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Where are the Yellow Vests?

nitroexpress

nitroexpress

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Haven't heard much in the news about the Yellow Vests in France. Did they accomplish anything? Are they still demonstrating? And how about the Hong Kong protestors? Do they have any chance of success? I agree with their goals, but China plays hardball and I doubt that they will get any meaningful concessions. With China's high tech facial identification systems, many of the protestors have been identified and neutralized.
 
nitroexpress said:
Haven't heard much in the news about the Yellow Vests in France. Did they accomplish anything? Are they still demonstrating? And how about the Hong Kong protestors? Do they have any chance of success? I agree with their goals, but China plays hardball and I doubt that they will get any meaningful concessions. With China's high tech facial identification systems, many of the protestors have been identified and neutralized.
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Putin has called them back to the Kremlin for now.
 
Phys251 said:
Putin has called them back to the Kremlin for now.
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Except that they were and are rightfully protesting over Macron's pro-rich tax policies; not every demonstration in a western country is a product of Russian interference, even if the Russians seek to sow discord.

The entire thing began because Macron decided to cut taxes for the rich at the same time he tried to offset this by increasing them on the poor/middle class via fuel and pension tax hikes.

nitroexpress said:
Haven't heard much in the news about the Yellow Vests in France. Did they accomplish anything? Are they still demonstrating? And how about the Hong Kong protestors? Do they have any chance of success? I agree with their goals, but China plays hardball and I doubt that they will get any meaningful concessions. With China's high tech facial identification systems, many of the protestors have been identified and neutralized.
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They're still ongoing, because Macron hasn't yet reversed his tax cuts for the wealthy. At this point it's more of a populist movement than a simple protest.

They accomplished several of their goals by successfully pressuring Macron to enact reversals of some of his austerity measures.
 
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nitroexpress said:
Haven't heard much in the news about the Yellow Vests in France. Did they accomplish anything? Are they still demonstrating? And how about the Hong Kong protestors? Do they have any chance of success? I agree with their goals, but China plays hardball and I doubt that they will get any meaningful concessions. With China's high tech facial identification systems, many of the protestors have been identified and neutralized.
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Did you really just ask if the Hong Kong protesters are still protesting? Can't you use google?
 
nitroexpress said:
Haven't heard much in the news about the Yellow Vests in France. Did they accomplish anything? Are they still demonstrating? And how about the Hong Kong protestors? Do they have any chance of success? I agree with their goals, but China plays hardball and I doubt that they will get any meaningful concessions. With China's high tech facial identification systems, many of the protestors have been identified and neutralized.
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Oû sont les neiges d' antan ....
 
NeverTrump said:
Did you really just ask if the Hong Kong protesters are still protesting? Can't you use google?
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Read a bit more closely. I most certainly did not ask if the HK protests were still going on.
 
Surrealistik said:
Except that they were and are rightfully protesting over Macron's pro-rich tax policies; not every demonstration in a western country is a product of Russian interference, even if the Russians seek to sow discord.

The entire thing began because Macron decided to cut taxes for the rich at the same time he tried to offset this by increasing them on the poor/middle class via fuel and pension tax hikes.



They're still ongoing, because Macron hasn't yet reversed his tax cuts for the wealthy. At this point it's more of a populist movement than a simple protest.

They accomplished several of their goals by successfully pressuring Macron to enact reversals of some of his austerity measures.
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France′s ′yellow vests′ and the Russian trolls that encourage them | World| Breakings news and perspectives from around the globe | DW | 15.12.2018

The protests began as legitimate but Russia infiltrated the country and fanned the flames. The yellow vests went way too far and needed to be stopped.
 
Phys251 said:
France′s ′yellow vests′ and the Russian trolls that encourage them | World| Breakings news and perspectives from around the globe | DW | 15.12.2018

The protests began as legitimate but Russia infiltrated the country and fanned the flames. The yellow vests went way too far and needed to be stopped.
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Whether or not Russia is encouraging the protests, they are still completely legitimate; it's like saying anti-poverty or G7 protests suddenly aren't legitimate because Black Bloc anarchists infiltrated them and encouraged unlawful behaviour. Beyond physical clashes with authorities (which let's face it, they're not entirely at fault for) and property damage which cannot be attributed to the entirety of the movement, how have they gone too far exactly? What of the majority of participants who are protesting peacefully? Have they gone too far? Should they be 'stopped' too?
 
