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Dow drops 400 points after Trump orders US companies to look for an alternative to China

Moon said:
And not surprisingly, the exact opposite behavior will be displayed by the Democrats and Trump haters. It’s called politics.
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I guess creating a pretend scenario to whip out false equivalence is easier than addressing the actual stupid.
 
Moon said:
And not surprisingly, the exact opposite behavior will be displayed by the Democrats and Trump haters. It’s called politics.
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I'm not a fan of "both sides" statements that dishonestly focus on category but ignore the scale of a thing. They are sadly common here.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I actually Googled 3-4 news sources to see if he really said this... lol lol...

are 'hereby' ordered to..................... Hereby ordered??????

Sieg Heil!!!!
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All hail King Don! (or is it Ding Dong?)
 
Mycroft said:
Here's his statement on FB:

Our Country has lost, stupidly, Trillions of Dollars with China over many years. They have stolen our Intellectual Property at a rate of Hundreds of Billions of Dollars a year, & they want to continue. I won’t let that happen! We don’t need China and, frankly, would be far better off without them. The vast amounts of money made and stolen by China from the United States, year after year, for decades, will and must STOP. Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA. I will be responding to China’s Tariffs this afternoon. This is a GREAT opportunity for the United States. Also, I am ordering all carriers, including Fed Ex, Amazon, UPS and the Post Office, to SEARCH FOR & REFUSE, all deliveries of Fentanyl from China (or anywhere else!). Fentanyl kills 100,000 Americans a year. President Xi said this would stop - it didn’t. Our Economy, because of our gains in the last 2 1/2 years, is MUCH larger than that of China. We will keep it that way!​

I've highlighted what I think is most important in terms of the economy and having an effect on the Wall Street gamblers.

I think everyone knows that this "order" to "our great American companies" is nothing more than rhetoric, but that highlighted statement IS something they should be taking seriously if they want to continue making money.

The Fentanyl thing...I don't know for sure, but I suspect the government DOES have the power to enforce this order. In my opinion, though, I think ALL shipments coming from China should be examined for Fentanyl smuggling and it should be done by the government. That means...before an import from China get to Fed Ex, UPS, etc, it goes to customs for the search. If it passes, THEN the carrier can have it and deliver it. And Congress should appropriate the money to do this.
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That's great except one of the first announcements made by the Trump WH in 2017 was that Trump Tweets were official statements from the President. So Trump uses what his own WH has defined as official Presidential Statements to issue an order he can't issue? That is not a joking matter at all. So it is stupid rhetoric...its ignorant rhetoric if one wants to try to squeeze it into the realm of rhetoric. But its Bozo the President. So what else is new!

Getting hard to rationalize your boy lately Trumpettes?
 
Mr Person said:
I'm not a fan of "both sides" statements that dishonestly focus on category but ignore the scale of a thing. They are sadly common here.
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Of course not, because the reality that both sides behave as I describe minimizes whatever point you thought you were making.
 
poweRob said:
I guess creating a pretend scenario to whip out false equivalence is easier than addressing the actual stupid.
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I was referring to a specific statement made by another poster. You can scroll up and find it.
 
Mr Person said:
"ordered"....good lord. How can anyone defend this utter lout?



Just keep an eye out for what the Trumpists suddenly stop defending and start attacking once Trump goes down in 2020. Everything the Dem says and does will be the worst thing on Earth, even if Trump regularly did far far worse. No doubt a good 80% of them will retroactively have actually been real big critics of Trump but you just didn't see it.
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Moon said:
And not surprisingly, the exact opposite behavior will be displayed by the Democrats and Trump haters. It’s called politics.
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Mr Person said:
I'm not a fan of "both sides" statements that dishonestly focus on category but ignore the scale of a thing. They are sadly common here.
Click to expand...

Moon said:
Of course not, because the reality that both sides behave as I describe minimizes whatever point you thought you were making.
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Announcing that you have won a dispute is also the kind of intellectual dishonesty I am not a fan of.




There are 320 million people in the country, so you will inevitably be able to say "both sides" about anything and, in most cases, it is a way to lie by telling the truth. If 50 million people on one "side" do something, and 1 million people on the other do it, well it's technically true that both sides do that thing. But it's also completely false that both sides are doing something fairly comparable. Scale is part of any comparison, like it or not.

