• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A larger issue for trump in 2020

Logician Man said:
You misspoke........again.....and you ignore the fact Trump repeatedly lied about where his father was born. Why is that ? A little too inconvenient of a 'fact' for you ?
Click to expand...

I don't misspeak. I say exactly what I mean to say.
 
Craig234 said:
OK, we all know the country's basic makeup on whether they like or dislike trump.

But there's a larger issue that looms over voters - they want a president they feel will move the country in the right direction.

And I think trump has very strong opposition to that from his opponents, and very shallow support from his allies. More and more, it's not a 'vote for trump' things as much as a 'vote against the Democrat' thing, which is weaker.

trump made a lot of big promises - he's an outsider, a good businessman who will make the country rich, against corruption who will drain the swamp, that he'll 'make the country great'.

There's almost nothing to show for any of that. America isn't 'great' compared to before. It's continued a few positive trends, and taking some wrong turns. I defy anyone to show the country has change in a way that went to 'great' from before.

The Obama recovery has continued, a bit slower. Inequality has continued to increase. Trillions were redistributed to the rich in trump's main accomplishment. Some more Federalist Society plutocrats were put on the courts. trump has broken foreign policy after foreign policy, embracing the worst murderers and tyrants in the world, while breaking good treaties from the Iran deal to the Russian arms deal (which ends August 2).

He's reversed countless good regulations to protect the environment and the American people, and put the most corrupt and incompetent people in office when he could be bothered to even do that, setting records on unfilled and 'acting' officials, and officials convicted of crimes and leaving in scandal.

His 'drain the swamp' has been shows to be 'fill the ocean'. Most American are not benefiting from much of anything. Not even those harmful coal jobs, but not much in manufacturing or elsewhere, though unemployment has continued to drop. His tariffs are nothing but a harmful joke showing his ignorant bumbling.

In short, a vote for trump to all but his cult, who thinks he farts rainbows, is more and more clearly a vote for his narcissism, for incompetence, and for corruption. Not exactly a vote for the direction for the country voters want.

Right now, American think the country is on the right track for 37% and the wrong track for 58%.

trump just has nothing to run on other than his cult. Nothing. A 'good' economy in the aggregate - still giving all the growth to the rich - with a big crash looming. And he deserves none of the credit for the good part, doing nothing but staying out of the way, while shooting our deficits up to a new normal of $1 trillion to give more to the rich.

So, I think, like with the 'mood' around Carter, who was a far better president, that there's only downside for trump this election, his only chance being if enough voters hate the Democrat more than him, and that's weak.

He's lost what won in 2020 - the 'protest vote' against the 'establishment' represented by Hillary and Jeb, the thinking he would 'make the country great', the naive optimism. Now the curtain is pulled, the wizard exposed to all but the cult. His historic lows of always under 50%, never seen before, have still never risen to 50% after 2.5 years.

The main wildcard left is war, and I question whether even that can save him.
Click to expand...

The biggest issue next year, and one which concerns many voters, Trumps lack of integrity. No booming economy can paper over his lack of honesty.
 
LosAngelesAngel said:
~ Obama was so popular in some districts that he got more votes than there were registered voters ! :eek:´
Click to expand...

You do have a cite to back that up? Perhaps your cite is in the same place as Obamas Kenyan birth cerificate.
 
Jay59 said:
I seriously doubt that.


This is proof of why the first line is wrong. Trump has very strong opposition only from bedrock Democrats and liberal extremists. Those of milder persuasion are getting used to him and tired of the constant attacks on him.


True. Trump made promises and delivered. The swamp attacked him and he defeated it. All good.


There is a long list of things to show for it. Any reasonable person will acknowledge good on the economy, especially near zero unemployment and energy independence. Denuclearization is back in foreign policy. ISIS is defeated and all mostly eliminated. Iran has been forced from cover. Trade is normalized and the trade ratio is considerably improved. By any reasonable standard it has been a fruitful half term and the citizenry feels better about it, feels great, in fact.


