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Trump Retreats, Again, on Guns

TurtleDude said:
Ah still trying to attack those who don't support the progressive agenda while pretending not to be anti gun. tell us-given you want to pretend you are a constitutional scholar-do you agree with the FDR expansion of the commerce clause that allowed congress to actually regulate what private citizens did solely within their own states?
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Your last ditch defense 'argument' claiming I attack anyone and am anti 'gun'.... :roll:

First I love my gun, and named my rifles too.... ;)

Next I don't attack anyone, just say regulating the distribution of firearms does have certain restrictions.

I never claimed to be a Constitutional scholar- you do that- but when you drag out that tired dead horse to beat- FDR and the commerce clause (upheld for some 70 years now) I know it's time to stick a fork in it- you are done!

Montana tried to fly an exclusion from the FFL serial number requirements and got shot down. (That wasn't FDR) That was a rabid right temper tantrum reacting to Obama winning the White House. Worthless waste of taxpayer money but the Republicant's have shown they really don't care about fiscal stewardship.

FDR didn't 'expand' the commerce clause on his own, no President can do that so stop the silly rants. FYI to those who haven't heard, I own a few well used and used well firearms. I strongly believe in the oath I took to support and defend the Constitution. I don't for one second believe the NRA shrill rants about 'gun' grabbers, 'gun' banners or forced confiscation.

The extremists on both sides need to sit the **** down and let more rational citizens figure this one out.... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
The extremists on both sides need to sit the **** down and let more rational citizens figure this one out.... :peace
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Make sure you bring a comfy cushion to sit on.

Seriously...what is there to figure out? The vast majority of violent crime does not involve assault rifles. It doesn’t involve background checks. It doesn’t involve law abiding citizens and gun ownership. The vast majority of violent crime involves inner city violence.

Whoever those ‘rational citizens’ are should start there. Unless they don’t really give a **** about violent crime and gun deaths and are, at the end of the day, just committed to an anti-gun cause.


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VanceMack said:
I support background checks for private citizens...providing you can ensure there is NO creation of a gun registry. There IS a perfect working solution. But anti gun types don’t support it because it doesn’t give them what they ultimately want...not background checks...but registration.

The simple fact is that while people continue to clamor for background checks, they ignore the FACT that all of the firearms used in the documented mass shootings were purchased WITH BACKGROUND CHECKS. so what do we need? MOAR background checks.


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What's the objection to registering your weapon? You have to register your car, do you not?
 
VanceMack said:
What a foolish statement. How is it that I as a gun owner am not accepting or applying responsibility? What I WONT do is accept responsibility for others actions...just as you shouldn’t accept responsibility or be punished if your neighbor goes out and gets caught driving drunk.
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What a foolish statement...

So as long as you can drive 100 miles per hour no one should stop you- you can't be held responsible for those who can't and kill other people on the highway.

To use your drunk driving example- why should they stop you and arrest you for drinking if you can drive home, just because your neighbor rammed a bus load of kids after drinking all morning... :doh

Grab a pillow.... :peace
 
VanceMack said:
Make sure you bring a comfy cushion to sit on. Seriously...what is there to figure out? The vast majority of violent crime does not involve assault rifles. It doesn’t involve background checks. It doesn’t involve law abiding citizens and gun ownership. The vast majority of violent crime involves inner city violence. Whoever those ‘rational citizens’ are should start there. Unless they don’t really give a **** about violent crime and gun deaths and are, at the end of the day, just committed to an anti-gun cause.
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The old point to a different problem and ignore the one under discussion.... :roll:

I don't believe I said a thing about universal background checks will stop intercity/drug gang crime.

Starting there would be beefing up the ATF auditing arm so FFLs are inspected more than once a decade and can't be followed up, no matter how severe the infractions, without a court order. Starting there would be fines/charges for those who leave firearms unsecured in their homes for burglars to steal. I'm always amazed at the number of weapons found at drug dealer houses, in stash houses of 'professional' burglars- and I don't live in a big city...

Perhaps taking the massive profit out of drug/'gun' running.... :confused:

Sad to say but more people are up in arms (forgive me) about mass murder of THEIR children, neighbors are slaughtered at the nearby mall, or at their local source of cheap Chinese consumer goods....

Ya know the old 'don't care about those 'urban' folks but DAYHAM not in my Walmart'!!!! :peace
 
notquiteright said:
What a foolish statement...

So as long as you can drive 100 miles per hour no one should stop you- you can't be held responsible for those who can't and kill other people on the highway.

To use your drunk driving example- why should they stop you and arrest you for drinking if you can drive home, just because your neighbor rammed a bus load of kids after drinking all morning... :doh

Grab a pillow.... :peace
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You like others for some reason feel the need to blather and bleat and say absolutely nothing. Worse...then you go out of your way to make the most idiotic comparisons. Why is that?

Who suggests gun owners should not be punished for doing something illegal, ala drunk driving? Seriously...why DO you constantly make such stupid statements?


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notquiteright said:
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Sad to say but more people are up in arms (forgive me) about mass murder of THEIR children, neighbors are slaughtered at the nearby mall, or at their local source of cheap Chinese consumer
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Of COURSE you don’t give a **** about the 10000 dead bodies every year. They are for the most part, black Americans...so why would you care about them? Of COURSE your sole focus is ‘mass shootings’....an always tragic event that has occurred 110 times in 37 years.

Because really...it isn’t about the mass shootings or children...it’s about you and others using the occasionally occurring event to promote your cause.


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VanceMack said:
Of COURSE you don’t give a **** about the 10000 dead bodies every year. They are for the most part, black Americans...so why would you care about them? Of COURSE your sole focus is ‘mass shootings’....an always tragic event that has occurred 110 times in 37 years.

Because really...it isn’t about the mass shootings or children...it’s about you and others using the occasionally occurring event to promote your cause.


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I think most people would agree the 'cause' is reducing your appalling statistics. Why is nobody doing anything except mutter platitudes and express scripted outrage until the next, inevitable, tragedy?
 
VanceMack said:
You like others for some reason feel the need to blather and bleat and say absolutely nothing. Worse...then you go out of your way to make the most idiotic comparisons. Why is that? Who suggests gun owners should not be punished for doing something illegal, ala drunk driving? Seriously...why DO you constantly make such stupid statements?
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Talk about bleating... YOU brought ignorant comparisons into this.... :roll:

Why have speed limits??? If someone causes an accident due to speeding then charge them with a crime, not all the other GAWD fearin' drivers who can do 100 and not hurt anyone.... :)

Why should drinking and driving be illegal??? To use the 'gun' ranter 'logic' only the drivers who cause accidents should be charged with a crime...

Same with texting and driving, home drug use, watching the 700 Club... :peace
 
VanceMack said:
Of COURSE you don’t give a **** about the 10000 dead bodies every year. They are for the most part, black Americans...so why would you care about them? Of COURSE your sole focus is ‘mass shootings’....an always tragic event that has occurred 110 times in 37 years. Because really...it isn’t about the mass shootings or children...it’s about you and others using the occasionally occurring event to promote your cause.
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More blather and bleating typical of a 'gun' rubber....

NO WHERE did I say what I do and don't give a **** about.... :roll:

But we are talking about mass shootings, try and focus and not foam so much. Like it or not citizens of all stripes, creeds, and locales are extremely worried about some non urban, heavily armed extremist who is going out to kill as many innocent people as they can in a senseless, often race/religion hate filled murderous act, not in the urban areas where many to include you could care less who kills who for a dime bag, but rather where these people work, shop, eat, pray... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
More blather and bleating typical of a 'gun' rubber....

NO WHERE did I say what I do and don't give a **** about.... :roll:

But we are talking about mass shootings, try and focus and not foam so much. Like it or not citizens of all stripes, creeds, and locales are extremely worried about some non urban, heavily armed extremist who is going out to kill as many innocent people as they can in a senseless, often race/religion hate filled murderous act, not in the urban areas where many to include you could care less who kills who for a dime bag, but rather where these people work, shop, eat, pray... :peace
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Rather comical that you ignore the 10,000 dead bodies every year to focus on the comparative handful...and then focus solely on ridiculous laws that don’t target even the mass shooters. Because you aren’t any more interested in the victims of mass shootings than you are the 3 year old child killed in a drive by.

Guns. That is your cause. That is all you care about...banning guns. The dead...they are just props to you.


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VanceMack said:
You like others for some reason feel the need to blather and bleat and say absolutely nothing. Worse...then you go out of your way to make the most idiotic comparisons. Why is that? Who suggests gun owners should not be punished for doing something illegal, ala drunk driving? Seriously...why DO you constantly make such stupid statements?
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You foam up like you have something meaningful to say and then just fizzle... :roll:

The point is in the OTHER example you COMPLETELY ignore as well- speeding... why do you feel the need to ignore the parts you can't argue and concentrate on just one??? :confused:

The drinking example you can't seem to take in is an example of a limit set lower and lower without a vote of the people... Imagine the mag cap being set the same way... no vote of the people just a wonk someplace setting the limits???? How was that limit set? How was it lowered repeatedly????

How many drive after a drink or two that a few years ago would be under the legal limit but now is illegal????

Try to quit whining about others doing what you love to do, blather and ignore a complete thought. You do know what a complete thought is don't you??? :peace
 
VanceMack said:
Rather comical that you ignore the 10,000 dead bodies every year to focus on the comparative handful...and then focus solely on ridiculous laws that don’t target even the mass shooters. Because you aren’t any more interested in the victims of mass shootings than you are the 3 year old child killed in a drive by. Guns. That is your cause. That is all you care about...banning guns. The dead...they are just props to you.
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Rather pathetic of you to try and deflect from the topic with an issue you don't give two shakes of a rat's ass about. NO WHERE do I say we should ignore urban killings. We are talking about a niche murder group that a majority of American want addressed...

No where do I ever say ban 'guns'... find where I did that... no rabid 'gun' rubbers project a strawman to argue with rather than the firearm owning vet who is posting here.

As far as props, you don't care how many innocent citizens get murdered- in urban or mall environments- as long as you don't know any of them....
 
snakestretcher said:
What's the objection to registering your weapon? You have to register your car, do you not?
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It’s always difficult to find a post in gun threads where posters aren’t trashing each other personally. This post is as close as I could find looking at a few pages.

There’s one point that no one is willing to discuss. When I started HS teaching in 1976, there were no lists given to us of students and the medications they take. Now, those lists are several pages long.

Young white males with good insurance have been overprescribed dangerous psychotropic ‘devil drugs’ for decades now. One of the latest, Vraylar, is known to cause permanent akathisia. These chemicals actually cause the very problems they’re supposed to solve, like suicide. Mixing with alcohol is extremely dangerous, since alcohol attaches to brain receptors and kicks these drugs into the brain at-large.

Our Veterans are well aware of this Big Pharma problem, since they were the first guinea peg clientele after Vietnam. Barbiturates, Amphetamines, Psychotropics, Glandulars, and of course the most dangerous Opioids.

With mental health professionals I know, I am begging them to be the change to not hook another teenage generation on these DEVIL DRUGS that are practically impossible to get off .
 
snakestretcher said:
What's the objection to registering your weapon? You have to register your car, do you not?
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How did England round up all the handguns after Dunblane. ? No one is calling for banning cars.
 
TurtleDude said:
How did England round up all the handguns after Dunblane. ? No one is calling for banning cars.
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I asked what your objection was, not what happened after Dunblane. The government already knows who you are, where you live, what financial transactions you have made, where you are at any given time (if you have a smart phone). So, guns, what's the problem with the government knowing what you have?
 
notquiteright said:
Rather pathetic of you to try and deflect from the topic with an issue you don't give two shakes of a rat's ass about. NO WHERE do I say we should ignore urban killings. We are talking about a niche murder group that a majority of American want addressed...