Trumpist hypocrisy is splattered all over DP. It has been catalogued in exquisite detail in article after article comparing things the people praising Trump for had previously criticized Obama for. The same goes for cataloguing the responses of Fox and like organizations. (And it gets worse. I spent most of the Obama years criticizing his policies only to listen to the people who later became Trump supporters tell me that I worshipped him). Obama said "you can keep your doctor", so Trump's 10,000+ lies are ok. On and on.

The same people who claimed the economy recovered despite of Obama instantly gave Trump sole credit when he inherited it (even though growth actually slowed a bit on a number of fronts). On and on. And if the economy crashes, you know perfectly damn well that they won't be blaming Trump. They'll blame Dems in congress for "not passing laws", even though the GOP shoots down everything they want to spite them. Or they'll blame past presidents, which will inevitably be Democrats. Hell, when financial deregulation lit the fuse ultimately resulting in the mortgage/financial crisis under Bush. Who got blamed? Past democrats pushing home ownership policies, then Obama got blamed for not magicking the economy back to perfection the moment he walked into office. ****, they even blamed him for the deficit resulting from Bush's TARP.

This kind of partisanship is what's destroying America. It has been stewing a long time, and no matter how much you hate the fact of it, there is a whole lot more lately on the right, specifically amongst Trump's supporters.


If you aren't one of the people who has been praising Trump (or ignoring) for things you criticized Obama for, then you should be able to take issue with those who are.

Instead, we get the tired old debate board maneuver: the dishonest "both sides" statement that defends them by saying "let's ignore the scope of the problem and pretend it's even". That's the more important move. Protect those seen as on your "side" by downplaying their behavior.
 
Mr Person said:
Announcing that you have won a dispute is also the kind of intellectual dishonesty I am not a fan of.




There are 320 million people in the country, so you will inevitably be able to say "both sides" about anything and, in most cases, it is a way to lie by telling the truth. If 50 million people on one "side" do something, and 1 million people on the other do it, well it's technically true that both sides do that thing. But it's also completely false that both sides are doing something fairly comparable. Scale is part of any comparison, like it or not.

Trumpist hypocrisy is splattered all over DP. It has been catalogued in exquisite detail in article after article comparing things the people praising Trump for had previously criticized Obama for. The same goes for cataloguing the responses of Fox and like organizations. (And it gets worse. I spent most of the Obama years criticizing his policies only to listen to the people who later became Trump supporters tell me that I worshipped him). Obama said "you can keep your doctor", so Trump's 10,000+ lies are ok. On and on.

The same people who claimed the economy recovered despite of Obama instantly gave Trump sole credit when he inherited it (even though growth actually slowed a bit on a number of fronts). On and on. And if the economy crashes, you know perfectly damn well that they won't be blaming Trump. They'll blame Dems in congress for "not passing laws", even though the GOP shoots down everything they want to spite them. Or they'll blame past presidents, which will inevitably be Democrats. Hell, when financial deregulation lit the fuse ultimately resulting in the mortgage/financial crisis under Bush. Who got blamed? Past democrats pushing home ownership policies, then Obama got blamed for not magicking the economy back to perfection the moment he walked into office. ****, they even blamed him for the deficit resulting from Bush's TARP.

This kind of partisanship is what's destroying America. It has been stewing a long time, and no matter how much you hate the fact of it, there is a whole lot more lately on the right, specifically amongst Trump's supporters.


If you aren't one of the people who has been praising Trump (or ignoring) for things you criticized Obama for, then you should be able to take issue with those who are.

Instead, we get the tired old debate board maneuver: the dishonest "both sides" statement that defends them by saying "let's ignore the scope of the problem and pretend it's even". That's the more important move. Protect those seen as on your "side" by downplaying their behavior.
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I don’t say I won anything, I was challenging your earlier statement. I’m not overly concerned with what you are or are not a fan of. I don’t write posts for your approval, I write them because of observations I’ve made or opinions I hold. You can call it dishonest all you want to, but that isn’t going to make me want to agree with you.

The behavior I described is easily seen, and I see it all the time when there’s a shift in power. At times it’s funny, and at other times it’s sickening. One thing for sure, if you see someone whose principles are so malleable that one day something is bad and the next that thing is good because now their guy is in power, that’s someone with no principles at all.