He promised to remove regulations and he did. Some were so out of date, the underlying law no longer existed.


The swamp attacked him with an inappropriate and unprecedented special investigation. After over two years, Trump has defeated that sally and is now counterattacking. Stand by for news in about six weeks.


In short, a vote for Trump is a vote to continue winning. The choice has been shown as AOC and the Squad. Yikes. Undecided voters don't like socialism and they do like winners. Either way a vote for Trump.


That is changing. There is only so much manipulation that can be done to polls.


The Democrats have nothing but the anti-Trump cult and socialist extremism.


We haven't had a vote in 2020. The protest vote for Gary Johnson or Evan McMullin has been fully won over. Enthusiasm is much higher and Democrat enthusiasm is problematic


Trump has been reliably anti-war for decades. He will use the military, but as security or as a last resort. Nothing stands between him and reelection. Armed conflict would make it a certainty but he will avoid it with great tenacity.

Interesting collection of wishful thinking and party spin. Try looking around a bit more. Otherwise reality will bite you hard.
Click to expand...

But something does stand in Trumps way, its his lack of honesty. Its an inconvient truth his supporters ignore. Many Indies will not be ignoring that fact next year in Nov.
 
yankintx said:
The biggest issue next year, and one which concerns many voters, Trumps lack of integrity. No booming economy can paper over his lack of honesty.
Click to expand...

yankintx said:
But something does stand in Trumps way, its his lack of honesty. Its an inconvient truth his supporters ignore. Many Indies will not be ignoring that fact next year in Nov.
Click to expand...
Here is the fundamental rupture of understanding. These are both among Trump's primary assets. Trump is a promise keeper.
 
Jay59 said:
Here is the fundamental rupture of understanding. These are both among Trump's primary assets. Trump is a promise keeper.
Click to expand...

How does his lack of integrity have anything to do with his promises. Ah you pick choose the truths, ignore the lies. The man lies like a rug. Buy hey, you dont have to explain your low leadership standards. It is possible to have a candidate who can keep promises and have integrity.
 
joko104 said:
I've often noted that most Democrat "progressives" such as you never hesitate to rant the diametric opposite rant, literally total exact contradictions - because it is only the ranting - not the reason - that matters.

You did it in the same sentence! :lamo

1. Ranting the President is embracing the worst murderers and tyrants in the world - and then ranting in the SAME sentence exactly the opposite that

2. President Trump broke treaties with the worst murderers and tyrants in the world that Democrat Obama had embraced with treaties.

Posting total contradicts is more the rule than exception for many progressive Democrats (corporate fascists in my opinion) on the forum.
Click to expand...

And you not being able to recognize the difference is exactly why you were so easily drawn into a cult...
 
I hope he runs on the economy. Those unemployment numbers are great.
My local grocery store lady who I speak to regularly was an avid Trump supporter until she had to go get a 2nd job at 60. She told me the other day I don't watch any news anymore I can't....its all bull****. I have never in my life voted Democrat but this upcoming election she plans to vote a straight D ticket and she will never forget having to now work 2 jobs just to maintain some standard of living.
Lots of people out there like this woman. They are quiet they feel let down. They won't March or protest but they will vote.
 
Mycroft said:
I don't misspeak. I say exactly what I mean to say.
Click to expand...

And , evidently, what you don't mean to say, or better put, refuse to say....like why there is any sane, rational reason Trump would repeatedly lie about where his father was born...Right ?
 
yankintx said:
The biggest issue next year, and one which concerns many voters, Trumps lack of integrity. No booming economy can paper over his lack of honesty.
Click to expand...

But I have to say, I don't think the president's lack of integrity or honesty is enough to cost them an election, if the voters are happy with where they are moving the country. If you could have trump (or another Republican with terrible policies), or a Democrat who lied a lot but you felt had policies good for the country, who would you vote for?
 
