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ICE Nearly Twice As Favorable As The Squad

veritas1 said:
All the Dem candidates already side with The Squad. Poor old Joe couldn't lay on the self abasement thick enough or reverse his long held positions fast enough in order to please them. Of course, the party powers don't want Biden and will sink him one way or the other. They know he can't possibly beat Trump.
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Can't wait to see what Kamala has in store for Joe for the next debate.
 
Condor060 said:
If any democrat has a chance it would have to be Harris. Biden is done. He will never be the nominee now. Way to many back flips, comments about China, and his (oh, I ran out of time) debacle, the racism thing, his inability to think on his feet, and not left enough for the party. Warren was never even a consideration. She burned up whatever credibility she had long ago.

Harris is smart, and a go for the jugular kind of gal. She is (and can be) scrappy when she needs to be but she has some baggage that I don't think is sell-able. She wants to get rid of ICE, she will be pushing for tax payer funded free medical for Illegals, and the Kavanaugh fiasco isn't going to gander her any favor from the right or independent voters.

Coupled with running against (if it stays in place) a raging economy, unemployment numbers, stock market numbers, new job numbers, and if Trump gets a success with his China deal or Barr investigation into the FISA warrants I think it will be a bridge to far.

But what the hell do I know. My guess is as good as anyone elses.
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I thought Biden would be a lock for the nomination, but I agree it's looking more like Harris.
Agree with all your negatives about her and think she's a better prosecutor than politician. Her political bona fides will be scrutinized when it comes to how she got her start.
 
Acadia said:
I thought Biden would be a lock for the nomination, but I agree it's looking more like Harris.
Agree with all your negatives about her and think she's a better prosecutor than politician. Her political bona fides will be scrutinized when it comes to how she got her start.
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"How she got her start"?
 
Condor060 said:
I'm not sure about her cleaning up the stage with Trump. She is a scrapper but how does she do under pressure? We will see. I wouldn't underestimate Trumps ability to think on his feet. You have to remember, he will have had almost 4 years of public s**t slinging contest and about 40 years in the media spotlight.

He is not impervious by any account but she will be taking on a media monster and he doesn't let anything slip by. Less we forget how he turned questions around on the providers about calling women fat pigs and his answer was only Rosie O'Donald or his comment with Hillary about he'd put her in jail.

I think she has some fight in her but it will be a monumental task for her to defend any of the Democrat debate declarations with Trump on the stage.

I will tell you this, If they make it pay per view, I'll buy a ticket. Its going to be no holds barred knock down drag out eye gouging grandmaw slappin fight. You can take that to the bank.
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All good points, but I think she will be effective against Trump. But you're right, she's untested at this level.

Hopefully the Dem primary will become a rough & tumble ruckus, so that the eventual nominee emerges toughened, hardened, and with all their secrets exposed and now in the past.
 
Chomsky said:
This is an excellent post - IMHO - and I very much agree.

I think Harris is the best and most likely to succeed against Trump. She will no doubt clean-up the debate stage with him. But as you stated, she has to back-off on some of these extreme positions. It's one thing to be a medicare for all proponent, but quite another to get rid of private insurance companies! Yish! And abolish ICE? Yow!

You'd think as an lifetime States Attorney culminating in A.G., that she'd have more pragmatic sensibilities. It seems Cali States Attorneys are a breed unto themselves!
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Biden has reached his ceiling. There is very little moderate support for him to gain when the Ryans and Kolobuchar's drop out. Meanwhile, there is a mountain of center left vote out there for the taking as votes from Sanders, Harris, Warren, O'Rouke, Yang, Booker, Gabbard, and O'Rouke move towards one candidate, and it's hard for me to imagine how that movement doesn't eventually take him out.

Trump has a LOT of baggage to the point that a list here isn't necessary - we all know. He has a dozen extremist positions for the right Democratic attack dog to work with.
 
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Cardinal said:
I know I've beat this drum before, but Clinton wiped the stage with Trump during every debate. But that didn't make up for the fact that a lot of people didn't find her particularly likeable anyway.

I mean, don't get me wrong; the Democratic candidate should absolutely be required to be able to beat Trump in a debate. But when you're dealing with populism, that ain't enough.

As far as getting rid of private insurance, it's over a year out from the general election, and I see that position more as a sounding-board idea than anything. If the public gives a thumbs down to the idea, then she'll abandon it.
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I wouldn't say Clinton "wiped the stage" with Trump, but she did generally prevail, and your point is well taken. And you're right on the need for "personality" being needed.

I think Harris has far more personality that Clinton, and in addition she seems more direct. "Directness" is something HRC greatly lacked.

But when describing harris' attack abilities, I wasn't speaking of only the debate stage. I think she's take the fight to Trump through the media and body politic - as well.
 
Cardinal said:
I just hope that any liberal or left-leaning independent who stays home has the decency to not criticize a single thing the GOP does from that point on.
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Last election they didn't take anything for granted, so perhaps they did indeed learn from 2016.
 
Chomsky said:
All good points, but I think she will be effective against Trump. But you're right, she's untested at this level.

Hopefully the Dem primary will become a rough & tumble ruckus, so that the eventual nominee emerges toughened, hardened, and with all their secrets exposed and now in the past.
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I'm honestly unclear on what you think she's "untested" about. Simply debating in a general election debate? Is that it? Because that lady's been debating under pressure since the first critters walked out of the sea.
 
Acadia said:
I thought Biden would be a lock for the nomination, but I agree it's looking more like Harris.
Agree with all your negatives about her and think she's a better prosecutor than politician. Her political bona fides will be scrutinized when it comes to how she got her start.
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How'd she got her start??
 
Chomsky said:
I wouldn't say Clinton "wiped the stage" with Trump, but she did generally prevail, and your point is well taken. And you're right on the need for "personality" being needed.

I think Harris has far more personality that Clinton, and in addition she seems more direct. "Directness" is something HRC greatly lacked.

But when describing harris' attack abilities, I wasn't speaking of only the debate stage. I think she's take the fight to Trump through the media and body politic - as well.
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I wish I shared your optimism! Unless there is a major shake-up, I see a second term for Trump.
 
MovingPictures said:
Biden has reached his ceiling. There is very little moderate support for him to gain when the Ryans and Kolobuchar's drop out. Meanwhile, there is a mountain of center left vote out there for the taking as votes from Sanders, Harris, Warren, O'Rouke, Yang, Booker, Gabbard, and O'Rouke move towards one candidate, and it's hard for me to imagine how that movement doesn't eventually take him out.

Trump has a LOT of baggage to the point that a list here isn't necessary - we all know. He has a dozen extremist positions for the right Democratic attack dog to work with.
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It's been a long road to come to believe, brother. But believe, I do! ;)
 
Cardinal said:
I know I've beat this drum before, but Clinton wiped the stage with Trump during every debate. But that didn't make up for the fact that a lot of people didn't find her particularly likeable anyway.

I mean, don't get me wrong; the Democratic candidate should absolutely be required to be able to beat Trump in a debate. But when you're dealing with populism, that ain't enough.

As far as getting rid of private insurance, it's over a year out from the general election, and I see that position more as a sounding-board idea than anything. If the public gives a thumbs down to the idea, then she'll abandon it.
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Let's not forget that after the debates Comey went out and broke FBI policy to reveal an internal investigative matter, which heavily stigmatized Clinton. That erased all of her debate victories and reset the field in favor of Trump, just one week before the election.

It's hard for me to look back on that and not have contempt for Comey's incompetence.
 
Rexedgar said:
I wish I shared your optimism! Unless there is a major shake-up, I see a second term for Trump.
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I'm of the belief that of all the Dems, Harris stands the best chance to topple Trump. I'm not guaranteeing victory!
 
Cardinal said:
I'm honestly unclear on what you think she's "untested" about. Simply debating in a general election debate? Is that it? Because that lady's been debating under pressure since the first critters walked out of the sea.
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She's untested at the level of going toe-to-toe with Trump, both on the stage & through the media. Actually, none of the candidates have really tested their mettle against Trump. Pelosi has, but she's one of a very few. We've seen Trump eviscerate many, and until they go against him mano a mano, we'll never know if they're capable.
 
Chomsky said:
I'm of the belief that of all the Dems, Harris stands the best chance to topple Trump. I'm not guaranteeing victory!
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I will say this. In 2016 it seemed that Clinton thought no scandal could effect her electoral metrics, and they were proven terribly wrong when Comey's press announcement drove a stake through her campaigns heart enough to open the door for Trump to pull a nightmare upset.

This time around it seems that it's Trump and the RNC who are acting arrogant, by assuming nothing can be a death blow to their campaigns. That's why Trump is making these openly racist statements now. He assumes things will just sort themselves out.
 
Chomsky said:
She's untested at the level of going toe-to-toe with Trump, both on the stage & through the media. Actually, none of the candidates have really tested their mettle against Trump. Pelosi has, but she's one of a very few. We've seen Trump eviscerate many, and until they go against him mano a mano, we'll never know if they're capable.
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I would be surprised if none of them came to terms with the fact that he's a poo-slinging machine. Basically, consider this: you enter into one of those "real debates" that nobody around here actually does anymore, and you realize that your debate opponent is nothing more than a low-rent troll. But you can't simply leave the thread as you're being judged on your ability to argue your position.

How do you proceed?
 
Chomsky said:
She's untested at the level of going toe-to-toe with Trump, both on the stage & through the media. Actually, none of the candidates have really tested their mettle against Trump. Pelosi has, but she's one of a very few. We've seen Trump eviscerate many, and until they go against him mano a mano, we'll never know if they're capable.
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At that point it will be akin to shoving “all in!”

I agree that given the field, at this stage, Harris is probably the strongest. There is just something I can’t put my finger on that gives me pause.
 
Rexedgar said:
At that point it will be akin to shoving “all in!”

I agree that given the field, at this stage, Harris is probably the strongest. There is just something I can’t put my finger on that gives me pause.
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Probably the fact that she's been debating and grilling hostile witnesses since God was a kid.
 
MovingPictures said:
When there are enough candidates on stage to form a Jedi counsel, that doesn't surprise me.

Once the delusional and vanity canidates leave the money will get better for the survivors.
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Dumb question: do candidates that drop out give the money they've raised to the candidate that wins the Primary?
 
Cardinal said:
I would be surprised if none of them came to terms with the fact that he's a poo-slinging machine. Basically, consider this: you enter into one of those "real debates" that nobody around here actually does anymore, and you realize that your debate opponent is nothing more than a low-rent troll. But you can't simply leave the thread as you're being judged on your ability to argue your position.

How do you proceed?
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This all assumes Trump even shows up to the debates.
 
MovingPictures said:
This all assumes Trump even shows up to the debates.
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Well the premise of the last couple pages is that he does show. So the question remains: how do you proceed in a real debate when your opponent is a low rent troll?
 
MovingPictures said:
I will say this. In 2016 it seemed that Clinton thought no scandal could effect her electoral metrics, and they were proven terribly wrong when Comey's press announcement drove a stake through her campaigns heart enough to open the door for Trump to pull a nightmare upset.

This time around it seems that it's Trump and the RNC who are acting arrogant, by assuming nothing can be a death blow to their campaigns. That's why Trump is making these openly racist statements now. He assumes things will just sort themselves out.
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There were many things that combined to sink HRC, and the WikiLeaks emails also contributed greatly.

What made Comey's statement so deadly, was that it was delivered under the auspices of an official Attorney General prosecutorial announcement. This time around, Trump's lackey will be making the announcements. Do you doubt there will be some major announcement by Barr just in time to influence the election? I think it's likely.
 
Cardinal said:
Dumb question: do candidates that drop out give the money they've raised to the candidate that wins the Primary?
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Nope.

The left over money is either used to cover campaign costs, returned to the donors, or diverted to help some local races.

We'll see the real money in the spring of 2020.
 
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