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Here's why Biden will win the Democrat Party Nomination

Hey, more lying advice from Democrats from a 'conservative'. Thanks, but no thanks.
 
Cougarbear said:
Yet, is lead is building in the polls. Why is that?
Click to expand...

Name recognition and having been Obama's VP. Now will you stop bothering Democrats with your 'advice'?
 
GDViking said:
If Biden wins the primary (and I think he will because it is clear he will wipe the floor with trump) I believe be will pick up Warren, Harris, or buttigieg as his VP,

They will be, along with the Obamas the ones to fire up the base...
Click to expand...

If Biden were to be the nominee, myself being a numbers guy, both Warren and Harris are from solid Democratic states. Now Buttigieg, Indiana might give a Biden/Buttigieg ticket a chance at winning that state. Although I doubt it. I'd look at a swing state or a state Hillary narrowly lost to Trump for a VP choice. Someone not from the Northeast to give the ticket a more regional balance.

Someone from Florida, 29 electoral votes and a swing state would be ideal. Someone from North Carolina, Georgia or Arizona could tip those states into the Democratic column. But the problem with those three, the VP would have to be a moderate which Biden already is. Someone from Michigan, Wisconsin or Pennsylvania as VP would most likely put whichever state the VP is from back into being part of the solid blue wall. There's other possibilities.

But being a numbers guy, I rarely take ideology into consideration and ideology plays a huge part here. Whomever Biden chooses must be to the left of him. Also someone much younger with a ton of energy. Warren, Sanders, Booker I'd pass over. My opinion anyway. Also keep in mind I'm no Democrat although with Georgia being an open primary state, I'll vote in the democratic primaries. Hickenlooper and Klobuchar are my two top picks. But they're not going anywhere. Just like Jim Webb was my choice in 2016.
 
BF (Your Initials): Biden will win the nomination for three reasons: (1) He's center-left. (2) He's extremely popular with black voters, and (3) He is the best candidate, at least according to the present day polls, to beat Trump in the popular vote and in the electoral college.

CB: He's never been center left. He's always been quite liberal. But, he's not all the way to the Squad or Bernie Sanders. Sanders pinned him on his segregationist issue and the polls mean nothing on the popular vote at this time. Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary yet is President. The only thing that matters is the Electoral College. Why people talk about popular vote is silly since California and New York pretty much take up the popular vote polling nonsense.

BF: Despite what some/many people believe, most Americans are in the moderate section of the political spectrum. As in, we all take both traditional liberal and conservative positions. For over the past 50 years, the Republicans have elected a center-right candidate, Democrats have elected a center-left candidate. Anybody who wins as being Mr. Progressive or Mr. Conservative will probably end up losing. Biden playing the center-left lane is a major reason why he's going to win, along with the fact that he's extremely popular with black voters. The popularity has everything to do with how well he worked with Barack Obama.

CB: Hillary was center left and supported by Obama. But, she lost the swing states because of Obama's record in those swing states and he desire to see coal and manufacturing jobs sent over seas and to Mexico. Biden is no different in those respects. If the economy stays strong for those states, Biden will also lose. And, Trump doesn't have to win over a lot of black voters. He's at about 20% right now which is pretty high. And, that is because of the fact blacks have done well in the past 30 months with Trump. Not just with jobs, but also with income inequality and overall wealth discrepancy between white and blacks being cut in half.

BF: As for the general, I think Biden will be a nightmare for Trump. Yes, the economy is doing well, but that positive economy hasn't exactly benefited Trump at all. He's the LEAST popular President in modern history. His polling averages have ranged from 37% to 47%. His disapproval ratings have ALWAYS been above 50%. We're talking worse than Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford. At least with Carter and Ford, they have experienced positive numbers, Trump has not.

CB: He's least popular with Democrats. But, he's as popular with Republicans as any other Republican President. 93% and rising. Biden won't be able to shake the Obama legacy in those swing states when it comes to jobs, manufacturing and coal. 15 months is a long time and Biden isn't looking very sharp. Also, Trump has risen a lot in the polls lately. At least the ones that count. Trump won the 2 Democrat Debates so far. And, he's not even on the stage.

BF: We also have to understand that Trump won 304 electoral college votes fair and square, but he barely squeaked by in the key battleground states and banked off the fact that Hillary Clinton ignored the rust belt states. Biden is from Pennsylvania and running as a rust belt guy. This time around the Democrats, if they are smart, will actually campaign in those states.
I have even seen polls where Biden is leading in TEXAS of all places.