Trump lies, definitely. The media lies. Politicians lie. People lie when they want something and they know telling the truth won’t get them what they want. Smart, principled people will see that and avoid it if they can. Problem is I think those people are in short supply these days, and virtually none of them are running for office.
 
down 600 with 13 minutes to go
 
I have to qualify my earlier contention that this "order" by Trump is nothing more than rhetoric because I've learned something that, depending upon upcoming action by Trump, might have some bearing and could actually make this a valid order.

I direct your attention to this: Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 - Wikipedia in conjunction with this: International Emergency Economic Powers Act - Wikipedia

It is entirely possible that Trump could make his order to American companies stick under the provisions of the IEEPA.

We'll have to wait and see what he is going to do.
 
Mycroft said:
I have to qualify my earlier contention that this "order" by Trump is nothing more than rhetoric because I've learned something that, depending upon upcoming action by Trump, might have some bearing and could actually make this a valid order.

I direct your attention to this: Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 - Wikipedia in conjunction with this: International Emergency Economic Powers Act - Wikipedia

It is entirely possible that Trump could make his order to American companies stick under the provisions of the IEEPA.

We'll have to wait and see what he is going to do.
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wild

no doubt trump needs to be removed

god help us all
 
Amelia said:
Nasdaq and S&P down even farther, percentage-wise.

Dow lower than 1 year ago.
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dow hit it's high in early January 2018!

Trump is a complete fraud.
 
Mycroft said:
I have to qualify my earlier contention that this "order" by Trump is nothing more than rhetoric because I've learned something that, depending upon upcoming action by Trump, might have some bearing and could actually make this a valid order.

I direct your attention to this: Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 - Wikipedia in conjunction with this: International Emergency Economic Powers Act - Wikipedia

It is entirely possible that Trump could make his order to American companies stick under the provisions of the IEEPA.

We'll have to wait and see what he is going to do.
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Highly unlikely and if he did, kiss the stock market and his butt goodbye.

That said this is the problem with statements like this. Its either Trump joking over a media that his own WH has already deemed as "official" or he has really stepped in it if he means it.

Again, another pick your poison Trumpettes. He is either using the bully pulpit to cry wolf in a way that can easily be checked, countered but not easily rescinded without suffering political damage or he is laying waste to his own Presidency and his own reelection chances.
 
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jnug said:
Highly unlikely and if he did, kiss the stock market and his butt goodbye.

That said this is the problem with statements like this. Its either Trump joking over a media that his own WH has already deemed as "official" or he has really stepped in it if he means it.

Again, another pick your poison Trumpettes. He is either using the bully pulpit to cry wolf in a way that can easily be checked, countered but not easily rescinded without suffering political damage or he is laying waste to his own Presidency and his own reelection chances.
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Oh...I don't think he's crying wolf. I think this was a deliberate warning to US multinationals.

But I don't know if he'll use these laws to actually order them to leave China. I'm just pointing out that, according to these laws, he could.
 
Mycroft said:
Oh...I don't think he's crying wolf. I think this was a deliberate warning to US multinationals.

But I don't know if he'll use these laws to actually order them to leave China. I'm just pointing out that, according to these laws, he could.
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what laws is he using to empower Putin?
 
Mycroft said:
Oh...I don't think he's crying wolf. I think this was a deliberate warning to US multinationals.

But I don't know if he'll use these laws to actually order them to leave China. I'm just pointing out that, according to these laws, he could.
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Which is crying wolf when using official media. Like I said, DonDon has left you and himself no wiggle room this time.
 
Do not worry folks. The Chosen One has ORDERED American companies to make it better.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I actually Googled 3-4 news sources to see if he really said this... lol lol...

are 'hereby' ordered to..................... Hereby ordered??????

Sieg Heil!!!!
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Well, he is the chosen one so we have to listen to him.
 
Mycroft said:
Oh...I don't think he's crying wolf. I think this was a deliberate warning to US multinationals.

But I don't know if he'll use these laws to actually order them to leave China. I'm just pointing out that, according to these laws, he could.
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It must be exhausting defending this fool president.

Remember the Chosen One has ordered you to stop buying Chinese goods. Make sure nothing you buy was made in China. It's an order. "I herby order.." LOL
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
It must be exhausting defending this fool president.

Remember the Chosen One has ordered you to stop buying Chinese goods. Make sure nothing you buy was made in China. It's an order. "I herby order.." LOL
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That can't be good news for Ivanka.
 
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