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Should Either Sanders Or Warren Drop Out?

Moderate Right said:
Pollers can make the polling outcomes come out the way they want to by influencing the question. For example, they can have a poll which shows that most Americans favor MFA but when most Americans hear the nuts and bolts of MFA, all of a sudden they are not for it as much as the left try to claim with their phoney polling.
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This is true, which is why when they ask the MFA question the correct way - you lose your private insurance and pay more in taxes, but can go to any doctor, and overall pay less as you're not paying copays, deductibles, and premiums, over 50% over people polled support it.

So no. You're wrong, you know you're ****ing wrong, which is not out of the norm for you and your "moderate" right bull****.
 
Napoleon said:
Yes, well the devil is always in the details. The polling data shows that most are in favor of something like Medicare For All...until you ask if they’re willing to pay for it. Then most hate the idea.
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And not when presented with the truth; they'd pay less overall for MFA than they currently do. As it stands all the fake MSM does is skew perception by continuously disparaging single payer, never disucssing the merits, always preying on the fears. Moreover, they never honestly display to those they poll how the system will actually work and how they individually will pay less overall.

So the complaints of "right wingers" is unfounded soundbyte do nothing nihilistic trash. Par for the course for the ideology that can't even be consistent on budget issues.
 
Obscurity said:
And not when presented with the truth; they'd pay less overall for MFA than they currently do. As it stands all the fake MSM does is skew perception by continuously disparaging single payer, never disucssing the merits, always preying on the fears. Moreover, they never honestly display to those they poll how the system will actually work and how they individually will pay less overall.

So the complaints of "right wingers" is unfounded soundbyte do nothing nihilistic trash. Par for the course for the ideology that can't even be consistent on budget issues.
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Except that isn’t truth for most people. And not even Sanders will stand on that debate stage and defend the tax rates required to pay for it. As we saw in the last debate.
 
ataraxia said:
Biden is the one who is willing, and able, to go to Trump's depths and beat him there. Warren is just way to educated and refined to even know what to do with all the cussing from Trump.

Remember Biden is the one who said Trump is the bully that he is going to take to the back of the high school and teach a lesson. I don't see Warren the Harvard law professor thinking, saying, or doing anything like that. Someone is going to have to be willing to get dirty in the putrid muddy pigpen where Trump lives and wrestle him there. It's going to take a strong stomach to go there. Warren is way too highbrow for that.
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Warren beats Biden hands down on having any grasp of policy details - you seem to think that is not as important to the US electorate as being a 'fighter'. Warren's problem is that she must address too many "issues" while knowing full that only a few will have any chance of being addressed (even if she did get elected POTUS) much less accompanied by legislation that could pass both the House and the Senate.
 
swing_voter said:
Who among the 20 is a brass knuckle fighter? Harris?

Biden is the type of guy we elected to the presidency in the past. Biden will bring us back to normal. A lot of people want that.
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Sanders. Sanders is a brass knuckle brawler. He will not take Trump's bull**** and will eviscerate him on both policy and failed, unkept promises.

Biden can't even put a sentence together. He did marginally better last debate, but jesus christ the man will be gutted against Trump.
 
ataraxia said:
Biden is the one who is willing, and able, to go to Trump's depths and beat him there. Warren is just way to educated and refined to even know what to do with all the cussing from Trump.

Remember Biden is the one who said Trump is the bully that he is going to take to the back of the high school and teach a lesson. I don't see Warren the Harvard law professor thinking, saying, or doing anything like that. Someone is going to have to be willing to get dirty in the putrid muddy pigpen where Trump lives and wrestle him there. It's going to take a strong stomach to go there. Warren is way too highbrow for that.
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Biden against Trump in a debate is not something I would ever watch. Trump would completely demolish Biden in a debate.

As far as getting dirty, Sanders is where it's at. Sanders will defeat Trump in the general, and will make a mockery of him in the debates.
 
Napoleon said:
Except that isn’t truth for most people. And not even Sanders will stand on that debate stage and defend the tax rates required to pay for it. As we saw in the last debate.
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Sanders has already laid out how it would be paid for, and it's true for far more people than you think.
 
