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trump and Watergate are not alike (1 Viewer)

Craig234 said:
Answer the question.
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I don't lie. Mueller clearly evaluated whether the Trump Campaign committed a crime concerning conspiracy and coordination, again, your argument fails.
 
hanger4 said:
Making a referral doesn't conflict with DOJ policy either.
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He stated that Congress is the correct venue for prosecution of a President so he did make a referral.
 
Mycroft said:
The rule of law...and craven Dem Congressmen...are the only thing preventing Trump from being impeached.
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No it is 50 Republicans Senators who have chosen partisanship over the rule of law out of cowardice and self interest. They need to grow a pair.
 
iguanaman said:
He stated that Congress is the correct venue for prosecution of a President so he did make a referral.
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Hardly, but I understand your need to change the meanings of words to suit a narrative.
 
apdst said:
That's 1,000 partisan ****heads. Their opinion means absolutely nothing.
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They are 1000 bipartisan prosecutors who are sworn to uphold the rule of law and do so daily. There opinion means everything.
 
Craig234 said:
A big difference between them, is that for Watergate, the country had high standards for the president. It was widely held that the president 'could not be a crook'. Not acceptable.

And so, what Watergate was about, was a battle between those who suspected Nixon, more and more, and those who 'trusted' his denials of crimes.

What happened over time, was that more and more evidence was uncovered, and Nixon denied more and more. As the evidence grew, Nixon took more drastic measures; he fired the investigator, and lost his top officials, trying to say 'ok, they made mistakes, but the president did not'.

He hung on as long as he could, and kept enough support to stay in office, until the tapes finally showed how he had been badly lying all along and most of his support ended - almost all the Congress, though about a quarter of the public still supported him.

A difference is that the trump supporting part of the country today Just. Does. Not. Give. A. Crap about his crimes. The standards are no longer the same. trump can do ten times the crimes of Nixon, and get a response from nearly half the country of 'good, that upsets Democrats'.

Democrats are following the same play of investigate, get evidence, prove crimes, and they're wasting their time with these people - and the Republicans in Congress follow the 90% Republican approval rating, not the facts.

So the situation has simply changed. Speaking of tapes, when the Hollywood Access tape came out, the initial reaction was, 'that ends trump's candidacy, he can't be elected' - and then he was elected.

So Democrats might be 'right' on the issue of trump's crimes, but the politics aren't the same. The country cared about the crimes and turned on the president they had recently re-elected by 49 states and left him with historic low approval under 30%.

Today, nearly half the country does not care. At all. And so, the whole situation, the politics, the rule of law, have changed. Guilt of crimes currently does not mean loss of support, forced resignation, accountability. Why that is is an issue for the country to deal with.
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You're wrong. When Trump's "crimes" are proven by believable documentation rather than the "He's Trump he must be dirty" bull**** you and your ilk seem to believe and peddle he's be dealt with appropriate. But suppositions, hallucinations, and mental aberrations caused by Trump Derangement Syndrome doing carry any weight.
 
hanger4 said:
Hardly, but I understand your need to change the meanings of words to suit a narrative.
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LOL You think a prosecutor can make a referral to the DOJ about a sitting President? Hardly.
 
iguanaman said:
They are 1000 bipartisan prosecutors who are sworn to uphold the rule of law and do so daily. There opinion means everything.
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On the one hand, we have a mob that is trump's cult, who worship him and support him doing any crime he wants (what other presidential candidate ever told their supporters they would not leave him if he committed murder?). On the other, we have the dedicated cream of our nation's crop of DoJ officials, of both parties, who did the public service of using their expertise to hold a criminal president accountable.
 
Craig234 said:
A big difference between them, is that for Watergate, the country had high standards for the president. It was widely held that the president 'could not be a crook'. Not acceptable.

And so, what Watergate was about, was a battle between those who suspected Nixon, more and more, and those who 'trusted' his denials of crimes.

What happened over time, was that more and more evidence was uncovered, and Nixon denied more and more. As the evidence grew, Nixon took more drastic measures; he fired the investigator, and lost his top officials, trying to say 'ok, they made mistakes, but the president did not'.

