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Thread: Why is climate change political?

  1. #121
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    Re: Why is climate change political?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Research.

    Visit the UN IPCC website. Read minutes from the multiple climate gatherings.

    Ask yourself why the insiders are demanding over $1 trillion per year from the West to be transferred to UN identified operations for mitigation.

    Read the opening statement of Maurice Strong, the Father of Global Warming, at the Rio conference he organized at the beginning of this scam.
    Oh so you want us to suddenly use the UN agenda on Climate Change as if its the fundamental arbiter of what Climate Change issues are all about. What a joke. The alt-right gives the UN less credibility than I do and yet on this issue the UN is suddenly the arbiter of the matter and the very definition of it as well.

    Give me a break.

  2. #122
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    Re: Why is climate change political?

    Quote Originally Posted by snakestretcher View Post
    How does one "lose" generated electricity? I'm genuinely interested; not being confrontational for the sake of it.
    I used only the term "lose" but that also included what others term as "waste". There many links about this topic but here are some:

    Adding Up The Losses

    Generating electricity, we lost 22 quadrillion Btu from coal, natural gas, nuclear and petroleum power plants in 2013 in the U.S. – that’s more than the energy in all the gasoline we use in a given year.

    Moving electricity from plants to homes and businesses on the transmission and distribution grid, we lost 69 trillion Btu in 2013 – that’s about how much energy Americans use drying our clothes every year.
    Lost In Transmission: How Much Electricity Disappears Between A Power Plant And Your Plug? | Inside Energy

    The Power Quality market, which is made up by these products, is enormous and all compete to recover Waste in our Grid. These companies make billions of dollars so the opportunity is huge, but how huge? How big is the “Wasted Electricity” market? The answer is somewhat frightening because nobody knows. We lack adequate Measurement and Verification methods to tell us precisely what is occurring in the Grid at any given moment.
    Wasted Electricity vs. Lost Electricity

    Current efforts to conserve energy and reduce emissions are significant. Some governments in Europe have set targets of 50% for the energy conservation. But is this the whole story? The overall efficiency from primary energy to delivered work is about 33% for energy in the US. Almost 2/3 of the energy that is consumed as primary energy is released as waste.
    Grid Efficiency: An Opportunity to Reduce Emissions | Energy Central
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 09-07-19 at 10:17 AM. Reason: add link
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #123
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    Re: Why is climate change political?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Thanks, I'll check it out.
    Proud to be a godless heathen.

  4. #124
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    Re: Why is climate change political?

    Quote Originally Posted by jnug View Post
    Oh so you want us to suddenly use the UN agenda on Climate Change as if its the fundamental arbiter of what Climate Change issues are all about. What a joke. The alt-right gives the UN less credibility than I do and yet on this issue the UN is suddenly the arbiter of the matter and the very definition of it as well.

    Give me a break.
    Ummm.

    The UN IPCC is the fundamental arbiter of what Climate Change issues are and more critically, what the Nations of World are to do about it.

    Really remarkable you would question that.

    I think the UN lost all credibility years ago, but that doesn't matter to the Climatists who want to turn over control to them.

    UNFCCC COP 21 Paris France - 2015 Paris Climate Conference

    "The international political response to climate change began at the Rio Earth Summit in 1992,....."


    "Began at the Rio Earth Summit in 1992....." where Maurice Strong laid out the global social justice agenda the UN was to promote under the banner of "The environment".
    “When you talk about the firm that produced the Steele reporting, the name of the firm that produced that was Fusion GPS. Is that correct?”

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  5. #125
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    Re: Why is climate change political?

    Quote Originally Posted by snakestretcher View Post
    Thanks, I'll check it out.
    I have updated post #122 with more links.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #126
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    Re: Why is climate change political?

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    What does any of this have to do with the facts of climate change?
    The thread is about the political aspects of climate change. government subsidies are political. china ramping coal back up and solar down is both political and has carbon implications. Try to keep up.

  7. #127
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    Re: Why is climate change political?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Ummm.

    The UN IPCC is the fundamental arbiter of what Climate Change issues are and more critically, what the Nations of World are to do about it.

    Really remarkable you would question that.

    I think the UN lost all credibility years ago, but that doesn't matter to the Climatists who want to turn over control to them.

    UNFCCC COP 21 Paris France - 2015 Paris Climate Conference

    "The international political response to climate change began at the Rio Earth Summit in 1992,....."


    "Began at the Rio Earth Summit in 1992....." where Maurice Strong laid out the global social justice agenda the UN was to promote under the banner of "The environment".
    Your position is as screwy is DonDon claiming that NATO countries are not "paying their dues". More BS....more straw-men....a tool of the Right.

    UN IPCC is trying to get energy expenditures shifted from fossil fuels to renewables and cut global warming down to 2 degrees C per year as a target. They are not looking for the West to send them a check for Trillions just as NATO countries are not missing dues payments that NATO is expecting. Some NATO countries are not meeting the 2% level of national defense spending but those are not dues.

    Countries participating in COP and UN IPCC are committed to their independent national efforts with the intended goal cutting global warming. The only thing they have agreed to at this point is the target (less than 2 degrees C increase in global warming by a metrix that is defined).

    The actual language that is binding in the Paris Agreement results in the following:
    Under the Paris Agreement, each country must determine, plan, and regularly report on the contribution that it undertakes to mitigate global warming. No mechanism forces a country to set a specific target by a specific date, but each target should go beyond previously set targets.


    In other words there is nobody including COP or UN IPCC shoving anything down anyones throats. A participating country decides its own targets independently and then should meet those targets independently. Thats it. Just as in NATO the issue is not dues or even a hard and fast binding agreement regarding the percentage of GDP allotted to National Defense. The only binding aspect of participation at this point is the criticism a country will take for setting its own Paris Accord targets and then making no effort whatsoever to meet them.

