When will we get some laws on the books for domestic terrorism?

Listening to the FBI they only had an hour to stop this....because they can't treat this the same as you would a foreign terrorists. They can't investigate the same way...wtf?

This El Paso shooting has shaken me personally.
I was in that damn Walmart last night. I was at the fountain shopping and having dinner.
But for a few hours I could be one of the 20 dead or 26 injured.
I'm here, I gave blood and will be leaving the area in the morning, something I won't forget soon, it's the saddest thing to actually be in the immediate vicinity of something like this.
It's easy to watch it on TV or talk about it in the abstract....being in the effected community just sucks.

Middle_Ground said:

Listening to the FBI they only had an hour to stop this....because they can't treat this the same as you would a foreign terrorists. They can't investigate the same way...wtf?

This El Paso shooting has shaken me personally.
I was in that damn Walmart last night. I was at the fountain shopping and having dinner.
But for a few hours I could be one of the 20 dead or 26 injured.
I'm here, I gave blood and will be leaving the area in the morning, something I won't forget soon, it's the saddest thing to actually be in the immediate vicinity of something like this.
It's easy to watch it on TV or talk about it in the abstract....being in the effected community just sucks.

Click to expand...

Why do you characterize this as "domestic terrorism"?

Middle_Ground said:

Listening to the FBI they only had an hour to stop this....because they can't treat this the same as you would a foreign terrorists. They can't investigate the same way...wtf?

This El Paso shooting has shaken me personally.
I was in that damn Walmart last night. I was at the fountain shopping and having dinner.
But for a few hours I could be one of the 20 dead or 26 injured.
I'm here, I gave blood and will be leaving the area in the morning, something I won't forget soon, it's the saddest thing to actually be in the immediate vicinity of something like this.
It's easy to watch it on TV or talk about it in the abstract....being in the effected community just sucks.

Click to expand...

Thank you so much for giving blood to the victims, Middle_Ground.

You're a great American and human being.

Middle_Ground said:

Listening to the FBI they only had an hour to stop this....because they can't treat this the same as you would a foreign terrorists. They can't investigate the same way...wtf?

This El Paso shooting has shaken me personally.
I was in that damn Walmart last night. I was at the fountain shopping and having dinner.
But for a few hours I could be one of the 20 dead or 26 injured.
I'm here, I gave blood and will be leaving the area in the morning, something I won't forget soon, it's the saddest thing to actually be in the immediate vicinity of something like this.
It's easy to watch it on TV or talk about it in the abstract....being in the effected community just sucks.

Click to expand...

We do have laws. But our current president is weak on domestic terrorism. That's the problem.

Mycroft said:

Why do you characterize this as "domestic terrorism"?

Click to expand...

What would you call the murder of 20 & the injury 26 of your fellow countrymen?
You know a citizen of the country mass murdering people of same country they don't know.
What would you call it?

MovingPictures said:

Thank you so much for giving blood to the victims, Middle_Ground.

You're a great American and human being.

Click to expand...

Actually I'm quite the asshole but why wouldn't anyone give something that hurts them in no way and can save someone's life.
I'm a universal donor so I always give.

Mycroft said:

Why do you characterize this as "domestic terrorism"?

Click to expand...

Domestic terrorism is defined as terrorism in which the perpetrator targets his/her own country.
It seems to fit the definition.

Middle_Ground said:

Listening to the FBI they only had an hour to stop this....because they can't treat this the same as you would a foreign terrorists. They can't investigate the same way...wtf?

This El Paso shooting has shaken me personally.
I was in that damn Walmart last night. I was at the fountain shopping and having dinner.
But for a few hours I could be one of the 20 dead or 26 injured.
I'm here, I gave blood and will be leaving the area in the morning, something I won't forget soon, it's the saddest thing to actually be in the immediate vicinity of something like this.
It's easy to watch it on TV or talk about it in the abstract....being in the effected community just sucks.

Click to expand...

I couldn't imagine how is feel if it happened in my back yard. I've witnessed murder before and it is terrifying.

Middle_Ground said:

Listening to the FBI they only had an hour to stop this....because they can't treat this the same as you would a foreign terrorists. They can't investigate the same way...wtf?

This El Paso shooting has shaken me personally.
I was in that damn Walmart last night. I was at the fountain shopping and having dinner.
But for a few hours I could be one of the 20 dead or 26 injured.
I'm here, I gave blood and will be leaving the area in the morning, something I won't forget soon, it's the saddest thing to actually be in the immediate vicinity of something like this.
It's easy to watch it on TV or talk about it in the abstract....being in the effected community just sucks.

Click to expand...

Do you have a link for that (bolded above) assertion? Are you implying that the FBI knew that someone (specific) from Allen, TX was going to shoot folks in El Paso, TX for an hour before it happened?

Middle_Ground said:

What would you call the murder of 20 & the injury 26 of your fellow countrymen?
You know a citizen of the country mass murdering people of same country they don't know.
What would you call it?

Click to expand...

Murder.

Outlook said:

Domestic terrorism is defined as terrorism in which the perpetrator targets his/her own country.
It seems to fit the definition.

Click to expand...

the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—

(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

(B) appear to be intended—

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and​

(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States;

18 U.S. Code SS 2331 - Definitions | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

Click to expand...

Phys251 said:

We do have laws. But our current president is weak on domestic terrorism. That's the problem.

Click to expand...

This is the 3rd time I've heard after a shooting there are no laws on the books the FBI hands are tied they can't infiltrate and hang out in places like 4 or 8 chan and stop this stuff before it happens unless someone reports it or something happens.

CLAX1911 said:

I couldn't imagine how is feel if it happened in my back yard. I've witnessed murder before and it is terrifying.

Click to expand...

It's all our communities. We are all citizens of the USA. I just happened to be here I don't live here.

ttwtt78640 said:

Do you have a link for that (bolded above) assertion? Are you implying that the FBI knew that someone (specific) from Allen, TX was going to shoot folks in El Paso, TX for an hour before it happened?

Click to expand...

Sorry no link I'm here i was listening to the local news. They said he posted a manifesto 1 hour before he walked into this Walmart.
Now I'm hearing it was 25 minutes before.

Middle_Ground said:

This is the 3rd time I've heard after a shooting there are no laws on the books the FBI hands are tied they can't infiltrate and hang out in places like 4 or 8 chan and stop this stuff before it happens unless someone reports it or something happens.

Click to expand...

To be fair, the amount of information you could actually get from one of these websites is pretty sparse. You don't even make an account to post on them.

Middle_Ground said:

Listening to the FBI they only had an hour to stop this....because they can't treat this the same as you would a foreign terrorists. They can't investigate the same way...wtf?

This El Paso shooting has shaken me personally.
I was in that damn Walmart last night. I was at the fountain shopping and having dinner.
But for a few hours I could be one of the 20 dead or 26 injured.
I'm here, I gave blood and will be leaving the area in the morning, something I won't forget soon, it's the saddest thing to actually be in the immediate vicinity of something like this.
It's easy to watch it on TV or talk about it in the abstract....being in the effected community just sucks.

Click to expand...

Do you have any more information on the FBI thing?

Mycroft said:

Murder.

Click to expand...

Based on the reporting this act meets both A and B.
What else you got?
As a person of color I am ****ing intimidated?
Won't be for long but right now yeah I'm a little shaken.
What else do you need?

Phys251 said:

We do have laws. But our current president is weak on domestic terrorism. That's the problem.

Click to expand...

He is? In what way? Please don't trot out Charlottesville clichés.

Jesse Booth said:

To be fair, the amount of information you could actually get from one of these websites is pretty sparse. You don't even make an account to post on them.

Click to expand...

The Cambridge Analytica whitleblower said they could profile people and know their choices better than themselves. What's your experience to make a judgement that you can't really learn about people from the internet? You do know where the technology for CA came from right? Investors on Wall Street, you know what they use it for right? To beat the market and/or hedge investments. I think where there is a profit motive, people have no trouble imagining and implementing dramatically effective solutions. For everything else, people tend to shrug.

Middle_Ground said:

Sorry no link I'm here i was listening to the local news. They said he posted a manifesto 1 hour before he walked into this Walmart.
Now I'm hearing it was 25 minutes before.

Click to expand...

Knowing that someone (from Allen, TX) posted a "manifesto" is not a good clue that a mass shooting is about to occur over 600 miles away in El Paso, TX.

Middle_Ground said:

Based on the reporting this act meets both A and B.
What else you got?
As a person of color I am ****ing intimidated?
Won't be for long but right now yeah I'm a little shaken.
What else do you need?

Click to expand...

I'll admit that I haven't been following the reporting. That's why I asked why you would characterize this as domestic terrorism. So, can you give me a rundown on the particular reporting you've seen that makes you think this act meets those two conditions?

ttwtt78640 said:

Knowing that someone (from Allen, TX) posted a "manifesto" is not a good clue that a mass shooting is about to occur over 600 miles away in El Paso, TX.

Click to expand...

How would you know? You don't want to do anything, so you told me, so what do you care anyway? Stop trying ttwtt, you claim you desire do do nothing. So stop acting like you're interested right?
In the real world ttwtt, people typically leave a footprint both digital and analog, that can be used to identify where someone is going, or is, at any given time.
The most obvious being a phone, travel plans, travel receipts if by air or train or bus, friends who can be talked to that overheard it.

The idea that you once again cannot imagine how anyone could "do something", is bewildering.

Maybe none of those are applicable here, but then again, who cares right? doing nothing is best.

Mach said:

The Cambridge Analytica whitleblower said they could profile people and know their choices better than themselves. What's your experience to make a judgement that you can't really learn about people from the internet? You do know where the technology for CA came from right? Investors on Wall Street, you know what they use it for right? To beat the market and/or hedge investments. I think where there is a profit motive, people have no trouble imagining and implementing dramatically effective solutions. For everything else, people tend to shrug.

Click to expand...

Okay, here's an example of the issue with the lack of accounts. I have three separate devices that I occasionally browse 4Chan on, and since I tend to go to different boards for different purposes, I also use different devices in different places. When I'm pirating PDFs on the traditional games board or trying to find a nice anime torrent, I use my laptop for those, and tend to talk primarily about Warhammer 40,000 or whatever repetitive "have you tried not playing D&D" thread has caught my attention recently. This would be tracked separately from the phone I browse the various porn board on during my spare time throughout the day, and it's also tracked separately form me using a tablet as an excuse to browse the current events board in class. While I might be a sick **** who likes anime and tabletop games, but also pays attention to current events and argues in favor of various Democratic candidates for fun, I would register to an algorithm as one sick ****, a guy who loves the **** out of pretend games and cheap Japanese cartoons & a guy who really ****ing loves Bernie, and not a single one of them will be speaking the same way and using the same kinds of phrases since each board has its own culture; someone who crossposts on the fitness board and the My Little Pony board (yes, that does in fact exist) will often code switch to better adapt their language to the appropriate groupthink. The average digital consumer owns 3.2 devices, so a lot of other people are in the same boat on that site.

If you want to fix the issue with disaffected young men getting indoctrinated into far right circles online, you can go about it in a much better way than trying to get an algorithm to play guess who with separate devices on different wifi connections while also mapping out the way different people speak differently on boards that only really share a spiteful sense of contrarianism.

Middle_Ground said:

Sorry no link I'm here i was listening to the local news. They said he posted a manifesto 1 hour before he walked into this Walmart.
Now I'm hearing it was 25 minutes before.

Click to expand...

What exactly do you think they are going to do in 25 minutes or even an hour, presuming they believe the manifesto? This is were learning to defend yourself and how to be aware of your surroundings pays dividends. The police cannot prevent everything nor can they be everywhere. You ARE the first responder when you are in those situations.

A really good book on what you need to think about and do.

https://www.amazon.com/Sheep-No-Mor...&sprefix=dan+b,aps,607&sr=8-9#customerReviews

Judge the book for its content not the authors. It shows you what to look for and how to act. I have learned this stuff over my whole life. Most of what I have learned is stuffed in this book.

Middle_Ground said:

Listening to the FBI they only had an hour to stop this....because they can't treat this the same as you would a foreign terrorists. They can't investigate the same way...wtf?

This El Paso shooting has shaken me personally.
I was in that damn Walmart last night. I was at the fountain shopping and having dinner.
But for a few hours I could be one of the 20 dead or 26 injured.
I'm here, I gave blood and will be leaving the area in the morning, something I won't forget soon, it's the saddest thing to actually be in the immediate vicinity of something like this.
It's easy to watch it on TV or talk about it in the abstract....being in the effected community just sucks.

Click to expand...

Everyone is always at risk. I had plane tickets for 11:00 am on 9\11. My stepfather was talking to 5 friends for the last time when an artillery shell killed everyone but him. The person directly in front of him shielded him. He took shrapnel but nothing lethal. He was a cook taking a break outside the mess trying to cool off on a hot summer day in Korea.
You can't live your life in fear. If you do then you have let them win. In this country citizens have rights that hamper investigations. It was a major problem for Bush right after 911. How far do you go before we are no longer are free people. The NSA and other government officials are already dangerously close to unconstitutional right now. Waterboarding gave us lots of information that prevented attacks on this country and around the world. Do we start doing that to everyone we suspect may have information we need? The sad fact is if we give law enforcement a green light to do whatever they want to stop these actions we will have lost our freedom. Too many people have died to go down that road.

Middle_Ground said:

Based on the reporting this act meets both A and B.
What else you got?
As a person of color I am ****ing intimidated?
Won't be for long but right now yeah I'm a little shaken.
What else do you need?

Click to expand...

Plus the FBI has launched a domestic terrorism investigation into this matter.