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Trump threatens to lift tariffs on Chinese goods to 30% amid escalating trade war

I have used Google and by this time you have hopefully done so as well. How, exactly, is it baiting to ask you for the China trade policy positions of your prreferred replacements for Trump? Rather than argue that Biden's (what, me worry?) policy is better than Trump's (or Warren's) impose tariifs to force better 'fair trade' complaince by China you reply with some "baiting" nonsense instead. I get it that you feel required to join into any "Trump is doing/saying someting wrong" thread but at least address the topic (in this case tariffs on Chinese imports) instead of simply spewing Biden or Warren would be better in 2021.
I'm not going to sit here and explain to you why Trump's impulsive and incoherent non strategy is objectively worse than anything his opponents propose. If you can't see it on your own, you're way past the point of being worth a conversation on the issue.
 
No, he's not doing it like a bull in a china shop, he's doing it like a retarded gangbanger on crack.
And NO, experts aren't advising him for one simple reason: Donald Trump NEVER listens to anyone, except those who kowtow and genuflect to him.
If you disagree with Trump, you are INSTANTLY and IRREVOCABLY SHUT OUT, and BRANDED.

There is no "guiding" Donald Trump, there's only bare, raw sycophancy and groveling.
Donald Trump's "advisers" are a pack of Flying Yes Men, nothing more.


LOL, I missed that part where Captain Adverse was blaming Trump's SNAFUs on the experts not trying to give him advice. That's really funny.

Some have tried, and more would be there in a minute if he was interested. Sure, most competent people now know better than to join his administration, but it wasn't always so. And even now they could help without joining the administration, but he doesn't want advice. He knows more than all the experts, don't you know.
 
You think China is the only country that 'plays games?' You think our corporations don't do super shady **** in developing nations? The horrible effects of globalized corporatism is not localized to a single country.
This is the central problem that Trump misses.

China didn't steal any jobs from our country. The CEO's that run major corporations here simply gave them way, so they could save some bucks for a fatter bottom line.

Obviously, the Chinese are not going to turn away work that is exported to them. The source of this problem is Wall St, where exploiting sweatshop labor has become a pastime. The government should withdraw all corporate welfare for those companies that exploit sweatshop labor, but of course, we all know Trump won't do that.
 
I'm not going to sit here and explain to you why Trump's impulsive and incoherent non strategy is objectively worse than anything his opponents propose. If you can't see it on your own, you're way past the point of being worth a conversation on the issue.

The argument that what you see Trump doing is confusing and upsetting you so you'll just assume someone else would do better is not worth debating either. Warren would likely do much the same (make China play by the rules), yet professes that she would do it more slowly and seek more consensus along the way. What Biden would do (if anything) is anyone's guess since it changes quite often and lacks much detail (much the same as what you claim Trump is doing).

Elizabeth Warren Vows to Make Trade Negotiations More Transparent - WSJ
 
LOL, I missed that part where Captain Adverse was blaming Trump's SNAFUs on the experts not trying to give him advice. That's really funny.

Some have tried, and more would be there in a minute if he was interested. Sure, most competent people now know better than to join his administration, but it wasn't always so. And even now they could help without joining the administration, but he doesn't want advice. He knows more than all the experts, don't you know.
The biggest problem that the Mad Hatter doesn't seem to get is that this problem can't be solved in four years, and trying to solve it in that amount of time is how we'll wreck the economy. It took four decades to get to this point and it will take a generation to come back.

Take the tax cuts as an example. There was a perfect opportunity for Trump to make progress. He had a carrot on a stick, from which he could create policy. The tax cuts should have been given to corporations that manufacture here in the states, so as to incentivise them to do more business here if they want the tax cuts.

Another approach (I already mentioned) would be to pull government contracts and subsidies of corporations that exploit sweatshop labor, and give those contracts to ones that pledge to do business at home, where jobs could be created for local communities.

Tariffs are a tool. I have no problem with them being used, but they must be used in a way that targets major corruption, such as products that are made in inhumane sweatshops, instead of broad, sweeping tariffs that affect a large fraction of the overall economy.

That's the problem with this WH. There's no strategy to anything. Just reality tv meltdowns and man-tantrums, that are all done on impulse and on Twitter. :doh
 
...but that's because "enlightened folks" like all those "experts" you cite refuse to cooperate, compromise, or even TRY to give him guidance.