CB: Polls don't mean a thing now. They didn't mean anything in 2016 either. And, Biden won't be able to shake the rust belt Obama legacy off. Again, it depends what is going on with the economy at that time. Right now, Biden won't win in Pennsylvania either. Manufacturing jobs are booming their and Ohio. And, Biden just doesn't have the energy Trump has.
 
Craig234 said:
Name recognition and having been Obama's VP. Now will you stop bothering Democrats with your 'advice'?
Click to expand...

Will you stop trying to silence my free speech rights?
 
Cougarbear said:
Will you stop trying to silence my free speech rights?
Click to expand...

No one is trying to stop your rights. I'm exercising mine to comment on the flaws in your use of them. If you see someone simply advocating harm, and/or making a fool of themself, and/or posting false things and so on, you advise them to stop doing so. Unless you like those things, as you do.
 
Perotista said:
Whomever Biden chooses must be to the left of him. Also someone much younger with a ton of energy. Warren, Sanders, Booker I'd pass over.
Click to expand...

Presidents nearly always choose someone who will not conflict with them, who will 'serve loyally', whose main job is to help them win largely by being from a state they want to win. Who'd ever heard of Tim Kaine, Mike Pence, Dan Quayle, Sarah Palin (Palin wasn't for her state) nationally?
 
GDViking said:
If Biden wins the primary (and I think he will because it is clear he will wipe the floor with trump) I believe be will pick up Warren, Harris, or buttigieg as his VP,

They will be, along with the Obamas the ones to fire up the base...
Click to expand...

He'll never choose Warren, Harris, or buttigieg as his VP. He'll select who he hinted he'll select Stacey Abrams.
That would balance the ticket and maybe he could pick of Georgia. He doesn't need any help to win Massachusetts (Warren)
or (California) Harris. Mayor Pete is not gonna be on anyones list for VP.
 
Cougarbear said:
What in Bernie's words sounds like Scandinavian? Not a single thing he's proposing or what the "Squad" are proposing sounds Scandinavian. Not even close.
Click to expand...

Health insurance, treating migrant asylum seekers in accord with law and treaty. You know, what the Scandinavians try to do. Or several other European countries more relevant to Bernie’s or the Squad’s beliefs and proposals.
 
Craig234 said:
Presidents nearly always choose someone who will not conflict with them, who will 'serve loyally', whose main job is to help them win largely by being from a state they want to win. Who'd ever heard of Tim Kaine, Mike Pence, Dan Quayle, Sarah Palin (Palin wasn't for her state) nationally?
Click to expand...

I don't think Biden will win the nomination for reasons I already stated. Pence, Quayle and Kaine I had heard of prior to their selections. I was astonished and totally surprised Pence accepted the VP slot. Palin, Alaska, it was who the heck is she. Now I fall into the political junkie category, those not probably never heard of all four.
 
Cougarbear said:
It's really very simply and why Biden has such a big lead. And, he's doing it even though he's tired, boring and has the beginnings of dementia. See, the Democrat Party is still not all full of Venezuelan style of socialists. There is still a large number of capitalist who recognize Biden won't completely sell out the country to the Venezuelan style of socialism. So, it doesn't matter what the other candidates try to do to him on the stage at the debates.

Biden will have a big problem in the General Election against Trump is the economy is still doing well because Biden is making some errors in trying to go further to the left than he probably really is. And, if that is the case, then Trump will expose him and win the election because the Democrat independents and moderates will again vote for Trump or stay home giving Trump the victory and the House back to the Republicans.
Click to expand...

I wish everyone would understand that none of our Democratic nominees wants anything like Venezuela. There is no Democracy there. There is no health care for all because there is no health care at all. There is no will of the people because there is a Dictator running the country and it is he that decides everything for everyone. There is no desire to increase wages for people in Venezuela given that everything is owned by one man, Maduro.

What negative is there to wanting every American to have health care? What negative is there for having living wages so that everyone can live without having to work 3 jobs and still not have enough money saved so that an emergency can be addressed.

Venezuelan Socialism is not Socialism at all. It is a Dictatorship with everything going to one person.
 
Luckyone said:
I wish everyone would understand that none of our Democratic nominees wants anything like Venezuela.
Click to expand...

Yup.

There is no Democracy there.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go that far. Many still support Maduro - but they have two bad choices, the big problems with Maduro or going back to right-wing policies where the poor are badly screwed and there's still a lot of corruption.

There is no health care for all because there is no health care at all.
Click to expand...

The healthcare is a tragedy because of the economic problems, which we're causing a lot of with our sanctions.

Health care in Venezuela - Wikipedia

There is no will of the people because there is a Dictator running the country and it is he that decides everything for everyone. There is no desire to increase wages for people in Venezuela given that everything is owned by one man, Maduro.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you're getting that from. That's not what I've seen. But he has become more dictatorial, committed human rights abuses, and there is corruption.
 
