• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

End Game for Trump: It Ends Badly for him

Really?

5dcdea9f5c62f8beda6b3e3af8116f3270136262.png


List of executive actions by Donald Trump - Wikipedia


On term limit's, even the Federalist Society seems to like the idea....

Debate over term limits for Supreme Court gains new life | TheHill

I think coal will still be part of the energy package but we won't be as dependent on it as we once were. Wind and solar will eventually edge it out

It's still too early to tell if Trump will get another four years...but if he does, there will be no peace, on that I can assure you.

What is the content of these orders?

I'm aware of the ones that add asset forfeiture to cases like Epstein, ones that call for eliminating 2 laws for each new one signed, and those in defense of the US, oh and the covfefe act.

which are the ones of concern?
 
I think that no matter who wins the dem nomination...there is enough momentum and disgust to vote for anyone but Trump...and that's where I'm at.
I think you need to get out more. Most of the country is sick and tired of the constant attacks on Trump. Disgust is as likely to be at the Democrats or the media, but not at Trump. He never plays the victim--except for theatric affect--but he gets sympathy for the constant barrage of over-the-top criticism. That's not from Republicans. They are pissed about it.

Democrats invested so much of their future in Mueller that they are disillusioned. While they may hate Trump, it isn't the burning thing it was in 2018. There is no leadership, no message that a sane person can defend, no candidate worth betting the rent on. They played the Mueller card and it was trumped. They played the race card, but it was already overused. They are trying the white supremacy card, but it is not working either. In 2016 they were mostly unified behind a bad candidate against a newbie. In 2020 they are disillusion, disheartened, and fragmented and have no better candidate against a seasoned veteran. They will get crushed.
 
What is the content of these orders?

I'm aware of the ones that add asset forfeiture to cases like Epstein, ones that call for eliminating 2 laws for each new one signed, and those in defense of the US, oh and the covfefe act.

which are the ones of concern?

Not sure why you're asking because I posted a link with a list of all his EO's and what they were for.
 
Not sure why you're asking because I posted a link with a list of all his EO's and what they were for.

Yes, but which ones are the concern?

Or is it just the quantity?
 
I think that no matter who wins the dem nomination...there is enough momentum and disgust to vote for anyone but Trump...and that's where I'm at.

Momentum? What momentum? Mueller sucked all the momentum out. Seriously, did you watch that?

That was the big hope and it cratered biggly.
 
Yes, but which ones are the concern?

Or is it just the quantity?

My point was that Trump hasn't passed much legislation and most his actions have been through EOs...which can be undone by another president. So yeah, I guess you could say 'the quantity'.
 
I think you need to get out more. Most of the country is sick and tired of the constant attacks on Trump. Disgust is as likely to be at the Democrats or the media, but not at Trump. He never plays the victim--except for theatric affect--but he gets sympathy for the constant barrage of over-the-top criticism. That's not from Republicans. They are pissed about it.

Democrats invested so much of their future in Mueller that they are disillusioned. While they may hate Trump, it isn't the burning thing it was in 2018. There is no leadership, no message that a sane person can defend, no candidate worth betting the rent on. They played the Mueller card and it was trumped. They played the race card, but it was already overused. They are trying the white supremacy card, but it is not working either. In 2016 they were mostly unified behind a bad candidate against a newbie. In 2020 they are disillusion, disheartened, and fragmented and have no better candidate against a seasoned veteran. They will get crushed.
I think you need to stop with the stupid ad homs.

Most of the country are sick and tired of Trump and it shows in the polls.

Fox News poll: Trump disapproval rises to near record | TheHill

The Mueller report didn't exonerate Trump. In fact, as soon as he's out of office he could go to prison.
 
Trump is hoping he'll win because he knows if he doesn't he could go to prison. So I think the momentum is still there and the calls for an impeachment are growing. House Dem impeachment support gains new momentum - POLITICO
Trump does not have to hope he wins because the House will not support a bill on impeachment, no matter what some Representatives think. The votes are not there in the House, much less the Senate.

Spin all the fantasies you want, but recognize that they are fantasies.
 
I think you need to stop with the stupid ad homs. Most of the country are sick and tired of Trump and it shows in the polls. Fox News poll: Trump disapproval rises to near record | TheHill
The Mueller report didn't exonerate Trump. In fact, as soon as he's out of office he could go to prison.
Fine. Don't try to teach polls to a pollster. You are engaging in wishful thinking. I won't stop you.

Look me up on Nov 4, 2020. We can talk then.
 
Trump does not have to hope he wins because the House will not support a bill on impeachment, no matter what some Representatives think. The votes are not there in the House, much less the Senate.

Spin all the fantasies you want, but recognize that they are fantasies.

That doesn't seem to have stopped the House from conducting an impeachment investigation.

House has already opened impeachment proceedings against Trump
 
Last edited:
Fine. Don't try to teach polls to a pollster. You are engaging in wishful thinking. I won't stop you.

Look me up on Nov 4, 2020. We can talk then.

Are you a pollster? And here I thought you would appreciate that it was a Fox News poll.
 
Well written Op/ed:

Everyone will eventually turn on Trump. Even Steve Doocy.

It's too soon to say when Donald Trump's presidency will end, but it's not too soon to say how it will end. It will end in disgrace. And when it does, Trump's defenders will turn on him. Some already have.

Trump's sycophants are as loyal as he is — which is to say, not at all. In The Art of the Deal, Trump counted Roy Cohn as a friend, calling him "a truly loyal guy." After Cohn contracted AIDS, Trump "dropped him like a hot potato," according to Susan Bell, Cohn's longtime secretary

The people who are loyal to Trump are loyal not because they like him as a person but because they have something to gain from him. In an interview with The New York Times, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) admitted that he embraced Trump "to try to be relevant." So far, his plan has worked superbly — Graham has a recurring slot on Hannity. Once Trump is gone, however, Graham will no longer need the man he once dismissed as "the world's biggest jackass." He will find someone else to latch onto, and he will forget about Trump just as he forgot about John McCain.

.......

Trump's post-presidency will be sadder and more pathetic than his presidency. His presidential library will be neither presidential nor a library. His memoir, if someone writes one for him, will be dreadful — ghostwritten, poorly written, replete with falsehoods and errors, and bereft of insights and useful information. His presidential papers will contain such statements as "Horseface"; "trade wars are good, and easy to win"; "a very stable genius"; and "your favorite President, me!" No mainstream public figure will want to be associated with his legacy.

.......

After resigning in disgrace, Richard Nixon partially rehabilitated himself. He wrote a 1,120-page memoir and a succession of books about foreign policy. He counseled presidents and appeared on serious news programs to opine on world events. Time columnist Hugh Sidey, who had chided Nixon during Watergate, called him a "strategic genius." President Clinton gave Nixon a fawning eulogy.

Jimmy Carter is widely regarded as having been a better ex-president than a president. His approval rating rose from 31 percent in 1980 to 64 percent in 2009, thanks largely to his humanitarian work. According to The Washington Post, he "helped renovate 4,300 homes in 14 countries for Habitat for Humanity." Trump, on the other hand, reportedly appropriated money meant for a children's cancer charity.

............

After Trump leaves office and has fewer things to do, people will have fewer reasons to listen to him. Ex-President Trump will call Fox & Friends every morning, but they will ignore him. Instead of ranting on air, he will leave voicemails for Steve Doocy's assistant's intern.


====================

Let's mark this one down. Trump's presidency will end with a whimper, if not in disgrace. And when that happens, virtually every Trump acolyte (including those here on DP) will begin the process of distancing themselves from the legacy of corruption, incompetence, immorality and shame that Trump will leave.

Already, we're seeing some of that from the Righties on this board. And it's only going to get worse.

Trump could never become president. He couldn't win a primary, couldn't win an election, and would be removed before even taking office. Even if that impossible of being elected president happened, he would be impeached and removed in the first 6 months - including because he had colluded with Russia to take over American voting machines with proof of this that would turn everyone against Trump. But then, from the start, everyone was against Trump.

100,000+ Democrat likes were given to messages mostly by the same Democrats posting those certain facts on this forum. At least those Democrats are consistent - consistently wrong. What is curious is that there is no point at which those Democrats posting this - over and over and over week, after month after year - will ever recognize how much they look like ridiculous juvenile tantrum throwing anti-social spoiled brats. - :lamo
 
I would imagine that without the justice department behind him, his goose is cooked. Everyone is going to want to pick his bones.

there sure is a lot of meat on those bones!
 