No where do I ever say ban 'guns'... find where I did that... no rabid 'gun' rubbers project a strawman to argue with rather than the firearm owning vet who is posting here.

As far as props, you don't care how many innocent citizens get murdered- in urban or mall environments- as long as you don't know any of them....
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:lamo

Your pathetic poutrage shows just how right I am and worse...how much you know I’m right that all you care about is using dead children as a prop to promote your sick cause.


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snakestretcher said:
I asked what your objection was, not what happened after Dunblane. The government already knows who you are, where you live, what financial transactions you have made, where you are at any given time (if you have a smart phone). So, guns, what's the problem with the government knowing what you have?
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Having represented the DEA, ATF, FBI, SS, USMS, IRS-CID, I know that these agencies have no idea how many guns most of Americans have. And I like keeping it that way.
 
VanceMack said:
Your pathetic poutrage shows just how right I am and worse...how much you know I’m right that all you care about is using dead children as a prop to promote your sick cause.
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Got to love it when 'gun' rubbers fling **** to run away.... :roll:

I never claimed a cause- YOU try to paint everyone who disagrees with you as a 'gun' grabber, I'm a firearm owner, wounded vet, rancher, eat vegetables kinda guy... :)

You have no counter for comparing firearm ownership to speed limit laws, or for the matter the constant arbitrary limits on alcohol consumption. Why not treat drinking like firearms- only if there is injury or death do we enforce penalties- why punish good drivers who can handle high speeds because some idiots can't???

Face it- your childish tantrums are highly selective- you could giva**** about dead 'urban' folks, and 'public safety' restrictions you like....

Time to wise up.... :peace
 
snakestretcher said:
But why? What's the concern?
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because the democrat party is filled with scumbags who want to ban guns and harass gun owners with all sorts of requirements. On top of that , the federal government doesn't have the constitutional power to do so
 
VanceMack said:
:lamo

Your pathetic poutrage shows just how right I am and worse...how much you know I’m right that all you care about is using dead children as a prop to promote your sick cause.


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We should ignore dead children because, what, it's embarrassing? The more these senseless killings are publicised, and the more grief gun-fetishists get as a result, the happier I will be.
 
TurtleDude said:
because the democrat party is filled with scumbags who want to ban guns and harass gun owners with all sorts of requirements. On top of that , the federal government doesn't have the constitutional power to do so
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Goo, let the harassment begin. Maybe one day America will wise up, realise it isn't 1776 any longer, and join the rest of the civilised nations who banned the useless things.
 
snakestretcher said:
We should ignore dead children because, what, it's embarrassing? The more these senseless killings are publicised, and the more grief gun-fetishists get as a result, the happier I will be.
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this shows the reason why I have no use for the anti gun movement-especially foreigners who want to intrude upon our rights. You have admitted you are gleeful over dead children because those incidents will cause honest gun owners to be blamed. So using your own admissions, it is obvious you really don't want laws that will actually stop such killings (and thus limit the incidents you can use to harass gun owners), rather you want laws that cause gun owners more grief but will allow the massacres to continue. Calling gun advocates gun fetishists prove that your position is not based on one of public safety, but rather a cultural loathing of those of us who don't buy into your nanny state/disarmed subjects dreams.

Oh and btw, when you ask people like us, why we don't agree to crap like registration of firearms (that you support) I look at your childish insults of gun owners and I immediately know that iF you want a law-its because you think it will cause gun owners grief.
 
snakestretcher said:
Goo, let the harassment begin. Maybe one day America will wise up, realise it isn't 1776 any longer, and join the rest of the civilised nations who banned the useless things.
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If your police have them, they clearly aren't useless. How about you live in your nanny state where everything you do is recorded by spy cameras and your own rulers don't find you mature enough to own guns, and we here will live as free citizens, rather than wetting our drawers over someone next door owning a pistol
 
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