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Thread: This Is Medicare For All

  1. #251
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    Re: This Is Medicare For All

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    Spare me the talking points.
    Not talking points. Antifa's motives are nothing remotely approaching pure. They are violent anarchists.
    Democrats were for the border wall before they were against it!

  2. #252
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    Re: This Is Medicare For All

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    • Cover primary and preventive care, prescription drugs, dental and vision care, mental health and substance abuse treatment, as well as maternity, newborn and long-term care through a government-run plan
    • Let Americans see any doctor they want to with no deductibles or copays
    • Effectively end the private health insurance market

      linkypoo...


    Bring on your next lie conservative.
    Speaking of lies, Bernie Sanders is quite aware that what he is proposing would never pass and he is also quite aware that the nation would go bankrupt paying for it. Bernie is just hoping to stand out in the ultra alt left and draw as many primary votes as he can get. Then if he were to get the nomination, he would then tone his medicare for all fantasy down considerably.
    Democrats were for the border wall before they were against it!

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    Re: This Is Medicare For All

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Agreed. You are dead set on a Medicare for all type system. I am dead set against it as I know what the result would be. And it would not be the panacea that you think it would be. I respect that you want something better then the system that exists now. I do as well. Medicare for all simply would not get us there. And it would end up costing you more.
    i agree with the former, and definitely not the latter.

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    Re: This Is Medicare For All

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    Elderly couple found dead from murder-suicide after they couldn’t afford wife’s healthcare: ‘We will be in the front bedroom’


    I thought Medicare for all was supposed to be the answer. Apparently it isn't all it is cracked up to be.
    There will always be outliers. Additionally, mental health was obviously an issue. Ongoing medical issues in the elderly often leads to suicide, blaming Medicare in this case just means you're drinking the kool-aid.

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    Re: This Is Medicare For All

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    Elderly couple found dead from murder-suicide after they couldn’t afford wife’s healthcare: ‘We will be in the front bedroom’


    I thought Medicare for all was supposed to be the answer. Apparently it isn't all it is cracked up to be.
    Uh.

    You mean the Medicare for All that eliminates the point of payment expenses and affordability concerns this couple died over?

    The same Medicare for All plan that came about and is motivated precisely by these sorts of preventable tragedies?

    I'm honestly baffled by the sheer stupidity in citing this story as a retort of MFA.
    "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." -Alberto Brandolini

  6. #256
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    Re: This Is Medicare For All

    Quote Originally Posted by snakestretcher View Post
    The NHS is 'rationed' because successive conservative governments here have slashed funding for essential services, instead giving massive tax cuts to those who don't need them. Sound familiar? The private sector is doing fine with over 12% of our population using the expensive option.
    First, the so called massive US tax cuts ended up creating tax more tax revenue, not less. That cannot be denied. As for slashing funding for the NHS, I suppose you think all British governments since Churchill have been conservative? Conservatism in the UK is not really conservatism. It's leftwing-lite. And the amount of funding is not really the issue. The UK could triple the funding and the government would still ration healthcare to control costs. When the government runs the healthcare system and makes all of the decisions, bean counting comes into play when staffing doctors, hospitals and high tech diagnostic equipment. The same would occur here if the US were to make such an insanely stupid move to Medicare for all.
    Democrats were for the border wall before they were against it!

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    Re: This Is Medicare For All

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    First, the so called massive US tax cuts ended up creating tax more tax revenue, not less. That cannot be denied. As for slashing funding for the NHS, I suppose you think all British governments since Churchill have been conservative? Conservatism in the UK is not really conservatism. It's leftwing-lite. And the amount of funding is not really the issue. The UK could triple the funding and the government would still ration healthcare to control costs. When the government runs the healthcare system and makes all of the decisions, bean counting comes into play when staffing doctors, hospitals and high tech diagnostic equipment. The same would occur here if the US were to make such an insanely stupid move to Medicare for all.
    Relative to what, exactly? Certainly not relative to federal spending or the defict would have decreased.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #258
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    Re: This Is Medicare For All

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    That gets paid more here than he or she would in any country on earth. I work in IT. My salary is not twice as much as it would be anywhere else on earth. If it was, the the IT industry would have a very distorting effect on our economy.

    Let's say you have an individual market insurance premium of 14k a year for your family. Of that, about 800 dollars at the most is insurance industry profits. Where do you think the rest of that goes? It's providers. You have oncologists slowing down the rates of infusion just increase billing. You have plastic surgeons coming into ICU, doing a handful of facial stitches after trauma, and billing 20k for it. You got neurologists billing 5k for less than 5 minutes of their time glancing at a CT scan. You got an entire consulting industry that has cropped up in the last 20 years whose only purpose is to show providers how to increase their billing all the way to the legal line of fraud. My wife worked in insurance defense for nearly 20 years. She would pull records and billing all the time. You would not believe the kinds of things providers do when it comes to billing. If it were any other industry, we would call it fraud.

    No one is arguing that specialists and providers should not be paid well. Of course they should be, but when you got orthopedic surgeons bringing in better than 800k a year when they would be making 400k a year in any other modern developed nation, someone is paying for that, and its you and me.

    Everyone wants to blame insurers. I don't like insurance companies, but they are not the main problem here. People want to blame pharma, drugs are just 10% of over all health spending. Republicans push HSAs so you pay for your own routine care. I am all for HSAs, but routine care is only 7% of healthcare spending. Its nothing. That is why you can pay it out of an HSA.

    Fully half of all healthcare markets in this country are provider monopolies where one health system owns all the providers at all levels in that market. Insurers have no ability to even negotiate prices in those markets, the providers charge what they want. Now, I am not saying that all providers are out there gouging consumers. That isn't the case at all, but some are, and what are you going to do about it? You going to tell the cancer hospital, "No, I don't want to pay 80k a month for cancer treatment, just let me die a horrible death.". You going to tell the cardiologist "No, I don't want a 150k heart surgery, just me die.". Hell, you have severe trauma and spend better than 100k before you are even conscious. The normal laws of supply and demand do not work in such a system. It's not like going out and buying a car and forgoing the purchase if it is too expensive. If you need catastrophic or chronic care, which are the biggest drivers of high healthcare costs, the choice is either pay what the provider tells you and your insurer to pay, or die. That is why no one wants our system. No country on earth wants our healthcare system. Anyone else on earth could do it the way we do it here and no one wants to. There is a reason for that, and part of it is 800k a year anesthesiologists.
    I work in the IT field as well, though I will retire at the end of the yearl. While the IT field is important, an IT professional does not have to spend 8 to 16 years of post K-12 to become qualified in their field. And as for your gripes about higher wages and profits for doctors and the insurance industry, America is an economic superpower, largely because of free enterprise capitalism. Our system for the most part works because the market sets the prices as well as the wages, rather then the government. On the costs of healthcare and health insurance, if the government would tinker much less and just allow the market to set prices, the competition would drive the costs down so fast it would make your head spin.
    Democrats were for the border wall before they were against it!

  9. #259
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    Re: This Is Medicare For All

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Relative to what, exactly? Certainly not relative to federal spending or the defict would have decreased.
    You just supported my argument without realizing it.
    Democrats were for the border wall before they were against it!

  10. #260
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    Re: This Is Medicare For All

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Speaking of lies, Bernie Sanders is quite aware that what he is proposing would never pass and he is also quite aware that the nation would go bankrupt paying for it. Bernie is just hoping to stand out in the ultra alt left and draw as many primary votes as he can get. Then if he were to get the nomination, he would then tone his medicare for all fantasy down considerably.
    Just gotta take the whitehouse... which will be done, and the senate. And that's looking pretty good. You can go ahead and start crying now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    I'm a moderate.
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    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office.
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    ...blacks used to be Democrat slaves, now they are Democrat pets.

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