up all the relevant logical space there is. And it's pretty clear from the passage I quoted which one is correct: God uses coercion.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

Mashmont said:

And yet...and yet....80-90% of his listed communists goals have come true.

All the whiny BS in the world doesn't make this simple fact go away. The guy was RIGHT ON THE MONEY.

Click to expand...

He lists free international trade as a goal.

The fact that we have that scares you now? So odd.

Re: "45 Communist Goals for America" - as read into the Congressional Record, Jan. 10, 1963

vegas giants said:

God told me never to listen to christians

Click to expand...

I think it was your bottle of Mad Dog that must have told you that.