Cougarbear said:
It's really very simply and why Biden has such a big lead. And, he's doing it even though he's tired, boring and has the beginnings of dementia. See, the Democrat Party is still not all full of Venezuelan style of socialists. There is still a large number of capitalist who recognize Biden won't completely sell out the country to the Venezuelan style of socialism. So, it doesn't matter what the other candidates try to do to him on the stage at the debates.

Biden will have a big problem in the General Election against Trump is the economy is still doing well because Biden is making some errors in trying to go further to the left than he probably really is. And, if that is the case, then Trump will expose him and win the election because the Democrat independents and moderates will again vote for Trump or stay home giving Trump the victory and the House back to the Republicans.
Click to expand...

I like your enthusiasm, but I think we need to readdress this in the beginning of 2020. Trump right now has very little support of African Americans and Women. He is not doing anything to help his ratings. Given that so many Republicans are not running for re-election is not a plus either.
 
Craig234 said:
Yup.



I wouldn't go that far. Many still support Maduro - but they have two bad choices, the big problems with Maduro or going back to right-wing policies where the poor are badly screwed and there's still a lot of corruption.



The healthcare is a tragedy because of the economic problems, which we're causing a lot of with our sanctions.

Health care in Venezuela - Wikipedia



I don't know where you're getting that from. That's not what I've seen. But he has become more dictatorial, committed human rights abuses, and there is corruption.
Click to expand...

Chavez took over all the big companies in Venezuela and they are now owned by the government. With Maduro being the government, it can be said he owns them given that he is the one that orders them what to do. Most of the companies including the Utility companies are owned by the government.

FYI, I am married to a Colombian lady and many of her friends are Venezuelan including one that was living there as little as a year ago. My wife is up on everything that happens there 24 hours a day to ad nausea.
 
Luckyone said:
I wish everyone would understand that none of our Democratic nominees wants anything like Venezuela. There is no Democracy there. There is no health care for all because there is no health care at all. There is no will of the people because there is a Dictator running the country and it is he that decides everything for everyone. There is no desire to increase wages for people in Venezuela given that everything is owned by one man, Maduro.

What negative is there to wanting every American to have health care? What negative is there for having living wages so that everyone can live without having to work 3 jobs and still not have enough money saved so that an emergency can be addressed.

Venezuelan Socialism is not Socialism at all. It is a Dictatorship with everything going to one person.
Click to expand...

I on the other hand wish everyone would understand that you know nothing about how these predicaments manifested themselves in Venezuela.
Venezuela since independence for the most part was lead by the Venezuelan elite of mostly white dictators before experimenting
with democratic rule at times after WWII. Before Chavez Venezuela's economy has always been controlled by a tiny minority of cosmopolitan
whites, or ''mantuanos,'' the Venezuelan term for persons with European features and pretensions. Not surprisingly, foreign investors
deal almost exclusively with members of the well-educated, English-speaking mantuano class.

Chavez rose to power on the wave of 'EXPLICIT ETHNICALLY BASED' populism.
HIS VICTORY was manufactured by arousing the political consciousness of the 'brown skinned pardos' who make up more than
two thirds of the population. One of them never lead the country before & there in the problem lies.
Chavez brought socialism to Venezuela.

Upon gaining power by attacking Venezuela's ''rotten'' white elites, calling himself ''the Indian from Barinas’'
He began to unify all powers (judicial, legislative and electoral) under his rule. He also used a terrible discourse of aggression
against the upper and middle classes, calling them names as a prelude to a series of expropriations.
The Chavez government took a series of measures to combat racism against people of African descent.
The fatal flaw of democracy in multiethnic nations arrived in Venezuela, Zimbabwe & South Africa when
opportunistic vote seeking politicians rail against a market able ethnic minority. It's a lethal cocktail.
Let's hope it doesn't spread northward!

As far a healthcare as the 1st democratically elected Venezuelan in ages Chavez promised to provide free health care to all and enshrined
this right within Venezuela's new constitution, rewritten in 1999. Progress was rapid and initial results were promising: according to the
World Bank, life expectancy at birth rose from 71·8 to 74·1 years for both genders and infant mortality fell from 26·7 to 14·6 deaths
per 1000 live births. However, when the oil price began to fall in 2008 and Chavez's revolutionary politics alienated foreign investors, the tide turned.
Worse yet after Chavez Maduro's government has allowed the country's infrastructure to crumble, with fatal consequences for ordinary Venezuelans.
Without regular reports on basic health indicators, assessment of the impact of the crisis is difficult. However, the Encuesta Nacional de Hospitales
2018 survey shows a shocking decline in health-care performance and a failure of the system.