Borrowed (stolen?)

"Trade wars are good and easy to win."

"Nobody knows more about trade than me."

“Nobody knows more about taxes than me, maybe in the history of the world.”

“Nobody’s ever been more successful than me.”

“I understand money better than anybody. I understand it far better than Hillary, and I’m way up on the economy when it comes to questions on the economy,”

"I think I know about the economy better than the Federal Reserve."



Yeah, let's watch some goodhearted and educated people try to "give guidance" to the man who is quoted as having said ALL of the ABOVE.
Captain, your orwellian blackwhite doublespeak would be entertaining if it didn't sound exactly like a Scientologist defending David Miscavige and there wasn't a Mrs. Miscavige being held hostage in the basement of the Gold Base.

We, the American people, are Mrs. Miscavige, and you are defending Mister Miscavige even as the screams of his hostage wife grow shrill and unstoppable.
 
The argument that what you see Trump doing is confusing and upsetting you so you'll just assume someone else would do better is not worth debating either. Warren would likely do much the same (make China play by the rules), yet professes that she would do it more slowly and seek more consensus along the way. What Biden would do (if anything) is anyone's guess since it changes quite often and lacks much detail (much the same as what you claim Trump is doing).

Elizabeth Warren Vows to Make Trade Negotiations More Transparent - WSJ
There are two problems with China.

1. Intellectual Property rights, which is a shaky conversation, because our copyright laws are not their problem. This is largely something that cannot be solved. There isn't a solution for everything, deal with it already.

2. Jobs being outsourced to China.

As I've already explained, it's the CEO's and corporations that are giving the jobs away - China doesn't steal them. There are resolution to this that involve withdrawing corporate welfare to the worst US offenders in the private sector. That's doesn't solve the entire problem overnight, but it would be a major start. This IS what Warren and Sanders propose, and it's much more sensible than impulsive 'tariff by Tweet' policies.

Tariffs should be on the table, but reserved for the worst offenses. Particularly, imports that are produced in inhuman child labor rings and whatnot. This is more responsible than targeting the entire Chinese economy, and wrecking our own to do it.

Again, this doesn't solve the problem, but it would be a major start, and something the EU and other trade partners could get onboard with.
 
I don't think the republicans will ever say enough is enough, he has them mesmerized and fearful, they have no backbone or minds of their own anymore. Short talk about this on TV today, video in link.

The trade war between the U.S. and China escalated Friday, as China announced new tariffs on $75 billion of American goods.

President Trump tweeted in response that American companies were “ordered” to find alternatives to China and that he would increase tariffs on Chinese products.

He also called Fed chair Jay Powell a U.S. "enemy." Judy Woodruff talks to The Washington Post’s Catherine Rampell.

How trade war and Trump’s rhetoric are further unsettling the economy | PBS NewsHour
 
blackwhite — the ability to believe that black is white, to know that black is white, and to forget that one ever believed the contrary

doublethink — the act of simultaneously believing two, mutually contradictory ideas

duckspeak — automatic, vocal support of political orthodoxies

bellyfeel — the blind, enthusiastic acceptance of an idea

Backfire effect When your deepest convictions are challenged by contradictory evidence, your beliefs get stronger.
 
Backfire effect When your deepest convictions are challenged by contradictory evidence, your beliefs get stronger.

Yup, at least until the pain becomes unbearable anyway.
Eighty percent (who knows, maybe more) of all significant social and political change is based on comfort or perceived lack thereof.

Since long before 2016, Republicans, and later "The Party of Trump", have concentrated most of their public image into the role of "punisher", and they sweetened the pot for the believers, by tricking them into thinking that they are part of something.
They believe, more than anything else, more than the economy, more than immigration, more than even Christian values (which at this point can be anything Trump-God says they are) that punishing libtards is "WINNING".

Trump-2016-your-feelings.jpg

Nothing else matters as much no matter how much they deny it.
Nothing else sends immediate short term gratification the way punishing libtards does.

Trump fills up empty lives the way crack does.
Not all drugs are chemical compounds.
Trump's Elixir of Liberal Tears is a three card monte that is marketed as a drug.
It is "the drug", and as with all drug addicts, once hooked, they're a slave to it and nothing else matters.