Obscurity said:
And not when presented with the truth; they'd pay less overall for MFA than they currently do. As it stands all the fake MSM does is skew perception by continuously disparaging single payer, never disucssing the merits, always preying on the fears. Moreover, they never honestly display to those they poll how the system will actually work and how they individually will pay less overall.

So the complaints of "right wingers" is unfounded soundbyte do nothing nihilistic trash. Par for the course for the ideology that can't even be consistent on budget issues.
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That, of course, requires the elimination of for-profit medical care providers and getting the remaining public/non-profit medical care providers to accept whatever the single-payer (some federal agency?) decides is a "fair price" for treating medical condition X, performing medical procedure X or taking drug X. Which specific, current M4A bill do you feel could pass congress?
 
Napoleon said:
Bernie should be on his hands and knees thanking the DNC for plucking him out of obscurity and allowing non-Democrat’s to leverage its infrastructure and to run in its primary. Bernie lost the primary by 3.7 million votes because he failed to convince the majority of democratic voters to buy in to his ideas. That is all that matters and, if anything, the DNC should bar what are really third party candidates from running under the Democratic banner. Instead we’re stuck with 20 candidates, most of whom shouldn’t even be there, doing Trump’s opposition research and mud slinging for him.
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We have literal evidence that the DNC systematically rigged the primaries in favor of Hilary Clinton to spite Bernie Sanders.
 
ataraxia said:
I'm thinking most progressives are going to realize that if they really want a chance at beating Trump, they need to bite the bullet and go with Biden.

Of course, personally I think Warren is probably the best candidate. But she is way too smart for this country.
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Out of those 3 I would normally have preferred Biden, but not any more. He's the only one of the 3 that doesn't want to steer the country head first into a socialist ****-hole, but I don't think Biden has the mental ability to lead anymore. He seems to be in the initial stages of Alzheimers and I assure you, my assessment is not a partisan political one. Although I have always thought Biden was to loopy and "out there" to be president, I never questioned his mental well being until now. In the debates he just seemed lost, and at times it seemed like he had no idea what was going on. I've always liked Biden as a person and it's kind of sad to see him this way.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That, of course, requires the elimination of for-profit medical care providers and getting the remaining public/non-profit medical care providers to accept whatever the single-payer (some federal agency?) decides is a "fair price" for treating medical condition X, performing medical procedure X or taking drug X. Which specific, current M4A bill do you feel could pass congress?
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Bernie's. Only because Sanders will not stop at getting it to pass.

And yes, it's time a fair price is negotiated in this country. When we the tax payers bankroll the development, and then our investment is rewarded with vastly overinflated prices compared to everyone who benefits but DIDN'T pay into it, I have no sympathy for the medical industry. It's time to reign it in.
 
Obscurity said:
Sanders. Sanders is a brass knuckle brawler. He will not take Trump's bull**** and will eviscerate him on both policy and failed, unkept promises.

Biden can't even put a sentence together. He did marginally better last debate, but jesus christ the man will be gutted against Trump.
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Bernie looked pretty wimpy during the democratic presidential debates. Harris was tough.
 
swing_voter said:
Bernie looked pretty wimpy during the democratic presidential debates. Harris was tough.
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Are you insane? In the second debate Bernie demolished everyone on stage. The wreckage of which is the Ryan, Bennett and Delaney campaigns; I wonder where they are going?
 
CMPancake said:
We have literal evidence that the DNC systematically rigged the primaries in favor of Hilary Clinton to spite Bernie Sanders.
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You have exactly zero evidence that the primary was “rigged.” Bernie’s 3.7 million vote loss was no ones fault but his own. What we do have copious evidence of is Bernie Sanders whining about the rules he signed up for whenever he lost.
 
swing_voter said:
Who among the 20 is a brass knuckle fighter? Harris?

Biden is the type of guy we elected to the presidency in the past. Biden will bring us back to normal. A lot of people want that.
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I think you're right. I also don't think Biden's approach is to get into a verbal street brawl with Trump either if he's going to represent the adult in the room. Handling Trump with grace, yet putting him in his place will be the way to go.
 