So the Democrtats want every American to have health care, just as Chavez wanted every Venezuelan to have health care. Socialism was what
Chavez bought to Venezuela & socialism is what the far left desires to bring to America.

Thats what I don't get, it's a fight over who wants to be the next dictator. Even if we liberated it with our Military those people would
just vote for another Socialist. So why intervene to save it? Operation liberty was a complete failure because it was a revolt fabricated in the US.
The army didn't support it because the people didn't support it. The reason Juan Guaido's so-called "revolution" failed is that he is despised by the majority of
the Venezuelan people as "gringo puppet". Let's not forget that Nicolas Madura received 6 million votes during the last election. How many votes did Guaido receive? ZERO.
 
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slick said:
I on the other hand wish everyone would understand that you know nothing about how these predicaments manifested themselves in Venezuela.
Venezuela since independence for the most part was lead by the Venezuelan elite of mostly white dictators before experimenting
with democratic rule at times after WWII. Before Chavez Venezuela's economy has always been controlled by a tiny minority of cosmopolitan
whites, or ''mantuanos,'' the Venezuelan term for persons with European features and pretensions. Not surprisingly, foreign investors
deal almost exclusively with members of the well-educated, English-speaking mantuano class

As far a healthcare as the 1st democratically elected Venezuelan in ages Chavez promised to provide free health care to all and enshrined
this right within Venezuela's new constitution, rewritten in 1999. Progress was rapid and initial results were promising: according to the
World Bank, life expectancy at birth rose from 71·8 to 74·1 years for both genders and infant mortality fell from 26·7 to 14·6 deaths
per 1000 live births. However, when the oil price began to fall in 2008 and Chavez's revolutionary politics alienated foreign investors, the tide turned.
Worse yet after Chavez Maduro's government has allowed the country's infrastructure to crumble, with fatal consequences for ordinary Venezuelans.

So the Democrtats want every American to have health care, just as Chavez wanted every Venezuelan to have health care. Socialism was what
Chavez bought to Venezuela & socialism is what the far left desires to bring to America.

Thats what I don't get, it's a fight over who wants to be the next dictator. Even if we liberated it with our Military those people would
just vote for another Socialist. So why intervene to save it? Operation liberty was a complete failure because it was a revolt fabricated in the US.
The army didn't support it because the people didn't support it. The reason Juan Guaido's so-called "revolution" failed is that he is despised by the majority of
the Venezuelan people as "gringo puppet". Let's not forget that Nicolas Madura received 6 million votes during the last election. How many votes did Guaido receive? ZERO.
Click to expand...

You started your post with a fallacy saying I don't know anything about Venezuela. I can guarantee you that I know more about Venezuela than you do. My wife is Colombian and was born near the Venezuelan border and many of her friends are Venezuelan. I have been married to her for 19 years and every single day the TV is on the Latin stations from Venezuela and Colombia. For over 5 years we listened to the TV station that was critical of Chavez and that was later closed by him. One of our closest friends was married to a Venezuelan company owner and she visited her family here every year and we talked to her every year. She now lives here since her husband died about a year ago.

I am totally aware of every single thing that has happened in Venezuela.

Yes, Chavez was voted into the presidency by popular vote given that the previous administration was corrupt and taking advantage of the people. It was considered a socialist victory at the time given that it was the people that voted him in with the idea they would get their fair share. Chavez started that way but he soon became a Dictator as he no longer listened to anyone but himself. He associated himself with Cuba and then became somewhat dependent on Cuba as he did not trust his own people. 80% of the top of the military in Venezuela are Cubans and those Venezuelans that began to oppose him were either jailed or killed. Chavez began appropriating all industries and the problem with that is that they were replaced by people with no experience to run those companies and everything economically started heading south. Chavez died and the second in command was Maduro and he took over. Maduro was a bus driver before he entered politics under Chavez and has no experience on how to run a government. Over 9000 people have been executed under Maduro for simply complaining about the government.

In addition, the "socialists" here are doing this via a democratic vote and not by force as Maduro has done. Both of his elections were rigged. He was not voted into office though Chavez was. Neither Sanders nor Warren can be compared to Chavez given that our laws and our Constitution have safeguards against anyone person taking over as Chavez and Maduro did. If anything, Trump is the one that is trying to take us in Venezuela's direction as he does not believe in the Constitution nor in the laws here. If anyone can take us to the kind of rule that is found in Venezuela, it is Trump and not Sanders or Warren.

None of this scenario is possible here. This is not Venezuela and never can be or will be under Sanders or Warren.
 