Nothing else sends immediate short term gratification the way punishing libtards does.
(Witness the continual barrage of reward-seeking behavior on this forum alone!)
It doesn't even matter if it winds up punishing them.
They can't feel that, because the high masks all externalities...until the source of the high goes away, or dries up, or the titty-milk turns sour.
Then the pain comes, and when it does, it comes pent up, full force, unrelenting.

Eventually the pain of addiction forces the addict to seek relief, or it gradually destroys them, and in the end, kills them.

Trumpkins don't realize that all the abuse they've dished out has turned the left numb, so we're better now at dealing with pain than they are.
They wonder why we "hope for a recession".
Well, one reason is because a recession now will be less painful than what we know comes with four more years of Trump and Trumpers.
And we also know that a recession will finally turn off the tap, sour the titty, bring the pain for Trump and his Trumpers.

Pull the bandage off now while we have the stick in our mouth, debride the dead skin and scab, cauterize, or sterilize, suture it shut, reapply fresh dressing.
We will triage, we will repair, we will heal the land, we will heal the heart and mind, and feed the soul.
And we will do it all while kicking ass from now until January 2021 and beyond.

Enjoy that last rock, Trumpers.
 
d.

Enjoy that last rock, Trumpers.

It's not just trump. The entire Republican party are being enablers, and then they are basically trying to use Trump as a scapegoat for their unpopular policies.
 
It's not just trump. The entire Republican party are being enablers, and then they are basically trying to use Trump as a scapegoat for their unpopular policies.

Everyone's a drug dealer in the Republican Party, a dealer, or a driver, a distributor, a cartel soldier... or a manufacturer.
 
Xi is playing the long game, strategically. Trump is in way over his head, and too stupid/stubborn to accept advice from actual experts. If he continues playing tough guy it won’t end well.

^^ That.

If Trump had combined his determination with competent strategy, he could have accomplished a lot with China.

But he didn't do that. And China knows what Trump is afraid of -- Christmas shoppers facing high prices and losing farmer votes.

Of course China has had a long term strategy and no one besides Trump has thought to toss some spike strips on their road.
Doing it when our economy is strong was the right time. Theirs is suffering now and their Communist system allows them to withstand the effect at their citizens' expense.
That thing about Christmas shoppers could have been seen by China as either Trump blinking or as Trump peace offering to get things moving.
China apparently chose the former and here we are.
So ... knowing what game they're playing there's no reason to help them play it by attacking their economic opposition just because he happens to be your political opposition ... especially when you know that's what they want.
 
Of course China has had a long term strategy and no one besides Trump has thought to toss some spike strips on their road.
Doing it when our economy is strong was the right time. Theirs is suffering now and their Communist system allows them to withstand the effect at their citizens' expense.
That thing about Christmas shoppers could have been seen by China as either Trump blinking or as Trump peace offering to get things moving.
China apparently chose the former and here we are.
So ... knowing what game they're playing there's no reason to help them play it by attacking their economic opposition just because he happens to be your political opposition ... especially when you know that's what they want.
You’re kidding yourself if you think that Trump’s strategy of pain for China will cause Xi to knuckle under. That is not going to happen.

And nothing me, or any other member here, has to say about it will make any difference to the outcome.

* BTW, I disagree with Trump on far more than politics.
 
Of course China has had a long term strategy and no one besides Trump has thought to toss some spike strips on their road.
Doing it when our economy is strong was the right time. Theirs is suffering now and their Communist system allows them to withstand the effect at their citizens' expense.
That thing about Christmas shoppers could have been seen by China as either Trump blinking or as Trump peace offering to get things moving.
China apparently chose the former and here we are.
So ... knowing what game they're playing there's no reason to help them play it by attacking their economic opposition just because he happens to be your political opposition ... especially when you know that's what they want.


Yeah, right, I'm attacking Trump just because he's my political opposition. Sure.

No, I'm attacking him because he's attacking America. He's my political opposition because he's attacking America.

My husband voted for Trump because he thought that Democrats' plans would hurt our buying power. Trump has hurt it more than any Democrat would have and it looks like it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Trump has lost my husband as a voter. I voted third party last time but this time will vote for anyone the Democrats nominate, because Trump is that bad.