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Surrealistik said:
Whether or not Russia is encouraging the protests, they are still completely legitimate; it's like saying anti-poverty or G7 protests suddenly aren't legitimate because Black Bloc anarchists infiltrated them and encouraged unlawful behaviour. Beyond physical clashes with authorities (which let's face it, they're not entirely at fault for) and property damage which cannot be attributed to the entirety of the movement, how have they gone too far exactly? What of the majority of participants who are protesting peacefully? Have they gone too far? Should they be 'stopped' too?
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-dame-fire-protest-paris-macron-a8879521.html

France’s interior minister said a total of 9,600 people were demonstrating across France, including 6,700 in Paris, in a largely peaceful day of protesting.
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Peaceful protests are fine.

Yellow vest protesters have set fire to dozens of motorbikes and cars in Paris after a protest, partially criticising the government’s response to the Notre Dame fire, descended into violence.

Clashes broke out when efforts by riot police to stop the protest provoked demonstrators to throw flares and start fires.
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Rioting and destroying property is not.
 
Surrealistik said:
Sure; no one's disputing property destruction and violent clashes happened.

But it makes little sense to condemn the entire movement and assert that it should be stopped wholesale either because of the limited influence of bad actors, or a minority of trouble makers.
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Why are you being dismissive of riots incited by a foreign government? You realize how serious this is?
 
Phys251 said:
Why are you being dismissive of riots incited by a foreign government? You realize how serious this is?
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Foreign influence is certainly serious, but we don't know whether Russian influence specifically was responsible for causing riots though, or to what extent it actually has control over the Yellow Vests.

But more importantly, while it should be acknowledged that a foreign govt of means and motive will often seek to create and exacerbate disharmony in a rival country, whether that govt is America (yes, we're definitely up there in terms of seeking and achieving destabilization), Russia, China, or otherwise, that doesn't mean however, that we can or should seek to shut down/suppress/disband or rob of legitimacy any and every political movement, event and entity those govts touch and are attempting to subvert or corrupt to their ends; that is the classic, timeless excuse of a dictator like Winnie Xi (who has repeatedly brought this up when addressing the Hong Kong protesters).

There are countless legitimate grievances and points of aspiration, from civil rights to democratic reform, to anti-poverty that can be leveraged to underhanded ends by an enemy government; the response to foreign influence should not be persecuting citizens pursuing these things, which would kill the fundamental character of an open and democratic society, but specifically rooting out the willing and aware agents of that enemy govt.
 
Surrealistik said:
Foreign influence is certainly serious, but we don't know whether Russian influence specifically was responsible for causing riots though, or to what extent it actually has control over the Yellow Vests.
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The fact that Russia has infiltrated the yellow vests and incited violence and property damage is very problematic, wouldn't you agree?
 
Phys251 said:
The fact that Russia has infiltrated the yellow vests and incited violence and property damage is very problematic, wouldn't you agree?
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Yes, it is.

What I'm saying though is that rather going after the protesters/Yellow Vest movement for it, resources should be devoted to identifying and shutting down Russian avenues of influence, then taking punitive actions against the country if deemed necessary or justified.
 
Surrealistik said:
Yes, it is.
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Good.

What I'm saying though is that rather going after the protesters/Yellow Vest movement for it, resources should be devoted to identifying and shutting down Russian avenues of influence, then taking punitive actions against the country if deemed necessary or justified.
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A good democracy can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. France can let the nonviolent protesters protest as much as they want while stifling the rioters as well as thwarting Russia's attempts to incite the rioters.
 
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[h=1]Furious French Protest Climate Policies, Cost of Living, Pension Reforms[/h][FONT=&quot]Guest essay by Eric Worrall France has been brought to a standstill as yellow vests opposed to President Macron’s climate policies joined forces with around 800,000 protestors opposed to cost of living increases, fuel price hikes and pension reforms. Tensions flare in Paris as yellow vests join French retirement protests Scuffles broke out in Paris…
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