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Luckyone said:
Chavez took over all the big companies in Venezuela and they are now owned by the government. With Maduro being the government, it can be said he owns them given that he is the one that orders them what to do. Most of the companies including the Utility companies are owned by the government.
Click to expand...

The did nationalize some industries - some for good reason - but Maduro isn't 'the government', he doesn't personally pocket the money of the government run companies, as far as I can tell he's not taking billions from the country as many dictators - many of them US-supported, many of them with the US approving of the taking of that money - have.

FYI, I am married to a Colombian lady and many of her friends are Venezuelan including one that was living there as little as a year ago. My wife is up on everything that happens there 24 hours a day to ad nausea.
Click to expand...

Good to know. I'm sure you have a lot of of good info. One thing I will say - I've seen a sort of two-tier type of Venezuelan - those who support Chavez/Maduro are usually poorer and live there; those who reach the US tend to be better off by Venezuelan standards and often absolutely hate them - a bit like people in Cuba versus Cuban exiles who live in Florida about the Cuban government.
 
Luckyone said:
For over 5 years we listened to the TV station that was critical of Chavez and that was later closed by him.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure which station you mean, but as I understand, while he did use some government power to threaten some opposition media, it can be argued he was actually incredibly tolerant - because this was less of a 'free speech' to criticize him issue, than forces practically in open rebellion with constant rabid attacks supporting rebellion - to the point that the opposition media conspired with the US to call for a big protest, in which THEY did a false flag operation with snipers shooting into the crowd, claiming the government had, as a provocation to trigger a coup, in which Chavez was physically taken into rebel custody and flown away.

They showed their real colors, as the US was standing by to immediately recognize the new government, when they immediately disbanded all the legislature, the judiciary, and the constitution to reinstate a right-wing authoritarian regime coordinating with the US. Only the people surrounding the palace and forcing their surrender returned Chavez to power. And after THAT treason, Chavez STILL forgave that opposition media largely IIRC.

Yes, Chavez was voted into the presidency by popular vote given that the previous administration was corrupt and taking advantage of the people. It was considered a socialist victory at the time given that it was the people that voted him in with the idea they would get their fair share. Chavez started that way but he soon became a Dictator as he no longer listened to anyone but himself. He associated himself with Cuba and then became somewhat dependent on Cuba as he did not trust his own people. 80% of the top of the military in Venezuela are Cubans and those Venezuelans that began to oppose him were either jailed or killed. Chavez began appropriating all industries and the problem with that is that they were replaced by people with no experience to run those companies and everything economically started heading south.
Click to expand...

That is leaving some things out, though. For example, the economy had become highly dependent on US companies who were exploiting Venezuala, and then he was elected they both launched a total economic shutdown of the country, trying to force the people to agree to remove him, that lasted six months of economic devastation, and they refused to honor their obligations to the country - for example, they refused to give the passwords to the computers used to run critical systems.

So, yes, there was economic harm in many ways - a big price for taking back control - but it was that or remain as sort of slaves to foreign (US) control over their own country that had been exploitave.

Over 9000 people have been executed under Maduro for simply complaining about the government.
Click to expand...

I don't know if that's accurate, but he's been very criticized by human rights groups, including for having people killed - as have leaders like the Philippines, who is HIGHLY praised by trump for it (nevermind Saudi Arabia's murder of a US resident), which I mention not to justify it at all, but so that we keep in mind some consistency so it's not only bad for people we 'don't like'.

In addition, the "socialists" here are doing this via a democratic vote and not by force as Maduro has done. Both of his elections were rigged. He was not voted into office though Chavez was. Neither Sanders nor Warren can be compared to Chavez given that our laws and our Constitution have safeguards against anyone person taking over as Chavez and Maduro did. If anything, Trump is the one that is trying to take us in Venezuela's direction as he does not believe in the Constitution nor in the laws here. If anyone can take us to the kind of rule that is found in Venezuela, it is Trump and not Sanders or Warren.
Click to expand...

There is just no comparison between these Democrats in the US and Maduro, who they oppose, except that the word "socialism" has some role in their very different policies, and they both give more priority to the poor than right-wing regimes.

None of this scenario is possible here. This is not Venezuela and never can be or will be under Sanders or Warren.
Click to expand...

Quite the opposite. Sanders and Warren offer more prosperity and power for the people - the American people are lied to about the Republicans about who threaten their interests.
 
slick said:
I on the other hand wish everyone would understand that you know nothing about how these predicaments manifested themselves in Venezuela.
Venezuela since independence for the most part was lead by the Venezuelan elite of mostly white dictators before experimenting
with democratic rule at times after WWII. Before Chavez Venezuela's economy has always been controlled by a tiny minority of cosmopolitan
whites, or ''mantuanos,'' the Venezuelan term for persons with European features and pretensions. Not surprisingly, foreign investors
deal almost exclusively with members of the well-educated, English-speaking mantuano class.

