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Don't Respond to Slurs With Rational Arguments

What is that supposed to mean? What about that Michigan city council candidate who said to keep town as white as possible?

Seems like a simple question. Why is it "proper" to call other people's comments "racist"?

And what if the other party doesn't think the comment is racist. From his POV, wouldn't it seem like you're trying to shut down the discussion?
 
For starters, it's a subjective call and a matter of opinion. For example, AOC tried to paint Pelosi as racist. It underscores just how far standards have sunk for Pelosi to be considered the adult in the room.

People worried about being called out for their racist positions or support for racist commentary could always just stop with the racist rhetoric.

It's not rocket science.
 
Seems like a simple question. Why is it "proper" to call other people's comments "racist"?

And what if the other party doesn't think the comment is racist. From his POV, wouldn't it seem like you're trying to shut down the discussion?

Let's turn around the table and apply your question: during a discussion about Jews and black people, the other person tells me that they are subhumans and should not be given any rights. If he isn't racist, then that would probably mean he's trying to end the discussion.
 
I asked a question. Why do people call out racism? What is their motivation? And I followed that up with a hypothetical. If it is to shut down or derail a conversation, then it will not have a positive effect.

We are in agreement, and after rereading the O/P, I think that's all he was saying as well.
Of course racism should be called out, but way too many are shouting racism where none exists because they know in fact that it shuts down the conversation. Those who try this lowly stunt should not be given the time of day...
 
We are in agreement, and after rereading the O/P, I think that's all he was saying as well.
Of course racism should be called out, but way too many are shouting racism where none exists because they know in fact that it shuts down the conversation. Those who try this lowly stunt should not be given the time of day...

Trix cereal is racist against Cocoa Puffs...
 
Maybe the solution in today's environment is to not be conversant. I want to kick people that say we need more "dialog". From a virtue signaller it means that they want more opportunity to be abusive. My "dialog" to virtue signallers is "go to hell".

We are in agreement, and after rereading the O/P, I think that's all he was saying as well.
Of course racism should be called out, but way too many are shouting racism where none exists because they know in fact that it shuts down the conversation. Those who try this lowly stunt should not be given the time of day...
 
For starters, it's a subjective call and a matter of opinion. For example, AOC tried to paint Pelosi as racist. It underscores just how far standards have sunk for Pelosi to be considered the adult in the room.

Pejoratives like racist, nazi, bigot, have been extremely overused by idiots who have a need to win the debate at any cost. People who do this should be ignored.
 
Let's turn around the table and apply your question: during a discussion about Jews and black people, the other person tells me that they are subhumans and should not be given any rights. If he isn't racist, then that would probably mean he's trying to end the discussion.

So you're not going to explain why it's proper to call stuff racist? Especially given the likelihood it will derail the discussion if the other party disagrees?

Not sure there's anything left to discuss with someone who says Jews and blacks are subhumans. I'd tune that person out as quickly as I'd tune out the person who calls everything he doesn't personally like racist.
 
Or sued if they inflict tangible damage.

Pejoratives like racist, nazi, bigot, have been extremely overused by idiots who have a need to win the debate at any cost. People who do this should be ignored.
 
So you're not going to explain why it's proper to call stuff racist? Especially given the likelihood it will derail the discussion if the other party disagrees?

Not sure there's anything left to discuss with someone who says Jews and blacks are subhumans. I'd tune that person out as quickly as I'd tune out the person who calls everything he doesn't personally like racist.

Exactly the point. Besides saying something is racist doesn't mean the conversation will end. I've had discussions with seemely racist people and it turns out that I could see what they mean.
 
Maybe the solution in today's environment is to not be conversant. I want to kick people that say we need more "dialog". From a virtue signaller it means that they want more opportunity to be abusive. My "dialog" to virtue signallers is "go to hell".

On forums like this, it doesn't pay to tell them to go to hell because then you get punished too. Just think it, move on and write them off. Most who call racist, where none exists, are doing so to illicit a reaction. Don't give it to them.
For instance, we all know one of their favs. is to label Trump voters racists because they say he is one too... How many times do we read this during the course of a week? These people are not interested in a civil discussion which I believe is the O/Poster's point. And it's a very good point.
 
Pejoratives like racist, nazi, bigot, have been extremely overused by idiots who have a need to win the debate at any cost. People who do this should be ignored.

If people don't want to be called Nazis, they need to start agreeing with liberals & voting for Democrats.
 
If "go to hell" won't work, something like this will get the point across: :bs

On forums like this, it doesn't pay to tell them to go to hell because then you get punished too. Just think it, move on and write them off. Most who call racist, where none exists, are doing so to illicit a reaction. Don't give it to them.
For instance, we all know one of their favs. is to label Trump voters racists because they say he is one too... How many times do we read this during the course of a week? These people are not interested in a civil discussion which I believe is the O/Poster's point. And it's a very good point.
 