Middle_Ground said:
I hope he runs on the economy. Those unemployment numbers are great.
My local grocery store lady who I speak to regularly was an avid Trump supporter until she had to go get a 2nd job at 60. She told me the other day I don't watch any news anymore I can't....its all bull****. I have never in my life voted Democrat but this upcoming election she plans to vote a straight D ticket and she will never forget having to now work 2 jobs just to maintain some standard of living.
Lots of people out there like this woman. They are quiet they feel let down. They won't March or protest but they will vote.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. On the one hand, millions of these people were easily misled by trump, with big promises. But the flip side of that is when he didn't deliver on their crazy expectations, they will lose any support for him from that, and he can't easily get it back - he has a record now, and the competitor now gets to make the big promises. That's the problem with his base being less rational, informed people - it can cut both ways.

Their 'voting for trump, he promised a pony and coal jobs' can easily become 'no pony, no coal jobs, screw trump'. Sadly, the larger effect of con job's like trump's is to embitter these people to not trust politicians and government generally - which feeds into the hands of the plutocrats who hate democracy.
 
Craig234 said:
OK, we all know the country's basic makeup on whether they like or dislike trump.

<<<snipped to accommodate character count limitation>>>>

He's lost what won in 2020 - the 'protest vote' against the 'establishment' represented by Hillary and Jeb, the thinking he would 'make the country great', the naive optimism. Now the curtain is pulled, the wizard exposed to all but the cult. His historic lows of always under 50%, never seen before, have still never risen to 50% after 2.5 years.

The main wildcard left is war, and I question whether even that can save him.
Click to expand...

Trump's report card looks pretty damn good as his approval ratings indicate. His approval ratings are higher than Obama's in almost every category even though the job approval ratings indicate a lot of people don't like the President personally though even those continue to edge upward. And he is earning those approval ratings in the face of the most maliciously vicious press, social media, message boards etc. possible.

Despite this from Pew Research Center:
. . .The total number of Americans who think the economy is better under Trump grew to 71 percent in the Wall Street Journal poll, up from 64 percent in July 2016. The number of people who don’t think the economy improved dropped from 36 percent in July 2016 to 25 percent in June 2018. . .​

There is this:
. . .A Pew Research Center analysis of more than 3,000 stories during the first 100 days of his presidency across 24 different media organizations found that reporting on Trump had been the most negative compared to other presidents over the past 25 years.

Compared to the three previous presidents, Trump earned his approval rating in a particularly hostile media environment. Coverage of Trump during his first 60 days in office was three times more negative than of Obama and twice as negative as coverage of presidents George Bush and Bill Clinton, according to the Pew Research Center.

A survey by the Media Research Center showed that news coverage on ABC, CBS, and NBC was more than 90 percent negative in September, October, and November last year.

Despite the negative coverage, Trump’s overall approval rating has surpassed that of Obama at the same time in his term in nearly every daily Rasmussen poll conducted since early February this year. Rasmussen is the only nationally recognized poll tracking presidential approval rating on a daily basis.

Positive economic indicators are in line with people’s perceptions of the economy. The latest jobs report tracked unemployment at 3.8 percent, the lowest level since the turn of the century. For the first time on record, the Labor Department reported this month that there are more open jobs in America than there are job seekers. . .​

Yes the percentage of those who refuse to give the President any credit has risen some in recent months, but that is because of butt hurt Democrats constantly barraging them with "It's an Obama recovery!" Which means that though they spent eight years--EIGHT YEARS!!!--telling us that everything good that happened in the Obama Administration was his doing and everything bad that happened was George W. Bush's fault.

And now we have to listen to everything bad that happens in the Trump Administration is Trump's fault and Obama gets the credit for everything good.

They have no shame.
 
marke said:
America is fast becoming a nation of uncivilized heathen barbarians. Democrats attempted to cast God off their platform in 2012 and the secular state has attempted to build a wall of separation between Christians and government. The uncivilized majority of Americans do not want creation taught in schools or the ten commandments posted in courtrooms. Democrats scream and yell at good people and encourage Antifa mobs to loot, kill and destroy like the devil.

Trump's biggest danger in 2020 is massive democrat voter fraud, and he seems unconcerned, which may be his and America's downfall.
Click to expand...