Chavez rose to power on the wave of 'EXPLICIT ETHNICALLY BASED' populism.
HIS VICTORY was manufactured by arousing the political consciousness of the 'brown skinned pardos' who make up more than
two thirds of the population. One of them never lead the country before & there in the problem lies.
Chavez brought socialism to Venezuela.

Upon gaining power by attacking Venezuela's ''rotten'' white elites, calling himself ''the Indian from Barinas’'
He began to unify all powers (judicial, legislative and electoral) under his rule. He also used a terrible discourse of aggression
against the upper and middle classes, calling them names as a prelude to a series of expropriations.
The Chavez government took a series of measures to combat racism against people of African descent.
The fatal flaw of democracy in multiethnic nations arrived in Venezuela, Zimbabwe & South Africa when
opportunistic vote seeking politicians rail against a market able ethnic minority. It's a lethal cocktail.
Let's hope it doesn't spread northward!

As far a healthcare as the 1st democratically elected Venezuelan in ages Chavez promised to provide free health care to all and enshrined
this right within Venezuela's new constitution, rewritten in 1999. Progress was rapid and initial results were promising: according to the
World Bank, life expectancy at birth rose from 71·8 to 74·1 years for both genders and infant mortality fell from 26·7 to 14·6 deaths
per 1000 live births. However, when the oil price began to fall in 2008 and Chavez's revolutionary politics alienated foreign investors, the tide turned.
Worse yet after Chavez Maduro's government has allowed the country's infrastructure to crumble, with fatal consequences for ordinary Venezuelans.
Without regular reports on basic health indicators, assessment of the impact of the crisis is difficult. However, the Encuesta Nacional de Hospitales
2018 survey shows a shocking decline in health-care performance and a failure of the system.

So the Democrtats want every American to have health care, just as Chavez wanted every Venezuelan to have health care. Socialism was what
Chavez bought to Venezuela & socialism is what the far left desires to bring to America.

Thats what I don't get, it's a fight over who wants to be the next dictator. Even if we liberated it with our Military those people would
just vote for another Socialist. So why intervene to save it? Operation liberty was a complete failure because it was a revolt fabricated in the US.
The army didn't support it because the people didn't support it. The reason Juan Guaido's so-called "revolution" failed is that he is despised by the majority of
the Venezuelan people as "gringo puppet". Let's not forget that Nicolas Madura received 6 million votes during the last election. How many votes did Guaido receive? ZERO.
Click to expand...

I see mostly things to agree with in your post, but there is no comparison in the situation between the two countries in the ability to provide universal healthcare. The reason healthcare has failed horribly in Venezuela is not because it was made universal, but related to the terrible condition of the economy overall, in part because of US economic warfare aka sanctions.

I agree with you about Guaido initially, but while I still oppose his returning as a US puppet, I see polling suggesting he's hit 61% approval while Maduro is down to about 15%, making for a crisis.
 
Luckyone said:
You started your post with a fallacy saying I don't know anything about Venezuela. I can guarantee you that I know more about Venezuela than you do.

None of this scenario is possible here. This is not Venezuela and never can be or will be under Sanders or Warren.
Click to expand...

OK, I acknowledge that your interest in the demise of Venezuela & was unfair to say you know nothing about how these predicaments unfolded in Venezuela.

But your statement
'Venezuelan Socialism is not Socialism at all. It is a Dictatorship with everything going to one person.'
demonstrates you miss the essence of the matter.

Amy Chua said it best when she exposed the fatal flaw of democracy in multi-ethnic nations:
Free markets concentrate wealth in the hands of a market capable ethnic minority while Democracy empowers the ethnic majority.
When democrcy brings the ethnic majority to power they demand a larger share of the wealth & demagogues (Chavez & Maduro) arise
to meet those demands. See where I'm going. That's the story of Venezuela, South Africa & Zimbabwe.

Today problem is the main opposition leaders are as white and as elite as before, and the challenge for the Venezuelan opposition
is that they cannot succeed without reaching out to the masses, without reaching out to the poor and some of the poorer sectors,
thus their alliance with Guido!

Guido has become a useful ally of the market capable minority who led Venezuela before Chavez. If Maduro
is overthrown the fortunes of the country would tend upward, but the old problems would still exist.
Following World War II, former dictator Marcos Perez Jimenez encouraged the immigration of Europeans, Italians,
Portuguese and Germans to help move to “whiten” the country. In Venezuela the elites throughout the 20th
century concluded that their underdevelopment was caused by their populations being mostly Amerindian, Mestizo or Mulatto
so a major process of "whitening" was required, or at least desirable.

