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This Is Medicare For All

Moderate Right said:
I want to tackle healthcare from the bottom up instead of the top down. We need to work with health insurance companies, providers, and Big Pharma in working to reduce THEIR costs. Treating them like they are the enemy of the people is the wrong approach and total government control is the wrong approach. What we do now is try to stiff payments to everyone in order to control costs.

Why does college cost so much to be a doctor?

Why do drugs cost so much? - hint it is not because Big Pharma is greedy.

Why does it cost so much to run a hospital or other facility?

Why does that MRI machine and other medical equipment cost so much?

Why does mal practice insurance cost so much?


Etc Etc
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All good questions that will run into people's profit margins, and that's where the push back and obfuscation come in where those who ask those questions get asked why they hate capitalism and America.
 
Ikari said:
It's not a complete solution, there are many problems that face the healthcare industry and have inflated prices. It's not to say that some form of universal healthcare is completely out or cannot be beneficial overall. It can, most of the advanced Western Nations have some form of universal healthcare with better access to and lower costs for healthcare than the US currently has. Also, not all forms of universal healthcare are single payer as something like Medicare for All would be.

Currently one of the largest drivers of bankruptcy is medical costs, so we obviously have some troubles with that. America pays more and has less access to healthcare than other modern Western nations. I think that those that are spouting Medicare for All are a bit naive in that call given the complexities of the system. But it doesn't mean that universal healthcare cannot be beneficial overall nor that we cannot also strive to fix some of the fundamental issues with our healthcare system.
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I would disagree that other countries have "better access". I don't think longer wait times is better access and often times when you need to to see the doctor ASAP they can't see you and you are told to go to the emergency room because there isn't better access.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
They want complete federal government control over the US medical care industry (aka Socialism) and, as of yet, lack that power.
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I still don't understand. The left want the better off to pay for the poorer's medical care and that is exactly what we do. Often times the left complain about wanting something they already have and that goes beyond healthcare. They want the rich to pay most of the federal income taxes while letting the poor off the hook and yet the rich do pay most of the federal income tax while around 50% of America pays zero. They seem to like to complain about the things they already have.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The point is that is happening without total federal government control - why do we need total federal government control of 18% of GDP to get what (you say?) we have now? What I am missing is the urgent reason (excuse?) for demanding M4A?
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Because what we have now is a mess.. An uninsured person goes to the hospital... Who pays? He/She gets heart procedure and would cost a person with insurance $40,000.. But the uninsured person gets changed $25,000 because the hospital and doctors KNOW he can't pay the $40,000.. So who pays for the $15k difference? The next guy with insurance and the taxpayers, that's who. And who pays for the $25k bill? Maybe the patient pays some, but the rest comes from the taxpayers or sold to a collection agency for 10 cents on a dollar.

We have socialized medicine now. I just want something that's not as chaotic as we have now, something a little more structured. For all of ACA faults, if someone with ACA goes to the hospital they and the doctors know who to charge and who will be paying..

People without HI? It's a mess.
 
Moderate Right said:
I still don't understand. The left want the better off to pay for the poorer's medical care and that is exactly what we do. Often times the left complain about wanting something they already have and that goes beyond healthcare. They want the rich to pay most of the federal income taxes while letting the poor off the hook and yet the rich do pay most of the federal income tax while around 50% of America pays zero. They seem to like to complain about the things they already have.
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Nope, currently all of those who use and pay for medical care services (regardless of their incomes) now pay for those subsidies. The left wants that payment burden to shift to "the rich" to a much greater extent (exclusively, if possible?) than simply what "the rich" actually use (and pay for) in medical care services.
 
ElChupacabra said:
All good questions that will run into people's profit margins, and that's where the push back and obfuscation come in where those who ask those questions get asked why they hate capitalism and America.
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What we need to do is answer these questions and find a solution to these questions by working with the insurers, providers, and drug companies to help them control their costs. Letting government control everything by simply stiffing everyone in payments is not the solution. Treating these places as if they were the enemy is not the solution. We need to work from the roots up instead of the top down. When you cut a weed off at the top it just grows right back.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, currently all of those who use and pay for medical care services (regardless of their incomes) now pay for those subsidies. The left wants that payment burden to shift to "the rich" to a much greater extent (exclusively, if possible?) than simply what "the rich" actually use (and pay for) in medical care services.
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The poor get free medical care because the law won't let them be turned away from care and if they can't pay for it then everyone else does, but not them. Those who are better off pay for it, exactly what the left wants. That's supposedly what Obamacare is all about and that is the law of the land, not changed by Republicans. Subsidies cover both premiums and out of pocket costs for the very poor. And yet the left complain about having exactly what they wanted. Their real problem is they are jealous of the rich and will do anything to knock the rich down.
 
Moderate Right said:
This is what you guys want - MFA and it caused these people to do this because they were so deep in debt with medical bills. This is what you want for the entire country.
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No. I want a first world single payer system, which will work like all of the other ones.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Because what we have now is a mess.. An uninsured person goes to the hospital... Who pays? He/She gets heart procedure and would cost a person with insurance $40,000.. But the uninsured person gets changed $25,000 because the hospital and doctors KNOW he can't pay the $40,000.. So who pays for the $15k difference? The next guy with insurance and the taxpayers, that's who. And who pays for the $25k bill? Maybe the patient pays some, but the rest comes from the taxpayers or sold to a collection agency for 10 cents on a dollar.

We have socialized medicine now. I just want something that's not as chaotic as we have now, something a little more structured. For all of ACA faults, if someone with ACA goes to the hospital they and the doctors know who to charge and who will be paying..

People without HI? It's a mess.
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Something 'structured' such as everyone gets "free" medical care on demand and only "the rich" pay additional taxes to the government who, in return, pay the medical care providers?
 
Helix said:
No. I want a first world single payer system, which will work like all of the other ones.
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There is no first world single payer system. All single payer systems are third world and I don't want third world healthcare. I have had good health insurance through my employers my whole entire life, and many of those years I was dirt poor.
 
Moderate Right said:
What we need to do is answer these questions and find a solution to these questions by working with the insurers, providers, and drug companies to help them control their costs. Letting government control everything by simply stiffing everyone in payments is not the solution.
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Which is exactly what’s happening under the ACA. Change the underlying incentives so that it’s in the providers’ and insurers’ interest to figure how to get costs under control. (Pharma is a missing piece and needs to be addressed differently, separately.) The government and other stakeholders provide some opportunities for learning collaboratives and technical assistance as providers work on figuring cost containment out under the new incentive structures and business models.

And the GOP is in court trying to reverse a decade of work on this.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Stop pretending that government supplied (or subsidized) insurance is "affordable". The current "choice" of Medicare part B is take it and pay the fixed monthly premiums or forfeit your Social Security retirement benefits.
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All I know is that the program helps me and helped my parents. Reagan said it would make us slaves — didn’t happen. If it is bad and shouldn’t continue or expand in its current form, we should study what other countries do and pick the best, avoiding the worst. That we go last among the more developed countries gives us an advantage if we wish to improve or change the 3-4 national health care systems we already have. Everyone seems to be on board with something, even if they support “repeal and replace.” That phrase says it all. Years after we are dead and gone, people will wonder what all the shouting was about
 
Moderate Right said:
There is no first world single payer system. All single payer systems are third world and I don't want third world healthcare. I have had good health insurance through my employers my whole entire life, and many of those years I was dirt poor.
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i live in real reality, so i support first world single payer. you may continue to craft an alternative reality if it keeps you feeling safe and angry. however, i don't do alternate reality, so it doesn't seem that we we have much to discuss.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Something 'structured' such as everyone gets "free" medical care on demand and only "the rich" pay additional taxes to the government who, in return, pay the medical care providers?
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I never said only the 'rich' or whoever should pay.. You're slipping back to the 'talking points'..

And I never said I was in favor of M4A, ACA, single payer whatever.. Because quite honestly I don't favor any 1 plan because I have no idea of the pros and cons of the different plans.

How about that? Someone on the Internet saying he has no idea about a topic? Seriously all I'm saying is something 'NEEDS' to be done. HC and HI will soon be out of reach for the Middle Class and Lower Classes. In 10 years when it comes to our economy HC costs maybe the wildcard.
 
Greenbeard said:
Which is exactly what’s happening under the ACA. Change the underlying incentives so that it’s in the providers’ and insurers’ interest to figure how to get costs under control. (Pharma is a missing piece and needs to be addressed differently, separately.) The government and other stakeholders provide some opportunities for learning collaboratives and technical assistance as providers work on figuring cost containment out under the new incentive structures and business models.

And the GOP is in court trying to reverse a decade of work on this.
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No, what we are doing now with Medicare/Medicaid is to say, "Screw you. This is what we're paying you. We don't care what your costs are."
 
Helix said:
i live in real reality, so i support first world single payer. you may continue to craft an alternative reality if it keeps you feeling safe and angry. however, i don't do alternate reality, so it doesn't seem that we we have much to discuss.
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I have lived decades with good insurance and good healthcare though my various employers, even when I was poor for many years. That is my reality. I don't want to give up what I have for worse healthcare. The left want to take everyone's health care away.
 
bongsaway said:
Imagine how good their quality of life must be. The top six are all countries that are freezing cold and the people are happy. I would happily exchange a higher tax rate for a better quality of life.
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my guess is that it would be less money out of pocket, as we wouldn't be buying jacked up for-profit insurance and paying much more for services than everyone else is.
 
Helix said:
my guess is that it would be less money out of pocket, as we wouldn't be buying jacked up for-profit insurance and paying much more for services than everyone else is.
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Of course it would but these are the democratic socialist countries that work for its citizens the right never ever mentions.

Profit is first in american health care, your health care is second.
 
Nickyjo said:
All I know is that the program helps me and helped my parents. Reagan said it would make us slaves — didn’t happen. If it is bad and shouldn’t continue or expand in its current form, we should study what other countries do and pick the best, avoiding the worst. That we go last among the more developed countries gives us an advantage if we wish to improve or change the 3-4 national health care systems we already have. Everyone seems to be on board with something, even if they support “repeal and replace.” That phrase says it all. Years after we are dead and gone, people will wonder what all the shouting was about
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I say let's go back to the idea of a "public option" - trying to come up with the perfect "forced public mandate" (one size fits all) is what is not working.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I never said only the 'rich' or whoever should pay.. You're slipping back to the 'talking points'..

And I never said I was in favor of M4A, ACA, single payer whatever.. Because quite honestly I don't favor any 1 plan because I have no idea of the pros and cons of the different plans.

How about that? Someone on the Internet saying he has no idea about a topic? Seriously all I'm saying is something 'NEEDS' to be done. HC and HI will soon be out of reach for the Middle Class and Lower Classes. In 10 years when it comes to our economy HC costs maybe the wildcard.
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OK, but in a thread (allegedly) about M4A you can understand why M4A might be considered to be the topic of discussion.
 
Moderate Right said:
No
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Yes! If you want a multi-stakeholder effort among payers, providers, and the government to fix the financial models underpinning health care delivery and figure out how to get costs under control, you're in luck, that's been underway for several years and has made critical strides. Write whichever GOP fools represent you and tell them to stop trying to scuttle it.
 
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