Crazy marke. Democrats don't want religion and government mixed - they want freedom of religion. Religion belongs with people, not the government, in churches not schools and courthouses. Christians have freedom as do others. You don't understand that.

'Massive Democrat (sic) (the word is Democratic, get literate) fraud' is a lie made up by Republicans to not admit they lost. And you fall for it.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Trump's report card looks pretty damn good as his approval ratings indicate. His approval ratings are higher than Obama's in almost every category even though the job approval ratings indicate a lot of people don't like the President personally though even those continue to edge upward. And he is earning those approval ratings in the face of the most maliciously vicious press, social media, message boards etc. possible.

Despite this from Pew Research Center:
. . .The total number of Americans who think the economy is better under Trump grew to 71 percent in the Wall Street Journal poll, up from 64 percent in July 2016. The number of people who don’t think the economy improved dropped from 36 percent in July 2016 to 25 percent in June 2018. . .​

There is this:
. . .A Pew Research Center analysis of more than 3,000 stories during the first 100 days of his presidency across 24 different media organizations found that reporting on Trump had been the most negative compared to other presidents over the past 25 years.

Compared to the three previous presidents, Trump earned his approval rating in a particularly hostile media environment. Coverage of Trump during his first 60 days in office was three times more negative than of Obama and twice as negative as coverage of presidents George Bush and Bill Clinton, according to the Pew Research Center.

A survey by the Media Research Center showed that news coverage on ABC, CBS, and NBC was more than 90 percent negative in September, October, and November last year.

Despite the negative coverage, Trump’s overall approval rating has surpassed that of Obama at the same time in his term in nearly every daily Rasmussen poll conducted since early February this year. Rasmussen is the only nationally recognized poll tracking presidential approval rating on a daily basis.

Positive economic indicators are in line with people’s perceptions of the economy. The latest jobs report tracked unemployment at 3.8 percent, the lowest level since the turn of the century. For the first time on record, the Labor Department reported this month that there are more open jobs in America than there are job seekers. . .​

Yes the percentage of those who refuse to give the President any credit has risen some in recent months, but that is because of butt hurt Democrats constantly barraging them with "It's an Obama recovery!" Which means that though they spent eight years--EIGHT YEARS!!!--telling us that everything good that happened in the Obama Administration was his doing and everything bad that happened was George W. Bush's fault.

And now we have to listen to everything bad that happens in the Trump Administration is Trump's fault and Obama gets the credit for everything good.

They have no shame.
Click to expand...

Your circular logic is that the worst president in history who is utterly incompetent, corrupt, and ill, gets accurate coverage which is negative, and that's unfair because you falsely deny the truth about him.

trump has done nothing but damage the continuing Obama recovery; he has done nothing to improve it; but it's continued in spite of him. He's simply been in office while that happens. So yes, in ways, that continuing has led to a 'better economy' even while trump has done things lke skyrocket the deficit to $1 trillion.

The basic thing is, you can't handle the truth. You have preformed cultists opinions that trump bad, Obama good and so you think the truth is biased.

You simply cannot sort out the false and true because you have nothing but cult worship to go on. Does Obama deserve credit for something, or is he wrongly credited instead of trump? All you know is the cult.
 
Craig234 said:
Crazy marke. Democrats don't want religion and government mixed - they want freedom of religion. Religion belongs with people, not the government, in churches not schools and courthouses. Christians have freedom as do others. You don't understand that.
Click to expand...

Leftist barbarians want God separated from public life in America.

'Massive Democrat (sic) (the word is Democratic, get literate) fraud' is a lie made up by Republicans to not admit they lost. And you fall for it.
Click to expand...

Democrats claim democrats do not commit voter fraud with the same zeal bank robbers claim they don't rob banks.
 
marke said:
Leftist barbarians want God separated from public life in America.
Click to expand...

"Public life" is vague. If you mean some big public gathering, you're wrong. If you mean the government endorsing one religion, yes, as I said, Democrats don't want to put religion under government.