##################################################################
Carolina Acosta-Alzuru, an associate professor of public relations at the University of Georgia and a native Venezuelan stated
'if you look at the upper socio-economic levels of the country,they tend to be whiter than on the lower socio-economic levels.
That is something that is very apparent to everybody.” The recent protests—at least those in the capital—are more about returning
the social and political elite to power—and that at its roots the conflict in Venezuela is really about RACE & CLASS.

Are race & class at the Root of Venezuela’s Political Crisis? | Voice of America - English
#####################################################################

Finally the socialism bought to venezuela by Chavez you say 'Venezuelan Socialism is not Socialism at all.' is wrong it was and it failed
for reasons I already alluded to, but you are partially correct that the tragedy of the Venezuela scenario is not possible here under Sanders or Warren
& here's why this is still a country with a market able majority. However, All Democrats candidates just raised their hands for giving millions
of illegal aliens unlimited healthcare, are advocating decriminalizing border hoping illegals, driver's liscences & a pathway to citizenship
getting driver's licenses, have the right to pay into Social Security.
How long will it take until the market capable majority no longer exists here then all bets are off!

Both Evo Morales & Chavez with an ethnic majority have goaded the Amerindian, Mestizo & Mulatto to take back what was allegedly stolen from them.
Concede the point that this type of rhetoric has become increasingly noticible in the bombastic flourishes of the uber progressive movement here.
OAC, Tlieb & Omar are the prime movers now but they are only a 'squad' 25 years from now they'll be a battalion.
 
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Craig234 said:
I see mostly things to agree with in your post, but there is no comparison in the situation between the two countries in the ability to provide universal healthcare. The reason healthcare has failed horribly in Venezuela is not because it was made universal, but related to the terrible condition of the economy overall, in part because of US economic warfare aka sanctions.

I agree with you about Guaido initially, but while I still oppose his returning as a US puppet, I see polling suggesting he's hit 61% approval while Maduro is down to about 15%, making for a crisis.
Click to expand...

Well stated probably correct but I'm hesitant to erect a cathedral around polls. If a new election was held today the coalition that Chavez
created with a replacement for Maduro as the leader would still hold. It's human nature.
 
slick said:
If a new election was held today the coalition that Chavez created with a replacement for Maduro as the leader would still hold. It's human nature.
Click to expand...

I actually hope you're right and that they can find some solutions. With the sanctions by the US, surrounded by countries hostile them at the US's bidding, what choice do they have but to turn to who they can, Cuba and Russia? Hopefully we can get a US presidency that will actually work with them.
 
MovingPictures said:
Biden can win, but he has to start doing better in these debates.

Let's look at the latest poll.

https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1157400246428868609

Biden 28%
Sanders 16%
Warren 8%
Harris 8%
Buttigieg 3%
Booker 3%
O’Rourke 3%
Gabbard 3%
Yang 2%
Castro 1%
Klobuchar 1%
Gillibrand 1%
Delaney 1%
ang 2%
Castro 1%
Klobuchar 1%
Gillibrand 1%
Delaney 1%
Inslee 1%
Williamson 1%
Ryan 1%
Bennet 1%
Bullock 1%
Steyer 1%
Hickenlooper 0%
Gravel 0%
Messam 0%
Moulton 0%
de Blasio 0%
Sestak 0%

This is actually a pretty bad poll for Bide, because with the exceptions of Klouchar, Delaney, and perhaps Buttigieg, the supporters of these other runners going to the third debate are very relucntant to support him. The support of Yang, O'Rouke, Booker, Warren, Sanders, and Harris adds up to 41% of the vote. Meanwhile, all the moderates are in the single digits, adding up to 6-8% of the vote, which would put him at 34-36%.

He can't afford to turn into a gaffe machine and take even small hit, or he'll be in big trouble, and he should pray the center left consolidates later, rather than sooner, and stays somewhat split. It's doable, but he'll need to start bringing some fire and do more than name drop Obama in these debates.
Click to expand...
In my opinion He's showing some early signs of cognitive loss. He is drifting between full and active engagement ( those are the good moments in the debate, when his wit is clever, and the light is in his eyes and his voice stays strong and confident) to some intermittent word loss, even forgetting what he intended to say. One reason he is so quick to respectfully stop talking when moderators suggest his time is up, is because its a good excuse to stop doing something that is increasingly risky- improvisation on his feet. Its a skill that comes and goes and he is using some compensatory strategies to avoid being caught.

One of the progressives will be clever enough to move to the center and fill a vacuum and grab a position between the moderates and the progressives and talk about 'unity' between the wings while disparaging Biden. Booker was trying to be that guy
 
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Cougarbear said:
It's really very simply and why Biden has such a big lead. And, he's doing it even though he's tired, boring and has the beginnings of dementia. See, the Democrat Party is still not all full of Venezuelan style of socialists. There is still a large number of capitalist who recognize Biden won't completely sell out the country to the Venezuelan style of socialism. So, it doesn't matter what the other candidates try to do to him on the stage at the debates.

Biden will have a big problem in the General Election against Trump is the economy is still doing well because Biden is making some errors in trying to go further to the left than he probably really is. And, if that is the case, then Trump will expose him and win the election because the Democrat independents and moderates will again vote for Trump or stay home giving Trump the victory and the House back to the Republicans.
Click to expand...



Nice spin

Here is the reason, . Biden was VP of a president who got the 1st & 2nd most votes in election history


There ya have it


Biden being in the lead and Jeb Bush being in the lead are two diffident things

A Bush was never going anywhere again. Anyone with a Brain knew that
 
slick said:
OK, I acknowledge that your interest in the demise of Venezuela & was unfair to say you know nothing about how these predicaments unfolded in Venezuela.

But your statement
'Venezuelan Socialism is not Socialism at all. It is a Dictatorship with everything going to one person.'
demonstrates you miss the essence of the matter.

Amy Chua said it best when she exposed the fatal flaw of democracy in multi-ethnic nations:
Free markets concentrate wealth in the hands of a market capable ethnic minority while Democracy empowers the ethnic majority.
When democrcy brings the ethnic majority to power they demand a larger share of the wealth & demagogues (Chavez & Maduro) arise
to meet those demands. See where I'm going. That's the story of Venezuela, South Africa & Zimbabwe.

Today problem is the main opposition leaders are as white and as elite as before, and the challenge for the Venezuelan opposition
is that they cannot succeed without reaching out to the masses, without reaching out to the poor and some of the poorer sectors,
thus their alliance with Guido!

Guido has become a useful ally of the market capable minority who led Venezuela before Chavez. If Maduro
is overthrown the fortunes of the country would tend upward, but the old problems would still exist.
Following World War II, former dictator Marcos Perez Jimenez encouraged the immigration of Europeans, Italians,
Portuguese and Germans to help move to “whiten” the country. In Venezuela the elites throughout the 20th
century concluded that their underdevelopment was caused by their populations being mostly Amerindian, Mestizo or Mulatto
so a major process of "whitening" was required, or at least desirable.

##################################################################
Carolina Acosta-Alzuru, an associate professor of public relations at the University of Georgia and a native Venezuelan stated
'if you look at the upper socio-economic levels of the country,they tend to be whiter than on the lower socio-economic levels.
That is something that is very apparent to everybody.” The recent protests—at least those in the capital—are more about returning
the social and political elite to power—and that at its roots the conflict in Venezuela is really about RACE & CLASS.

Are race & class at the Root of Venezuela’s Political Crisis? | Voice of America - English
#####################################################################

Finally the socialism bought to venezuela by Chavez you say 'Venezuelan Socialism is not Socialism at all.' is wrong it was and it failed
for reasons I already alluded to, but you are partially correct that the tragedy of the Venezuela scenario is not possible here under Sanders or Warren
& here's why this is still a country with a market able majority. However, All Democrats candidates just raised their hands for giving millions
of illegal aliens unlimited healthcare, are advocating decriminalizing border hoping illegals, driver's liscences & a pathway to citizenship
getting driver's licenses, have the right to pay into Social Security.
How long will it take until the market capable majority no longer exists here then all bets are off!

Both Evo Morales & Chavez with an ethnic majority have goaded the Amerindian, Mestizo & Mulatto to take back what was allegedly stolen from them.
Concede the point that this type of rhetoric has become increasingly noticible in the bombastic flourishes of the uber progressive movement here.
OAC, Tlieb & Omar are the prime movers now but they are only a 'squad' 25 years from now they'll be a battalion.
Click to expand...

Except that none of the countries you mention have a Constitution like ours that addresses those potential problems with the checks and balances we have here. Our forefathers visualized those potential outcomes and built a way to prevent them. You never seem to mention that in any of your long posts.

The outcomes you mention are not possible here.

By the way, you do not mention that the ethnic majority (Whites) did vote Trump in and Trump is as close to what Chavez and Maduro are than Sanders and Warren. If there is one person that has tried to set up an autocracy here it is Trump. How come you do not argue that?
 
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