My family cannot afford four more years of Trump in office. I'm scared about what one more year of Trump will do to us. THAT is why he's my political opposition.
 
You’re kidding yourself if you think that Trump’s strategy of pain for China will cause Xi to knuckle under. That is not going to happen.

And nothing me, or any other member here, has to say about it will make any difference to the outcome.

* BTW, I disagree with Trump on far more than politics.

Yeah, right, I'm attacking Trump just because he's my political opposition. Sure.

No, I'm attacking him because he's attacking America. He's my political opposition because he's attacking America.

My husband voted for Trump because he thought that Democrats' plans would hurt our buying power. Trump has hurt it more than any Democrat would have and it looks like it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Trump has lost my husband as a voter. I voted third party last time but this time will vote for anyone the Democrats nominate, because Trump is that bad.

My family cannot afford four more years of Trump in office. I'm scared about what one more year of Trump will do to us. THAT is why he's my political opposition.

You both are using the trade "war" as another excuse for what you would be, and have been, doing anyway.
If a Democrat President had the balls to challenge China you'd both be on board and so would I.
 
Trump threatens to lift tariffs on Chinese goods to 30% amid escalating trade war



Oh goody. That will bring China to heel.

This is getting actually scary.


How much more of this will Republicans let him do before they agree to impeachment or say it's time to trigger the 25th Amendment?

What's the alternative? Just a question. Are we to bow to them and their allies? Looking ahead, where will it leave us? China is patient, thinking ahead. We are more focused on instant gratification.
My guess is that China is hoping for a limp spine potus so they can roll over us, and that is why they are grandstanding now, hoping to bring us to a recession. They are witnessing our political climate and how divided we are.
Worried about climate change? Think China once they are so big, they simply don't care. Worry about pollution? Nobody is saying a word about all the cargo ships coming and going.

An older article, but you get my drift
What exactly is causing China’s toxic smog? | South China Morning Post

The eco guide to cargo ships | Environment | The Guardian

May be, along with tariffs, we should make a green new deal with China?
Go ahead and dismiss my thoughts with a smile. I admit not being as expert as everyone else seems to be.
 
You both are using the trade "war" as another excuse for what you would be, and have been, doing anyway.
If a Democrat President had the balls to challenge China you'd both be on board and so would I.


If Trump had challenged China in a sensible way, we wouldn't be in the hurt that we're in right now. If Trump had taken China on in a sensible way without first starting a trade war with Canada, then things could have been different also.

If Trump had been willing to take advice from people who knew things about the global economy and about China, then he could have gotten a lot done -- to China. Instead of screwing us.

He declared that we had a trade deficit with Canada when we had a surplus, and he used that to invoke powers that Congress gave the president for time of national security emergency. That's just one of the many ways that Trump has weakened us and made it clear that he was not a person to put faith in on trade matters.


If a Democrat prioritized taking on China, the Democrat would have done it in a sane way, with the support of international trading partners, not while simultaneously wrecking our relations with all those international partners. China wouldn't have given the Democrats everything on their wishlist, but the Democrat would have had gotten more than Trump is getting, since Trump is getting worse than nothing. Trump has set up a situation where Xi cannot capitulate. He has to save face, and now the only way to do it is to take a hard line against the capricious Trump. My state is suffering. The global economy is suffering. And Xi knows that if he gives into Trump it will cost him a lot more than just riding this out. Even with their slowing growth, their growth is still larger than ours. They are building trade relationships with the rest of the governments that Trump is screwing over in his multi-pronged trade war.

Before Trump "Democrat" was a dirty word to me. I wouldn't have been rooting Democrats on. So I probably wouldn't have been on board. I would have been annoyed at their success the way I was annoyed at Obama's success with Iran. The way Trump was annoyed with Obama's success at Iran, except Trump was so annoyed that he blew it up because his first priority was undoing everything he could of Obama's legacy.

So, no, I probably wouldn't have been rooting the Democrats on, but they would have done a better job than Trump is doing, so a lot of people would be rightly rooting them on.