Democrats claim democrats do not commit voter fraud with the same zeal bank robbers claim they don't rob banks.
Click to expand...

You lie with more zeal than they do.
 
Craig234 said:
Your circular logic is that the worst president in history who is utterly incompetent, corrupt, and ill, gets accurate coverage which is negative, and that's unfair because you falsely deny the truth about him.

trump has done nothing but damage the continuing Obama recovery; he has done nothing to improve it; but it's continued in spite of him. He's simply been in office while that happens. So yes, in ways, that continuing has led to a 'better economy' even while trump has done things lke skyrocket the deficit to $1 trillion.

The basic thing is, you can't handle the truth. You have preformed cultists opinions that trump bad, Obama good and so you think the truth is biased.

You simply cannot sort out the false and true because you have nothing but cult worship to go on. Does Obama deserve credit for something, or is he wrongly credited instead of trump? All you know is the cult.
Click to expand...

The really alarming thing is that you might possibly actually believe that.
 
Middle_Ground said:
I hope he runs on the economy. Those unemployment numbers are great.
My local grocery store lady who I speak to regularly was an avid Trump supporter until she had to go get a 2nd job at 60. She told me the other day I don't watch any news anymore I can't....its all bull****. I have never in my life voted Democrat but this upcoming election she plans to vote a straight D ticket and she will never forget having to now work 2 jobs just to maintain some standard of living.
Lots of people out there like this woman. They are quiet they feel let down. They won't March or protest but they will vote.
Click to expand...

The Right doesn't want to talk about the fact that we're having minimum wage discussions precisely because most of the new jobs being created pay that or very close to it.

If we had a proper economy for an industrialized free western nation, minimum wage wouldn't be an issue because very few people would KEEP such a job for more than about six months or a year max. And that's because most minimum wage jobs would be "starter jobs" for kids or easy jobs for seniors who are looking to augment their retirement money.

The very reason WHY we're talking about minimum wage being "livable" is because that's what most of these new jobs are, and they entail a level of effort and productivity that has NEVER historically been demanded of such wages. Window washers...minimum wage, and rightly so, at least at ground level anyway.
Janitors, fast food workers, these are the typical minimum wage jobs, the kind of jobs even an IDIOT can do.

And yet forty percent of working Americans don't have enough savings on hand to cover a four hundred dollar emergency.

Ask a hispanic about those figures and suddenly that number arches up to around 65%.

Yes, I hope Trump does try to run his campaign on this so called remarkable economy, as I am hearing the same complaints from people I interact with every single day. They're struggling to make ends meet in this so called sparkling economy, and they're working full time and more than full time.

And I hope he continues to try to paint Democrats as squawking hysterical social justice warriors, because that trope is already threadbare, so much so that even an idiot like Biden is aware of it.

"The stock market is booming, but you don't feel it."

Just 31% of people ages 18 to 29 owned stocks on average between 2009 and 2017, according to Gallup.
That's down from 42% during the eight years before.

See my sig below for an example of how Trump supporters talk about the middle class.
 
Luther said:
Why not?

It was only 7 months ago and is the closest thing we got?


Take New Mexico. More Hispanics than any other state right? And for years , I kept hearing how they hate illegal immigration?(Rolling eyes)

The DEMOCRAT Senator won Big time

He got a D rating from NumbersUSA(HELLO)
Click to expand...

so you are going to ignore the article that came out after the mid-terms and things have changed got it.
have a nice day.
 
Trump wants to hand over our intelligence community to a kiss ass toadie named John Ratcliffe - congressman from Texas. His feature that got him the nomination is unwavering loyalty to the little tin idol that is Trump. Ratcliffe is a loyal Trumpkin who attacked Mueller and made up nonsense about Meiller lacking authority for Volume II of his report. Ratcliffe is a crazed Trumpkin who has drunk the kool-aid and represents a major decline in our security and safety.

Trump must be removed ASAP by any legal mean necessary as he is the greatest threat to America since the end of WWII.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
The Right doesn't want to talk about the fact that we're having minimum wage discussions precisely because most of the new jobs being created pay that or very close to it.

If we had a proper economy for an industrialized free western nation, minimum wage wouldn't be an issue because very few people would KEEP such a job for more than about six months or a year max. And that's because most minimum wage jobs would be "starter jobs" for kids or easy jobs for seniors who are looking to augment their retirement money.

The very reason WHY we're talking about minimum wage being "livable" is because that's what most of these new jobs are, and they entail a level of effort and productivity that has NEVER historically been demanded of such wages. Window washers...minimum wage, and rightly so, at least at ground level anyway.
Janitors, fast food workers, these are the typical minimum wage jobs, the kind of jobs even an IDIOT can do.

And yet forty percent of working Americans don't have enough savings on hand to cover a four hundred dollar emergency.

Ask a hispanic about those figures and suddenly that number arches up to around 65%.

Yes, I hope Trump does try to run his campaign on this so called remarkable economy, as I am hearing the same complaints from people I interact with every single day. They're struggling to make ends meet in this so called sparkling economy, and they're working full time and more than full time.

And I hope he continues to try to paint Democrats as squawking hysterical social justice warriors, because that trope is already threadbare, so much so that even an idiot like Biden is aware of it.

"The stock market is booming, but you don't feel it."

Just 31% of people ages 18 to 29 owned stocks on average between 2009 and 2017, according to Gallup.
That's down from 42% during the eight years before.

See my sig below for an example of how Trump supporters talk about the middle class.
Click to expand...

Yeah in the real world the economy for lots of folks is not good. On paper the numbers look great, fantastic. But out in the real world lots of people feeling left behind.
I have a firefighter friend he's hilarious he calls the tax whatever one of the greatest scams.
He wants to know how he got $1632.78 extra in his paycheck and instead of getting a $2000 refund he had to pay a little over $500 and that's a tax cut? For who?
He says the numbers so much I have them memorized, he was a quasi, reluctant Trump guy you know one the ones willing to give him a chance doesn't care about the tweets doesn't watch the news.
He did say until all the current Republicans are out of office he would not vote for another GOP like he told me Trumps one man on an ego trip but the rest of them especially in leadership can't be trusted ever again.
 
Middle_Ground said:
Yeah in the real world the economy for lots of folks is not good. On paper the numbers look great, fantastic. But out in the real world lots of people feeling left behind.
I have a firefighter friend he's hilarious he calls the tax whatever one of the greatest scams.
He wants to know how he got $1632.78 extra in his paycheck and instead of getting a $2000 refund he had to pay a little over $500 and that's a tax cut? For who?
He says the numbers so much I have them memorized, he was a quasi, reluctant Trump guy you know one the ones willing to give him a chance doesn't care about the tweets doesn't watch the news.
He did say until all the current Republicans are out of office he would not vote for another GOP like he told me Trumps one man on an ego trip but the rest of them especially in leadership can't be trusted ever again.
Click to expand...

It IS of PRIME IMPORTANCE for Democrats (and all liberals) to bear in mind that a LOT OF TRUMP VOTERS WERE INDEED..."quasi, reluctant Trump guy(s) you know one the ones...willing to give him a chance doesn't care about the tweets doesn't watch the news."

Are you listening, Joe Biden??
Of course he isn't, which is why he should not be thought of as the presumptive nominee.
Biden is currently in the lead because he's a reflexive "default" until someone better raises their head.
That is not a high bar.
And just harping on dregs and deplorables, or Trump, isn't going to win us an election.

The point is, unlike hardcore Trump supporters, this segment is fluid, and it is larger than Trump's base.
And they can be easily peeled off if the Democrats offer someone who can offer the image of a real statesman.
The best criticism one can give is to say that this is a country, not reality TV, and that running a country like a reality TV show is quite simply a departure from reality.
We must be ready to offer some reality checks that set us above Trump.
Comfortable, competent, capable, normal, reassuring.
We need to be everything Trump isn't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom