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Trump threatens to lift tariffs on Chinese goods to 30% amid escalating trade war

Amelia said:
Perhaps Trump should have remembered/considered those words and sought help from people who did understand the global economy and did understand China.

Trumpsters think we should keep giving more rope to a man who said that China was paying billions of tariff dollars into our treasury. Pretending it wasn't us paying his tariffs -- that is until he realized that that fiction wouldn't float come Christmas shopping time so he backed off of the next round of his draconian tax on hardworking Americans.

But as always, every time we think we're going to get a breather, he ramps it up again. He's strangling us.
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I posed this for the no-alls on this site. The only response is a rant against Trump and his supporters.

Does anyone know of a site where rationale true debate can be found!!!
 
bubbabgone said:
I didn't see any details about what would be your sensible way to bring China in line.

"Before Trump "Democrat" was a dirty word to me. I wouldn't have been rooting Democrats on." Hard to believe coming from a self-labeled "Progressive".

What damage have you personally experienced by the China policy? Or some other Trump policy. Details.
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Trump's trade wars with Canada (started on a lie) and with China (pursued with no finesse, with maximal hurt) have both hurt the dairy and manufacturing state of Wisconsin. My husband's company is Canadian-owned. This is a stressful time. We're holding back on some big ticket purchases because of uncertainty. And if the Trump administration succeeds in its effort to get the whole of Obamacare declared unconstitutional, that's more stress because we're running high medical bills right now and Trump has not followed through on his promise to make healthcare less expensive for all. No, that's not Democrats' fault. Republicans had both houses of Congress for two years and failed to pass their replacement legislation when they had Congress -- and that was a relief since their legislation was guaranteed to make things more expensive for us. That would have quickly and directly broken Turmp's promise instead of the slow motion promise-breaking we're seeing now. So now that the people have spoken their frustration and given Democrats the majority in the House, Trump is plowing along with his efforts to disrupt our family's healthcare by every other method he can think to try. I opposed the ACA fiercely because I didn't want healthcare upended. Republicans didn't do what they needed in order to block the ACA before it became part of the fabric of the country, so now they're trying to upend healthcare again. Why wouldn't I oppose that as much as I opposed it when Obama did it, especially when it's likely to make things such as my gynecological care more expensive?

Are you suggesting Trump's tariffs are NOT hurting consumers? Apparently he privately admits they are, or he wouldn't have postponed his second to last major hike until after Christmas.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
The only Trump policies I fully support are those that are helping to take better care of our military vets.

Policy issues under the Trump administration - Ballotpedia
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I almost fully support.

There are two problems.

First, Republicans passed legislation to help veterans but didn't invest in the electronic and administrative infrastructure needed to make sure veterans saw the benefits. (Much like Obama didn't invest what was needed into making sure his stimulus and his mortgage rescue program were helping the people who needed it.)

And second, to fund the new initiatives he has bragged about, Trump has ordered veterans agencies to move money from other programs. Giving with one hand, taking away with the other.
 
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Amelia said:
I almost fully support.

There are two problems.

First, Republicans passed legislation to help veterans but didn't invest in the electronic and administrative infrastructure needed to make sure veterans saw the benefits. (Much like Obama didn't invest what was needed into making sure his stimulus and his mortgage rescue program were helping the people who needed it.)

And second, to fund the new initiatives he has bragged about, he has ordered veterans agencies to move money from other programs. Giving with one hand, taking away with the other.
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Good points. I hadn’t even thought about the needed investment to facilitate programs.
 
bubbabgone said:
Right. And you hate everything else. Resistance for political reasons.
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In addition to failing as a mind reader, you also demonstrate poor reading comprehension skills. Tsk tsk

I specifically used the word “fully” to indicate that there are other policies I partly agree with. And before you ask, no, I’m not going to satisfy your need to prove anything by wasting time dissecting Trump’s other policies.
 
Amelia said:
Trump's trade wars with Canada (started on a lie) and with China (pursued with no finesse, with maximal hurt) have both hurt the dairy and manufacturing state of Wisconsin. My husband's company is Canadian-owned. This is a stressful time. We're holding back on some big ticket purchases because of uncertainty. And if the Trump administration succeeds in its effort to get the whole of Obamacare declared unconstitutional, that's more stress because we're running high medical bills right now and Trump has not followed through on his promise to make healthcare less expensive for all. No, that's not Democrats' fault. Republicans had both houses of Congress for two years and failed to pass their replacement legislation when they had Congress -- and that was a relief since their legislation was guaranteed to make things more expensive for us. That would have quickly and directly broken Turmp's promise instead of the slow motion promise-breaking we're seeing now. So now that the people have spoken their frustration and given Democrats the majority in the House, Trump is plowing along with his efforts to disrupt our family's healthcare by every other method he can think to try. I opposed the ACA fiercely because I didn't want healthcare upended. Republicans didn't do what they needed in order to block the ACA before it became part of the fabric of the country, so now they're trying to upend healthcare again. Why wouldn't I oppose that as much as I opposed it when Obama did it, especially when it's likely to make things such as my gynecological care more expensive?

Are you suggesting Trump's tariffs are NOT hurting consumers? Apparently he privately admits they are, or he wouldn't have postponed his second to last major hike until after Christmas.
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Trump has the USMCA agreement being held up in the Dem Congress.
One Republican Senator stopped repeal of ACA.

You still haven't detailed how the Trade policy has affected you or how your healthcare has been affected.
"holding back" and "stressful" and "likely to" are emotionally based and so far they don't seem to have a foundation in anything that's actually happened to cause them.
Have your healthcare costs risen because of ACA?
 
As to my progressive label, I was a moderate before Republicans became so extreme that they caused it to be necessary to look for more leftwing solutions to help counteract the harm they were doing to the middle class.

I initially supported either Hillary or Jeb for 2016, but then Hillary started being immoderate -- not in a leftleaning way -- just immoderate in a way which meant she wouldn't be able to achieve the conciliation I hoped she would be able to achieve after the divisive Obama years.

I had similar hopes for Jeb, before he slumped out of contention.

Because of how extreme Republicans were becoming, Bernie was able to win me over. So I was part of that broader spectrum of voters he could have attracted beyond the Democratic party, if Democrats had taken a chance on him.


Now, because of the GOP's spineless support for Trump no matter how bad he is, and because of how bad Trump has turned out to be, I have to vote Democratic for the foreseeable future. Before he showed us how destructively incompetent he is, there were some things about Trump's pre-presidential promises and his (illusory) business success which made me think he might not be so bad. I wasn't too upset that he won. I didn't know how bad things could get. Now they're already much worse than I ever thought possible and are degrading before our eyes.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
In addition to failing as a mind reader, you also demonstrate poor reading comprehension skills. Tsk tsk

I specifically used the word “fully” to indicate that there are other policies I partly agree with. And before you ask, no, I’m not going to satisfy your need to prove anything by wasting time dissecting Trump’s other policies.
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Not so much mind reading as observing. The Resistance has been easy to recognize.
 
Amelia said:
As to my progressive label, I was a moderate before Republicans became so extreme that they caused it to be necessary to look for more leftwing solutions to help counteract the harm they were doing to the middle class.

I initially supported either Hillary or Jeb for 2016, but then Hillary started being immoderate -- not in a leftleaning way -- just immoderate in a way which meant she wouldn't be able to achieve the conciliation I hoped she would be able to achieve after the divisive Obama years.

I had similar hopes for Jeb, before he slumped out of contention.

Because of how extreme Republicans were becoming, Bernie was able to win me over. So I was part of that broader spectrum of voters he could have attracted beyond the Democratic party, if Democrats had taken a chance on him.


Now, because of the GOP's spineless support for Trump no matter how bad he is, and because of how bad Trump has turned out to be, I have to vote Democratic for the foreseeable future. Before he showed us how destructively incompetent he is, there were some things about Trump's pre-presidential promises and his (illusory) business success which made me think he might not be so bad. I wasn't too upset that he won. I didn't know how bad things could get. Now they're already much worse than I ever thought possible and are degrading before our eyes.
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How? Leave the emotion out of it. Just give me supportable details.
 
Amelia said:
As to my progressive label, I was a moderate before Republicans became so extreme that they caused it to be necessary to look for more leftwing solutions to help counteract the harm they were doing to the middle class.

I initially supported either Hillary or Jeb for 2016, but then Hillary started being immoderate -- not in a leftleaning way -- just immoderate in a way which meant she wouldn't be able to achieve the conciliation I hoped she would be able to achieve after the divisive Obama years.

I had similar hopes for Jeb, before he slumped out of contention.

Because of how extreme Republicans were becoming, Bernie was able to win me over. So I was part of that broader spectrum of voters he could have attracted beyond the Democratic party, if Democrats had taken a chance on him.


Now, because of the GOP's spineless support for Trump no matter how bad he is, and because of how bad Trump has turned out to be, I have to vote Democratic for the foreseeable future. Before he showed us how destructively incompetent he is, there were some things about Trump's pre-presidential promises and his (illusory) business success which made me think he might not be so bad. I wasn't too upset that he won. I didn't know how bad things could get. Now they're already much worse than I ever thought possible and are degrading before our eyes.
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Lets be clear you cant support republicans because they are too extreme so you now support the moderate Bernie sanders.

Do you have any idea how silly the above sounds to anyone from any party who isn't drunk?
 
bubbabgone said:
Trump has the USMCA agreement being held up in the Dem Congress.
One Republican Senator stopped repeal of ACA.

You still haven't detailed how the Trade policy has affected you or how your healthcare has been affected.
"holding back" and "stressful" and "likely to" are emotionally based and so far they don't seem to have a foundation in anything that's actually happened to cause them.
Have your healthcare costs risen because of ACA?
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Trump has actively burned the bridges he needed to build in order to get USMCA through Congress.

And thank God for that one Senator since Republicans' replacement plans were so "mean", as Trump admitted while he concurrently twisted legislators arms attempting to get votes for the plans which would have dramatically and directly broken his promises.

The ACA so far is keeping our healthcare costs manageable. I didn't want the ACA, but so far we're okay. If the out-of-pocket caps connected with the ACA are declared void, and if some of the preventative care promised by the ACA is no longer promised, then it is likely tat our medical bills will become unaffordable or that we will not seek life-saving treatment until it is too late.

Trump's trade policies are putting farmers out of business in my state. It's hurting manufacturing. When we lose business, there's a ripple effect through the community. "Holding back" and "stressed" may be emotionally based but it's human, and governmental policies which don't take human dynamics into account are a recipe for disaster. Consumer confidence is an important metric. If us holding back on purchases makes us outliers then fine. If it's part of a wave, then it's not fine. And, no, it's not the media's fault or the fed's fault that our confidence is low. It's Trump effing with businesses which are the lifeblood of Wisconsin.
 
Amelia said:
Trump has actively burned the bridges he needed to build in order to get USMCA through Congress.

And thank God for that one Senator since Republicans' replacement plans were so "mean", as Trump admitted while he concurrently twisted legislators arms attempting to get votes for the plans which would have dramatically and directly broken his promises.
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Those are substance free talking points I could have, and did, hear on cable news. Can you tell me how you've been personally affected by trade policy?

The ACA so far is keeping our healthcare costs manageable. I didn't want the ACA, but so far we're okay. If the out-of-pocket caps connected with the ACA are declared void, and if some of the preventative care promised by the ACA is no longer promised, then it is likely tat our medical bills will become unaffordable or that we will not seek life-saving treatment until it is too late.
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Are you self-insured? Employer insured? Did you have to switch plans? You haven't noticed deductibles increasing? Premiums?

Trump's trade policies are putting farmers out of business in my state. It's hurting manufacturing. When we lose business, there's a ripple effect through the community. "Holding back" and "stressed" may be emotionally based but it's human, and governmental policies which don't take human dynamics into account are a recipe for disaster. Consumer confidence is an important metric. If us holding back on purchases makes us outliers then fine. If it's part of a wave, then it's not fine. And, no, it's not the media's fault or the fed's fault that our confidence is low. It's Trump effing with businesses which are the lifeblood of Wisconsin.
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Consumer confidence is still high.
 
bubbabgone said:
....

Consumer confidence is still high.
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Consumer confidence is the lowest since January, the second lowest of Trump's term.

You think it's going to be better after last week's meltdown?

Guess we'll see. I just know that I'm scared. My consumer confidence is very low. We'll see if the rest of the nation embraces your optimism or if more are sharing my concern after they watch the stock market and listen to Trump's rants, including calling an American public servant that he appointed an enemy on par with the president of China. Stay tuned.
 
Amelia said:
Consumer confidence is the lowest since January, the second lowest of Trump's term.

You think it's going to be better after last week's meltdown?

Guess we'll see. I just know that I'm scared. My consumer confidence is very low. We'll see if the rest of the nation embraces your optimism or if more are sharing my concern after they watch the stock market and listen to Trump's rants, including calling an American public servant that he appointed an enemy on par with the president of China. Stay tuned.
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It's pretty much acknowledged that Powell made a huge miscalculation the end of last year and he's been timid about admitting it and taking actions to repair that mistake.

Depending on where you got that comment that "Consumer confidence is the lowest since January" you'd have seen that January 2019 was the highest since the 80's.
So even after the recent decline it's still very strong.

consumer-confidence-inde.jpg

Look, if you're on board with Bernie you're in no position to worry about consumer confidence.
I still can't fathom your reasoning to bounce from Hillary and Jeb to Bernie.
There's something other than policy behind that decision.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Scary how? Are you an investor?

I'll repeat. We need to deal with China now, or we never will.

If you are concerned about the economy because of Trump's actions against China, then you have just confirmed how powerfully pervasive Chinese industry is in our economy, and how dependent we are becoming.

If THAT doesn't concern you, then IMO it should. So blame it on Trump if you will. But his actions are only showing up the problem we are dealing with, and should deal with while we have someone with the will to do so.
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And of course America's violation of WTO rules is only to be ignored, correct?

Tariffs a '''complete violation of WTO rules''': former deputy trade rep

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Hypocrisy; it's a four-syllable word that you lot need to learn the meaning of.
 
snakestretcher said:
And of course America's violation of WTO rules is only to be ignored, correct?

Tariffs a '''complete violation of WTO rules''': former deputy trade rep

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Hypocrisy; it's a four-syllable word that you lot need to learn the meaning of.
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Hmmm..

Well according to your citation, The USA could simply pull out of the WTO...and that would "fracture the entire global economy."

So this gentleman's opinion that we in the USA are not facing an emergency allowing for tariffs on steel could have the result of the USA pulling out...or of the WTO tolerating (which it appears to be doing) to stave off "fracturing?"

Meanwhile, even the Bloomberg article points out that the USA argues there are valid "emergency" concerns, and in any case there are insufficient WTO "judges" to act even if the issue is raised.

But let's say the WTO does manage to bring it to "review." That would still allow arguments, etc., meanwhile the tariffs would continue.

I guess we here in the USA have no reason for concerns then, since our current government believes we are dealing with an emergency. That there is little likelihood of any actual repercussions from our tariffs outside the economies of China and the USA. Not unless we pull out of the WTO of course. :shrug:
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Hmmm..

Well according to your citation, The USA could simply pull out of the WTO...and that would "fracture the entire global economy."

So this gentleman's opinion that we in the USA are not facing an emergency allowing for tariffs on steel could have the result of the USA pulling out...or of the WTO tolerating (which it appears to be doing) to stave off "fracturing?"

Meanwhile, even the Bloomberg article points out that the USA argues valid emergency concerns, and in any case there are insufficient WTO "judges" to act even if the issue is raised.

I guess we here in the USA have no reason for concerns then, since WE believe we are dealing with an emergency, and there is little likelihood of any actual repercussions from our tariffs. :shrug:
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Well, if you believe Trump you're in for a paradise of prosperity after he sorts China out.
 
snakestretcher said:
Well, if you believe Trump you're in for a paradise of prosperity after he sorts China out.
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I see. So how's about you save your worries for Brexit and the EU, and I'll concern myself with the economic stability of MY country? We'll call it even then. :coffeepap:
 
Amelia said:
Trump threatens to lift tariffs on Chinese goods to 30% amid escalating trade war



Oh goody. That will bring China to heel.

This is getting actually scary.


How much more of this will Republicans let him do before they agree to impeachment or say it's time to trigger the 25th Amendment?
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There is unpublished* consensus on both sides of the isle. Agreement doesn’t drive traffic
* (at leasts MSM)

China is targeting it’s tariffs push efforts on swing states, because they know that in America, winning trumps nationalism every time.

Either China changes to practice “free trade and honest practices” or we disengage from China completely. They have been spoiled by past presidents to believe that if Trump loses, things will go back to “rip off an usual”.

This fight should have started with Clinton, or Bush, or Obama, but they were all out for themselves and their jet set buddies who really run things.

China has targeted your state as a solution to “The Trump problem”. Congratulations.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I see. So how's about you save your worries for Brexit and the EU, and I'll concern myself with the economic stability of MY country? We'll call it even then. :coffeepap:
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Tell you what, when what your country does stops affecting the economic stability of the world, I'll quit. Remember 2008? The rest of the world does and sincerely thanks you for their consequent recessions.
 
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