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Thread: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

  1. #81
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    Re: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypothetical View Post
    Hogwash. if ANYTHING you are seeing how much power we had let our enemies attain , and now being used because Trump is standing up to them.

    the sanctions that Iran is railing against are the plan. much more harmful to their regime than the nothing agreement we had.

    WTF do you think Iran is being aggressive? because they love Trumps policies? because it helps them?

    if we are not careful we won;t have enough power to stop nations like china from ruling... everything essentially, and then you won't have the ability to make your dislike known because your freedoms will be nil.
    Yes Trump is helping that "hard liners" in Iran who have said all along that they cannot trust the U.S. So you desire an "aggressive" Iran that has been given a good reason to resume their nuclear weapons program? No wonder you like Trump. China is stronger than ever now and is being driven to a closer alliance with Russia. I suppose you like that too. The entire world hates us, what could go wrong...
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
    - Voltaire

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    Re: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    At the end of the day, aren't voters responsible for the candidates they pick?

    A Corporation can donate all it wants, but how does would that sway me?

    I believe we get the candidates we get because as voters, we are lazy.

    That is the real issue at play, not how many dollars are raised and from whom.
    It was the two major parties that choose their candidates. Independents which make up 46% of the electorate had no say in whom those parties chose unless you happen to live in an open primary state. Out of approximately 240 million eligible voters, 30 million voted in the Democratic Primaries with another 30 or so million in the Republican primaries. That's roughly 13% deciding on Clinton, another 13% deciding on Trump, 26% of Americans decided whom the rest, 74% would have to choose from in Nov 2016.

    According to Gallup 25% of all Americans disliked and didn't want neither Trump nor Clinton. This included 54% of all independents. Why should they vote? There's no candidate their they want to become president.

    One in Four Americans Dislike Both Presidential Candidates
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  3. #83
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    Re: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

    I think voter turnout in the U.S. answers the basic question in the thread title. In other words, what "if"?

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    Re: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The situation is made much worse by the federal government granting itself ever more power. Of the 535 congress critters no citizen may vote for (or against) more than 3 of them, yet campaign cash donors can (and do) influence the chances of success for any (all?) of them.
    In any normal midterm or congressional election, only around 35 districts are competitive where there is a chance of switching parties. 2018 wasn't normal due to the extra large retirements from Republicans. But due to gerrymandering and majority minority districts, 35 seats is all that is up for grabs normally.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig234 View Post
    If only there were one group of politicians who organized, who posed a challenge to one of the two main parties - wouldn't it even be nicer if they were already strong enough to have the biggest caucus in Congress with about 80 members, who opposed this plutocracy and actually did support the people? What if they were called the progressive caucus in the Democratic Party? You forgot to mention the only solution we have to the problem.
    I don't see a solution. Republicans and Democrats write our election laws and they do so as a mutual protection act. If there is one thing the two major parties agree on, it's no viable third party will ever rise to challenge them.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I don't see a solution. Republicans and Democrats write our election laws and they do so as a mutual protection act. If there is one thing the two major parties agree on, it's no viable third party will ever rise to challenge them.
    Then you are completely uninformed about what progressives are. You don't understand the difference between progressive Democrats and non-progressive Democrats. That is politically illiterate today not to understand the most important faction after 'Democrat' and 'Republican'.

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    Re: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    No it isn't.

    For the 5001th time. In a democracy each person votes on every issue. The town meetings of old, and various groups such as Amish today democracy is the political model. The problem is that democracies become unworkable as they grow larger.

    So we elect people to go do our voting for us. That's called a representative republic. That's us.

    By way of demonstration. Today's question: How many people in the US voted for President Trump? For Hillary?
    Clueless and you don't get a 5001st time.

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    Re: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig234 View Post
    Then you are completely uninformed about what progressives are. You don't understand the difference between progressive Democrats and non-progressive Democrats. That is politically illiterate today not to understand the most important faction after 'Democrat' and 'Republican'.
    Both parties have their factions. The Republicans their tea party, the Democrats their progressives. I'm in-between them, neither far right or far left.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  9. #89
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    Re: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    No it isn't.
    And for the 5002nd time, stop using a 2500 Athenian model as a ruse for the rubes when the Constitution itself enshrines the democratic election of representatives, and that is the generally accepted model of democracy in a constitutional republic.

    de·moc·ra·cy
    /dəˈmäkrəsē/
    Learn to pronounce
    noun
    a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
    In a representative democracy the citizens elect representatives from among themselves. These representatives meet to form a governing body, such as a legislature. In a constitutional democracy the powers of the majority are exercised within the framework of a representative democracy, but the constitution limits the majority and protects the minority, usually through the enjoyment by all of certain individual rights, e.g. freedom of speech, or freedom of association.
    Karl Popper defined democracy in contrast to dictatorship or tyranny, thus focusing on opportunities for the people to control their leaders and to oust them without the need for a revolution.

    The more you pretend we are not a democracy, the more you empower the polar opposite, an aristocracy.
    Pro Tip: YOU are NOT a member of the aristocracy and you never will be.

    Variants
    The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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    Re: What if the people of the US stop supporting democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Both parties have their factions. The Republicans their tea party, the Democrats their progressives. I'm in-between them, neither far right or far left.
    Words saying nothing.

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