If he explicitly backed the protesters, it might "morally commit" the US to some kind of support or intervention, which in this case is tantamount to backing the 100%-guaranteed-to-lose side.

That is terrible. You think it's too much trouble to even defend democracy - just surrender to its being destroyed. Maybe we should even cheer China crushing it! You want the US to stand for nothing. And you're not representing the situation accurately, either: google 'one state, two systems 2047'.

I personally think the US has backed enough lost causes this decade--Libya, Crimea, Yemen, rebels in Syria, Juan Guaido in Venezuela--without adding to the list. The Chinese are even mocking you for it. You're five for five so far: either the movement you back fails miserably or else succeeds and completely destroys the nation it's meant to help. The US media can pave over reality with flags and propaganda but it's not as if the rest of the world hasn't noticed.

You make it explicit here - what matters is 'guessing who will win and supporting them', not what's right and democratic. Not to overuse Hitler, but a lot of Americans used the same logic why we should welcome him and get along. Most opposed fighting Hitler. Meanwhile principled Americans were going off to get killed volunteering to help Republicans in Spain fight Franco, tragically.

Your examples look at nothing but 'who won'. And some are not examples of the US doing the right thing, which is what I'm talking about. Yemen is pure 'let the powerful massacre the weak for corrupt reasons'. We could do better in Venezuela ending our economic war with sanctions, than trying to install a US puppet (again).

We're right to be on the side of Crimea and Ukraine. There are heroic people in Ukraine wanting freedom from Putin facing an uphill battle. Hell, go look up the wonderful music of the group Dhaka Brakha", and then realize how passionately they speak for freedom as Ukranians. They're on the right side.

I know people who defend the Tiananmen Square massacre on the basis of 'the democracy protesters were creating unrest'. We can't always militarily intervene to force democracy everywhere, but we can prefer democracy instead of the Republican opposition we have to democracy everywhere unless it benefits them.

The lesson of Vietnam, for example, was not that we wrongly supported democracy - we did the opposite. We refused to allow democracy, and forced a puppet, claiming by doing so we were defending democracy. The lack of democracy in Iran, for example, is directly caused by our preventing democracy there, installing a tyrant. Same with Guatemala's 60 years of problems, it's a long list. We should push for democracy.

It's Putin's goal to undermine democracy in general - to weaken the global alliances to defend it, an effort which trump has become his accomplice on, attacking our allies. Even in his hand-selected enemy Iran, you don't hear him say a lot abut supporting democracy there, just about wanting to threaten the regime and end the global deal on their nuclear program.

Now Putin's efforts are directly corrupting our democracy. Russia picked our president. In response, a large majority of both parties wanted to sanction Russia - but Mitch McConnell was approached with a bribe, a $200 million factory in a poor part of Kentucky that will help him get re-elected, and he single-handedly ended the US sanctions, serving Putin. Now the same oligarch has contacted eight governors saying he wants to build factories in their states.

The experts explain that this is how Russia does things, looking for ways to put money somewhere that gives them power; that in weaker states, it can reach the point of an effective takeover of the state. So far we're unable to even stand up to this McConnell effort - even Kentucky Democrats often support the deal, unable to politically oppose something that helps the poor in their state. Russia has made clear if the US looks at sanctions again, the factory can be cancelled or closed; it's pure bribery and it's working. Nevermind the huge benefit to them for the cheap price of $200 million, and the principles in defending our country and democracy and right to choose our president a large majority in Congress support, against an attack Mueller clearly investigated and documented.

Democracy isn't 'free'. The natural course is always for someone to benefit by not having democracy, by having power over the public and oppressing them. The US needs to decide whether it still supports democracy or not. I've long said that as we allow our own democracy to be corrupted so the government doesn't serve the people, it weakens our support for democracy, and I think we're seeing that.
 
Most middle aged conservative white guys say the same thing. Hell, most of you don't really understand what racism is, or what it looks like. And if you haven't met a white supremacist in your 62 years, you're proof of that. In reality, it's easy to ignore (or "not notice") something that doesn't affect you. But I've seen plenty. And some of the worst are the ones who think like you...because they enable it (or they endorse it, but don't have the stones to say so publicly).