Trix cereal is racist against Cocoa Puffs...


tenor.gif
 
If "go to hell" won't work, something like this will get the point across: :bs

ymmv
but in this forum, ignoring crazy is probably better for one's health or as you did raise the :bs flag
or just say... :2wave:
 
The words "racist", "bigot", "Xphobe", and so on are not rational arguments, they are slurs (whether directed against a person or against an argument) designed to make people be quiet. They have the same value and purpose as the n word.

If you make a rational argument, and someone counters by calling you or the argument some variant of ist, ism, or ic, it is counter-productive to try to respond to such slurs with further argument (imagine the absurdity of a black person getting called the n word, and proceeding to argue that that slur is inaccurate as applied to them). Depending on the particular person you're dealing with, the correct response will either be to stop responding to them, or to try to calmly explain that such terms are irrelevant to the question of what's true. In no case does arguing that you aren't a racist (or what have you) have any value, it only encourages further use of such slurs by allowing the conversation to be derailed from the original point.

If you thought these were comparable you wouldn't be writing "the n word."
 
If people don't want to be called Nazis, they need to start agreeing with liberals & voting for Democrats.

Correct. If you vote for nazis, you're going to be called a nazi. I'm not sure what's so controversial here.
 
Correct. If you vote for nazis, you're going to be called a nazi. I'm not sure what's so controversial here.

Trump is Hitler spelled sideways!

:eek:
 
:lol:

Did they really put dark-skinned kids on the box for the chocolatey version of the cereal? Or is it just a photoshop job?

This is actually an interesting example.

I personally can't understand why a person of any race--black or white--if they cared at all, wouldn't just find this funny. Just the simplicity and absurdity of it. How can you possibly get a message about hatred, racial superiority, harmful prejudices or anything offensive out of it?

Yet there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that thousands of people took a look at this and screamed outrage at anyone willing to listen.

Poor Quaker probably thought they'd been hit by a truck the day after the boxes hit shelves.
 
You're talking about a highly specific case where the ist/ic is a response to a provable fact presented without implications or conclusions. For example, "Black Americans commit crimes at a disproportionately high rate," spoken in a vacuum.

If so, fine. I agree with you. A provable fact can not in and of itself be a racist statement. A writer can disregard ist/ic criticisms to this effect.

But how often do our statements regarding race fall into this narrow category? One in ten times? One in a hundred?

For starters, such statements are usually made in the context of a contentious social or moral issue (e.g. "Does white privilege exist?", "Should black ghettos be gentrified?", etc.) and broad statements about race at the very least strongly imply the writer is invoking them as justification for his position. The statements "Black Americans commit crimes at a disproportionately high rate. ...ergo the persecution they claim is systemic is in fact self-inflicted." or "Black Americans commit crimes at a disproportionately high rate. ...ergo gentrification of black ghettos is less objectionable than gentrification of ghettos generally." with the added implications are no longer provable facts. The former becomes an unproven (and indeed, highly controversial) assertion, and the latter becomes a judgment based on morals and principles that not everybody shares.

My point being that even provable fact (what you call a "true claim") is rarely made in a vacuum, and any given ist/ic slinger may not be attacking the statement itself but instead what he feels is reasonably implied by the statement in the context of the discussion. His intuition about the implications may or may not be valid, and his slinging ists/ics at these implications may or may not be valid. It needs to be judged on a case by case basis.

This is just the case where the fact is provable and presented without conclusions--extremely rare circumstances, in my experience. Far more often there's some degree of uncertainty, subjectivity, or moral judgment involved. Any time these elements come into play, ists/ics can reasonably apply (that is, we can't summarily dismiss the criticism as inapplicable). We have to try to understand what the critic is saying, what he thinks we're saying, and deal with it on that basis, as I said in my previous post.

If I'm coming across as though I'm in complete opposition to the OP, I'm not. I generally agree with you that the ists/ics have been overused to the point where they're nigh meaningless in online discussion. However, your argument that they "are not rational arguments, they are slurs designed to make people be quiet" is overgeneralizing. It's not universally true, and we can't take this for granted. We have to look at the critic and the context, figure out what's being said and perceived, and generally do our best to take others seriously.

Simply because a claim isn't obviously demonstrable doesn't mean it lacks a truth value. While, given a concrete definition for an ist/ic term, one might have a rational discussion about whether or not a person or idea is correctly described by it, that question is still irrelevant to whether the idea is right or wrong.
 
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