Obscurity said:
Sanders has already laid out how it would be paid for, and it's true for far more people than you think.
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No he hasn’t. The plan, so called, that Sanders put out there only accounts for a fraction of the cost. He did finally admit that taxes would have to be raised on the middle class in the first debate but when asked how much in the second he just flailed around like one of those car dealership windsocks and tried to deflect it by calling it a Republican talking point.
 
Obscurity said:
Bernie's. Only because Sanders will not stop at getting it to pass.

And yes, it's time a fair price is negotiated in this country. When we the tax payers bankroll the development, and then our investment is rewarded with vastly overinflated prices compared to everyone who benefits but DIDN'T pay into it, I have no sympathy for the medical industry. It's time to reign it in.
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Hmm... like we reigned in the MIC profits or require SNAP accepting food providers to charge reasonable grocery prices? Don't kid yourself as to what actually happens when congress (or its assigns) becomes the single-payer.
 
Moderate Right said:
The latest polling seems to have Biden alone at the top with 28.4% with the next two being Sanders at 17.1% and Warren at 14.6%, splitting the progressive vote. Otherwise, one progressive candidate would be in the lead with 31.7% and Biden in second place with his 28.4%. What say you?

Polls Since The Second Debate Show Kamala Harris Slipping | FiveThirtyEight
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I'm pretty certain that this (one dropping out and supporting the other) is the plan between them later on in the primary; they're not attacking each other for good reason, despite the media's tireless attempts to bait and Biden's fondest hopes.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm... like we reigned in the MIC profits or require SNAP accepting food providers to charge reasonable grocery prices? Don't kid yourself as to what actually happens when congress (or its assigns) becomes the single-payer.
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Every single other major nation on earth does it; I have no tolerance for the narrative that we can't.
 
As to Warren vs Sanders, my preference is Sanders; I think he's got the sheer cojones, strength and raw conviction to stand up to Trump, whereas I'm not so sure whether this is true of Warren. Still, I would obviously vastly prefer either to Biden.
 
Obscurity said:
Every single other major nation on earth does it; I have no tolerance for the narrative that we can't.
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Every single one of those nations also spends less on "defense" too and is not.ruled by our congress critters who depend on massive amounts of campaign cash (legal bribes?) to remain in office.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Every single one of those nations also spends less on "defense" too and is not.ruled by our congress critters who depend on massive amounts of campaign cash (legal bribes?) to remain in office.
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Now on the last part we agree, which is why I will vote and promote Sanders, because he is against that, as well.

As far as "defense" is concerned, you and I both know we have an OFFENSE budget, not a defense budget, and our military expenditure, 60 cents on every dollar, is absolutely unacceptable and obscene.

It's becoming soviet like; massive, inefficient, all consuming, and not operating as the initial designers intended.
 
Surrealistik said:
As to Warren vs Sanders, my preference is Sanders; I think he's got the sheer cojones, strength and raw conviction to stand up to Trump, whereas I'm not so sure whether this is true of Warren. Still, I would obviously vastly prefer either to Biden.
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Biden sucks.

"Here's the deal; Donald Trump man depends are a bitch, is a racist - look folks, I was around-president Obama said, well, he's a racist. Bunch of Malarkey."
 
Moderate Right said:
The latest polling seems to have Biden alone at the top with 28.4% with the next two being Sanders at 17.1% and Warren at 14.6%, splitting the progressive vote. Otherwise, one progressive candidate would be in the lead with 31.7% and Biden in second place with his 28.4%. What say you?

Polls Since The Second Debate Show Kamala Harris Slipping | FiveThirtyEight
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No.

Pocahontas the Communist and the food spitting Communist should stay in and let ‘er rip.

For the good of the country.
 
Obscurity said:
Biden sucks.

"Here's the deal; Donald Trump man depends are a bitch, is a racist - look folks, I was around-president Obama said, well, he's a racist. Bunch of Malarkey."
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Could you repost that in English please.

Thanks.
 
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