Great example.

And how do you know it's such a small faction? Surely, you understand that your personal experiences...and your personal BIASES...represent but a "very small faction" of the American Experience, don't you?

And "political tool"??? Come on, now.:lamo

My great grandfather was in the KKK. Can't say he was a white supremacist cause I didn't know him well but, I know what real racism is.

You can't call everyone who disagrees with you a racist and expect it to not be seen as political.

BTW: Did you call out Obama when he was being a race monger?
 
That doesn't seem to have stopped the House from conducting an impeachment investigation. House has already opened impeachment proceedings against Trump
Over Pelosi's objections. They don't have close to enough votes to pass the House. Little things like the truth don't matter to some people, Jerry Nadler in this case.

Are you a pollster? And here I thought you would appreciate that it was a Fox News poll.

I have a degree in Mathematics. I don't care who does a poll. I do care about interpreting the numbers correctly.
 
Trump could never become president. He couldn't win a primary, couldn't win an election, and would be removed before even taking office. Even if that impossible of being elected president happened, he would be impeached and removed in the first 6 months - including because he had colluded with Russia to take over American voting machines with proof of this that would turn everyone against Trump. But then, from the start, everyone was against Trump.

100,000+ Democrat likes were given to messages mostly by the same Democrats posting those certain facts on this forum. At least those Democrats are consistent - consistently wrong. What is curious is that there is no point at which those Democrats posting this - over and over and over week, after month after year - will ever recognize how much they look like ridiculous juvenile tantrum throwing anti-social spoiled brats. - :lamo

Surely, you mean socialist brats.
 
Is this guy some kind of self proclaimed prophet? roflmao. I think he is just revealing his wet dream brought on by his Trump mania. Trump will more likely be touted as the POTUS who destroyed the Democratic Party. The DEMS are on their way out and political correctness is being relegated to the ash heap of history. I'm more interested in the party which is going to replace the DNC. Libertarians perhaps?

Imagine the Dumbs thinking they can win on a platform of 90% tax rates, socialized healthcare industry, socialized education, free food and services, open borders, eradication of the rule of law and freedom of speech, political correctness and financial collapse.

Oh I left out 96 Trillion dollars to combat make-believe Global Warming. lol. An amount literally greater than our ability to fund with 100% of GDP. LMAO.

Wow, you've definitely got us beat in the wet dream fantasy department. Congrats!:lamo
 
My point was that Trump hasn't passed much legislation and most his actions have been through EOs...which can be undone by another president. So yeah, I guess you could say 'the quantity'.

When you consider how many are / were never trump and would reject anything he said, I'm not sure he had any other option.
 
My great grandfather was in the KKK. Can't say he was a white supremacist cause I didn't know him well but, I know what real racism is.

As I recently posted, 'if you aren't wearing a white hood and lynching someone you're not a racist. And if you are wearing a white hood and lynching someone, maybe you are. But let's hear your reasons.'

You can't call everyone who disagrees with you a racist and expect it to not be seen as political.

Straw man talking point from the Republican manual - the word racist has no meaning, it's thrown around for every disagreement on anything.?
 
When you consider how many are / were never trump and would reject anything he said, I'm not sure he had any other option.

Trumpers were so heartily scammed to own the libs by con man Don that their new rallying cry will soon be "Ha ha, lost my house to own the libs!"

Farmers are already seeing the signs of foreclosure
Recession cometh
Houses are next
 
That is terrible. You think it's too much trouble to even defend democracy - just surrender to its being destroyed. Maybe we should even cheer China crushing it! You want the US to stand for nothing. And you're not representing the situation accurately, either: google 'one state, two systems 2047'.
I'm emphasizing that the US isn't kingmaking, world-ruling hegemony it was back at the height of its power in the 1970's and 80's. Whether or not "defending democracy" in Hong Kong is a noble objective, only a fool goes into battle without counting the costs first, and only a fool would conclude the US going toe-to-toe with Beijing over Hong Kong will ultimately benefit the people of Hong Kong or America. Either America will "cut and run" when opposition from Beijing becomes too harsh, or--the more worrisome outcome--tensions will escalate to the point of actual military conflict between China and the US, and the only way that ends is with WWIII.