Let's see how much longer farmers keep rooting Trump on with what he is doing to them. They're trying to keep a stiff upper lip -- the ones who haven't lost their farms yet -- but it's getting harder and harder even for the ones who voted for Trump.
 
What's the alternative? Just a question. Are we to bow to them and their allies? Looking ahead, where will it leave us? China is patient, thinking ahead. We are more focused on instant gratification.
My guess is that China is hoping for a limp spine potus so they can roll over us, and that is why they are grandstanding now, hoping to bring us to a recession. They are witnessing our political climate and how divided we are.
Worried about climate change? Think China once they are so big, they simply don't care. Worry about pollution? Nobody is saying a word about all the cargo ships coming and going.

An older article, but you get my drift
What exactly is causing China’s toxic smog? | South China Morning Post

The eco guide to cargo ships | Environment | The Guardian

May be, along with tariffs, we should make a green new deal with China?
Go ahead and dismiss my thoughts with a smile. I admit not being as expert as everyone else seems to be.

Perhaps more of us should remember/consider Plato's words "I know I know nothing".
 
Perhaps more of us should remember/consider Plato's words "I know I know nothing".

Perhaps Trump should have remembered/considered those words and sought help from people who did understand the global economy and did understand China.

Trumpsters think we should keep giving more rope to a man who said that China was paying billions of tariff dollars into our treasury. Pretending it wasn't us paying his tariffs -- that is until he realized that that fiction wouldn't float come Christmas shopping time so he backed off of the next round of his draconian tax on hardworking Americans.

But as always, every time we think we're going to get a breather, he ramps it up again. He's strangling us.
 
You both are using the trade "war" as another excuse for what you would be, and have been, doing anyway.
If a Democrat President had the balls to challenge China you'd both be on board and so would I.
You’re talking out of your keister. I don’t need any “excuse” to oppose Trump’s lousy handling of the trade war he started.
 
If Trump had challenged China in a sensible way, we wouldn't be in the hurt that we're in right now. If Trump had taken China on in a sensible way without first starting a trade war with Canada, then things could have been different also.

If Trump had been willing to take advice from people who knew things about the global economy and about China, then he could have gotten a lot done -- to China. Instead of screwing us.

He declared that we had a trade deficit with Canada when we had a surplus, and he used that to invoke powers that Congress gave the president for time of national security emergency. That's just one of the many ways that Trump has weakened us and made it clear that he was not a person to put faith in on trade matters.


If a Democrat prioritized taking on China, the Democrat would have done it in a sane way, with the support of international trading partners, not while simultaneously wrecking our relations with all those international partners. China wouldn't have given the Democrats everything on their wishlist, but the Democrat would have had gotten more than Trump is getting, since Trump is getting worse than nothing. Trump has set up a situation where Xi cannot capitulate. He has to save face, and now the only way to do it is to take a hard line against the capricious Trump. My state is suffering. The global economy is suffering. And Xi knows that if he gives into Trump it will cost him a lot more than just riding this out. Even with their slowing growth, their growth is still larger than ours. They are building trade relationships with the rest of the governments that Trump is screwing over in his multi-pronged trade war.

Before Trump "Democrat" was a dirty word to me. I wouldn't have been rooting Democrats on. So I probably wouldn't have been on board. I would have been annoyed at their success the way I was annoyed at Obama's success with Iran. The way Trump was annoyed with Obama's success at Iran, except Trump was so annoyed that he blew it up because his first priority was undoing everything he could of Obama's legacy.

So, no, I probably wouldn't have been rooting the Democrats on, but they would have done a better job than Trump is doing, so a lot of people would be rightly rooting them on.

Let's see how much longer farmers keep rooting Trump on with what he is doing to them. They're trying to keep a stiff upper lip -- the ones who haven't lost their farms yet -- but it's getting harder and harder even for the ones who voted for Trump.

I didn't see any details about what would be your sensible way to bring China in line.

"Before Trump "Democrat" was a dirty word to me. I wouldn't have been rooting Democrats on." Hard to believe coming from a self-labeled "Progressive".

What damage have you personally experienced by the China policy? Or some other Trump policy. Details.
 
You’re talking out of your keister. I don’t need any “excuse” to oppose Trump’s lousy handling of the trade war he started.

You misunderstand. That IS the excuse to oppose Trump.
 
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