He hung on as long as he could, and kept enough support to stay in office, until the tapes finally showed how he had been badly lying all along and most of his support ended - almost all the Congress, though about a quarter of the public still supported him.

A difference is that the trump supporting part of the country today Just. Does. Not. Give. A. Crap about his crimes. The standards are no longer the same. trump can do ten times the crimes of Nixon, and get a response from nearly half the country of 'good, that upsets Democrats'.

Democrats are following the same play of investigate, get evidence, prove crimes, and they're wasting their time with these people - and the Republicans in Congress follow the 90% Republican approval rating, not the facts.

So the situation has simply changed. Speaking of tapes, when the Hollywood Access tape came out, the initial reaction was, 'that ends trump's candidacy, he can't be elected' - and then he was elected.

So Democrats might be 'right' on the issue of trump's crimes, but the politics aren't the same. The country cared about the crimes and turned on the president they had recently re-elected by 49 states and left him with historic low approval under 30%.

Today, nearly half the country does not care. At all. And so, the whole situation, the politics, the rule of law, have changed. Guilt of crimes currently does not mean loss of support, forced resignation, accountability. Why that is is an issue for the country to deal with.
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Russiagate is not like Watergate. With Watergate the more evidence that came out the more the evidence showed Nixon's guilty involvement. With Russiagate the more evidence that comes out the more the evidence shows how guilty democrats tried to frame and impeach Trump over a Russian conspiracy lie they invented.
 
marke said:
Russiagate is not like Watergate. With Watergate the more evidence that came out the more the evidence showed Nixon's guilty involvement. With Russiagate the more evidence that comes out the more the evidence shows how guilty democrats tried to frame and impeach Trump over a Russian conspiracy lie they invented.
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No, actually, the characters of Nixon and trump are similar (even their ally, Roger Stone); the crimes of obstruction are very similar; their lying denials are similar; the evidence is similar (some of trump's obstruction is on videotape). The difference is the one I pointed out - that the public and media have changed, to having standards for a president, to completely supporting crimes by a president. That's the difference.
 
apdst said:
Mueller stated, under oath, that there was no determination made that Trump obstructed justice.
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Check out the exchange between Nadler and Mueller. Pretty clear. But you decide. Read the relevant parts of the investigation and testimony including the "multiple acts by the president" Nadler spoke of. You don't need a degree from Trump University to figure this out.
 
marke said:
Russiagate is not like Watergate. With Watergate the more evidence that came out the more the evidence showed Nixon's guilty involvement. With Russiagate the more evidence that comes out the more the evidence shows how guilty democrats tried to frame and impeach Trump over a Russian conspiracy lie they invented.
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LOL Read the Muller report. Every dirty deed Trump was accused of was verified as fact and multiple counts of felony obstruction of justice were added. To me a candidate who knowingly welcomes help in an election by our biggest adversary is a traitor of the worst kind. He gives comfort to the enemy every time he calls the Russia investigation a hoax or a witch hunt.
 
Craig234 said:
I both don't see the media attacking trump night after night on this stuff, nor do we have the same media environment we did then, when there were three main networks and newspapers people got their news from, not like the politically sculptured news much of the country gets now, where sources like Fox would do nothing but defend trump.

We do have some hope some new stories - like when they get his tax returns - will have an impact.
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Good points.
 
Bullseye said:
You're wrong. When Trump's "crimes" are proven by believable documentation rather than the "He's Trump he must be dirty" bull**** you and your ilk seem to believe and peddle he's be dealt with appropriate. But suppositions, hallucinations, and mental aberrations caused by Trump Derangement Syndrome doing carry any weight.
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The Mueller report does exactly what you require. Perhaps you think it is a hallucination? You might as well face it if Trump giving aid and comfort to the enemy (by calling the Russia investigation a witch hunt or a hoax) nearly daily doesn't bother you nothing will. He could shoot someone in cold blood and you would not hesitate to defend him.
 
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iguanaman said:
The Mueller report does exactly what you require. Perhaps you think it is a hallucination?
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Have you met a single trumpista who has read the report, and done anything but quote trump, Barr and Fox attacking it?
 
iguanaman said:
The Mueller report does exactly what you require. Perhaps you think it is a hallucination?
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LOL, how sad you still don't see the writing on the wall; even many hard core libs understand that Mueller's testimony shredded any implication of Trump's guilt. The only hallucinations are you guys wet dreams about "getting Trump". Do you need a towel.
 
Craig234 said:
A big difference between them, is that for Watergate, the country had high standards for the president. It was widely held that the president 'could not be a crook'. Not acceptable.

And so, what Watergate was about, was a battle between those who suspected Nixon, more and more, and those who 'trusted' his denials of crimes.

What happened over time, was that more and more evidence was uncovered, and Nixon denied more and more. As the evidence grew, Nixon took more drastic measures; he fired the investigator, and lost his top officials, trying to say 'ok, they made mistakes, but the president did not'.

He hung on as long as he could, and kept enough support to stay in office, until the tapes finally showed how he had been badly lying all along and most of his support ended - almost all the Congress, though about a quarter of the public still supported him.

A difference is that the trump supporting part of the country today Just. Does. Not. Give. A. Crap about his crimes. The standards are no longer the same. trump can do ten times the crimes of Nixon, and get a response from nearly half the country of 'good, that upsets Democrats'.

Democrats are following the same play of investigate, get evidence, prove crimes, and they're wasting their time with these people - and the Republicans in Congress follow the 90% Republican approval rating, not the facts.

So the situation has simply changed. Speaking of tapes, when the Hollywood Access tape came out, the initial reaction was, 'that ends trump's candidacy, he can't be elected' - and then he was elected.

So Democrats might be 'right' on the issue of trump's crimes, but the politics aren't the same. The country cared about the crimes and turned on the president they had recently re-elected by 49 states and left him with historic low approval under 30%.

Today, nearly half the country does not care. At all. And so, the whole situation, the politics, the rule of law, have changed. Guilt of crimes currently does not mean loss of support, forced resignation, accountability. Why that is is an issue for the country to deal with.
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To the contrary. The spying on Trump was very much like Watergate, only with steroids and growth hormones.

In Watergate, there were some amateurs wearing plumbers outfits, keeping an door open with tape. Spygate used FBI and CIA operatives to plant stories and send reports. There was even an agent in the White House after the transition. Nixon's people could only dream of that level of sophistication.
 
hanger4 said:
Why not ?? It is part pf his job description.
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Mueller said that the DoJ guideline from Nixon prevented him from charging trump, and that other guidelines say he can't discuss whether someone is guilty if they aren't charged.
 
Craig234 said:
Mueller said that the DoJ guideline from Nixon prevented him from charging trump, and that other guidelines say he can't discuss whether someone is guilty if they aren't charged.
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Actually, he walked that back later in the day saying that the OLC guidelines were NOT the reason he didn't recommend prosecution.
 
Craig234 said:
Mueller said that the DoJ guideline from Nixon prevented him from charging trump, and that other guidelines say he can't discuss whether someone is guilty if they aren't charged.
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Then please explain why why put together a special prosecutor team if they could not come up with a result?
 
washunut said:
Then please explain why why put together a special prosecutor team if they could not come up with a result?
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That's actually a hell of a good question. What we know is that there were career people who had evidence and wanted to investigate, and when Comey was fired, Rosenstein decided what to do. Congress had ended the special prosecutor law. Why he decided to make a special counsel who couldn't determine whether trump committed a crime is a good question - but he did investigate a lot of other things, including a great investigation of Russian interference.
 
Craig234 said:
Mueller said that the DoJ guideline from Nixon prevented him from charging trump, and that other guidelines say he can't discuss whether someone is guilty if they aren't charged.
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I suggest you look up what a criminal referral is.
 
iguanaman said:
LOL Read the Muller report. Every dirty deed Trump was accused of was verified as fact and multiple counts of felony obstruction of justice were added. To me a candidate who knowingly welcomes help in an election by our biggest adversary is a traitor of the worst kind. He gives comfort to the enemy every time he calls the Russia investigation a hoax or a witch hunt.
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You are completely fooled. The constant propagandist democrat lying has had its intended effect on you.
 
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