    Of course a country led by a President ignorant enough not to know weather from climate that claims that he simply does not see how his aerosol spray can have an impact because he "only uses it in the bathroom" might be in for some criticism for being dumb a s tree stump as its forests burn and its farm land lies under water and its shorelines constantly breeched by ever larger storms.

    As a country, you can either set your own targets and hit them or sit there with your thumb up your butt (DonDon's approach) and simply let the country and the world burn or drown or die of famine or the resultant military conflicts that spring from fear of burning, drowning or famine. I suppose YOU might be motivated when you need a small outboard motorboat just to get from your front door to your mailbox or when a fire is right outside your door. Great plan.....should do wonders for your kids.
    Last edited by jnug; 09-07-19 at 11:23 AM.

  8. #128
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    Re: Why is climate change political?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    From Strong's speech and command to the assembled people at the summit in Rio:

    Excerpts:

    "The same processes of economic growth which have produced such unprecedented levels of wealth and power for the rich minority and hopes of a better life for everyone have also given rise to the risks and imbalances that now threaten the future of rich and poor alike. This growth model, and the patterns of production and consumption which have accompanied it, is not sustainable for the rich; nor can it be replicated by the poor. To continue along this pathway could lead to the end of our civilization."

    ______

    "Yet the poor need economic and social development as the only means of relieving the vicious circle of poverty in which they are caught up. Their right to development cannot be denied; nor should it be impeded by conditions unilaterally imposed on the financial flows or trade of developing countries. The rich must take the lead in bringing their development under control, reducing substantially their impacts on the environment, leaving environmental 'space' for developing countries to grow. The wasteful and destructive lifestyles of the rich cannot be maintained at the cost of the lives and livelihoods of the poor, and of nature."

    Note, there is nothing in there about climate. It's about social justice. Maurice Strong helped develop Agenda 21, and "Global Warming" as it was called at the time, as a means of carrying out a Socialist Agenda masquerading as what became "Climate Change".

    You should look up the funding levels of various "research" facilities, before and after the UN's effort. Obscure scientists became famous when they produced outcomes that fed the objective. And scientists who questioned the theories were destroyed.

    Had you ever heard of Maurice Strong before? Honestly?
    No, this is the first time I’m hearing about him.

    But reading him, I don’t see anything that horrible about what he is saying. It is true that the countries which will likely be most impacted by climate change or not the ones causing the problem. It does seem objectively unfair.

    Unfortunately, pollution and climate change do not respect to geopolitical borders. It is a global problem, and it makes sense to approach it from a global perspective.

    But even if you disagree with that approach or that solution, that does not make the science wrong.

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    Re: Why is climate change political?

    I don't know why lots of things that shouldn't be political are all I know is we used to be a "can do" country. We walked the walk and talked the talk.
    When we became this nation of whiners I will never understand.
    I don't have a job...its that guys fault.
    My life sucks...its those people over there so I'm gonna kill em all.
    Climate change....no uhn, it's a lie and I need a job.

    Back in the day we had big smoke stacks everywhere pumping **** in the air, we collectively got together and changed that.
    When we were told the ozone was going away we believed the science and changed things.
    Yeah let's keep arguing and fighting and forget we are the best at anything we decide to do.

  10. #130
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    Re: Why is climate change political?

    Quote Originally Posted by jnug View Post
    Your position is as screwy is DonDon claiming that NATO countries are not "paying their dues". More BS....more straw-men....a tool of the Right.

    UN IPCC is trying to get energy expenditures shifted from fossil fuels to renewables and cut global warming down to 2 degrees C per year as a target. They are not looking for the West to send them a check for Trillions just as NATO countries are not missing dues payments that NATO is expecting. Some NATO countries are not meeting the 2% level of national defense spending but those are not dues.

    Countries participating in COP and UN IPCC are committed to their independent national efforts with the intended goal cutting global warming. The only thing they have agreed to at this point is the target (less than 2 degrees C increase in global warming by a metrix that is defined).

    The actual language that is binding in the Paris Agreement results in the following:
    Under the Paris Agreement, each country must determine, plan, and regularly report on the contribution that it undertakes to mitigate global warming. No mechanism forces a country to set a specific target by a specific date, but each target should go beyond previously set targets.


    In other words there is nobody including COP or UN IPCC shoving anything down anyones throats. A participating country decides its own targets independently and then should meet those targets independently. Thats it. Just as in NATO the issue is not dues or even a hard and fast binding agreement regarding the percentage of GDP allotted to National Defense. The only binding aspect of participation at this point is the criticism a country will take for setting its own Paris Accord targets and then making no effort whatsoever to meet them.

    Of course a country led by a President ignorant enough not to know weather from climate that claims that he simply does not see how his aerosol spray can have an impact because he "only uses it in the bathroom" might be in for some criticism for being dumb a s tree stump as its forests burn and its farm land lies under water and its shorelines constantly breeched by ever larger storms.

    As a country, you can either set your own targets and hit them or sit there with your thumb up your butt (DonDon's approach) and simply let the country and the world burn or drown or die of famine or the resultant military conflicts that spring from fear of burning, drowning or famine. I suppose YOU might be motivated when you need a small outboard motorboat just to get from your front door to your mailbox or when a fire is right outside your door. Great plan.....should do wonders for your kids.
    Thanks for playing. Next time bring a game.

    Devolving into "DonDon" kind of juvenile banter eliminates you from further discussion.

    “When you talk about the firm that produced the Steele reporting, the name of the firm that produced that was Fusion GPS. Is that correct?”

    “I’m not familiar with that,” Robert Mueller answered.

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