Anyone who thinks China will back down from a military confrontation with the US in order to preserve peace and economic cooperation does not understand China, the PPoC, or the attitude of the Chinese people towards the US and Hong Kong. Hence unless you feel so strongly about "defending democracy" in Hong Kong that you're willing to wage all-out 21st Century world war for it, stay the hell out. You've done absolutely no one any favours by backing failed political movements in the past decade, and you've wasted trillions of dollars in the process. Your days of tilting at windmills are over.

As for "defending democracy", what the US media doesn't tell you is that China is demanding extradition of Hong Kong citizens in large part because foreign (usually Western-backed) agitators have come into Beijing preaching "Down with communism.", "Down with the PPoC.", "Down with Beijing."--fomenting rebellion and sedition--and the Hong Kong courts can't or won't rein them in.

If China started sending agitators to Puerto Rico to stir up animosity towards the US, preaching sedition, and the Puerto Rican courts couldn't suppress it, the US would be foolish to not do exactly as the Chinese are doing: demanding the agitators be tried in mainland American courts. Preaching sedition is a form of treason. It's not a charge one deals with lightly. The West can cluck their tongues at China all they want, China isn't on a bullet train to cultural suicide like the West, they're not going to permit unrest to take root, and they don't care how Western media portrays them.

You make it explicit here - what matters is 'guessing who will win and supporting them', not what's right and democratic.
I never said the US should support China. I'm saying you should mind your own business rather than making things worse for once.
 
Not to overuse Hitler, but a lot of Americans used the same logic why we should welcome him and get along. Most opposed fighting Hitler. Meanwhile principled Americans were going off to get killed volunteering to help Republicans in Spain fight Franco, tragically.
Europe, the British Commonwealth, and (eventually) the US tolerated Hitler to the point where it became clear the only thing that would stop him was a world war. The Allied nations counted the costs of that war, found it to be justifiable, and fought it, incurring those heavy costs.

If you believe the US backing "defending democracy" in Hong Kong is worth fighting a world war over, then while I disagree with you, I can at least appreciate you understand the stakes. If it isn't worth this to you, then your backing the protesters will fail, it will make life worse for Hong Kong citizens, and will cost you heavily. If you proceed anyway under the quixotic belief that none of this matters when your objective is noble, you're a fool.

We're right to be on the side of Crimea and Ukraine. There are heroic people in Ukraine wanting freedom from Putin facing an uphill battle. Hell, go look up the wonderful music of the group Dhaka Brakha", and then realize how passionately they speak for freedom as Ukranians. They're on the right side.
Says who? The US media? Soldiers in the Ukrainian army? The Ukrainian government?

We could get into pages of discussion on Crimea and who's at fault. Most Americans don't know a tenth of the story there because of the US newsmedia. I will say the idea that Pres. Putin's goal is "to undermine democracy in general" is pure, unadulterated BS. Pres. Putin's goals are to advance Russian interests, defend Russian interests, and outside of these two priorities, the man couldn't care less about foreign democracy. At least 50% of the measures he takes are a direct response to foreign aggression that most Americans have no clue about. The US media makes him out like a supervillain bent on destroying the West for no reason, which is a lie. And whether it's through NATO, or the IMF, or arming rebels, or threatening Russian national interests, or crippling Russian economic interests, it's almost always Uncle Sam and War Inc. pulling the strings at the top.

"Oh, but he just wants to undermine democracy." Beam me up. Why don't you ask the people of Crimea what they think of Russia, the Ukraine, and NATO?

Now Putin's efforts are directly corrupting our democracy.
While I agree, the list of things corrupting your democracy could fill a textbook, and Russian influence isn't anywhere near the top of the list. American society is rotting from the inside out, the same as Europe and the British Commonwealth. All the more reason why the Chinese are scared to death of protestors "defending democracy" in Hong Kong. Chairman Xi may be an iron-fisted dictator, but he's no fool. He sees the writing on the wall.
 
Straw man talking point from the Republican manual - the word racist has no meaning, it's thrown around for every disagreement on anything.?

Repetitious howling parrots on the Left killed the word.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom