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Thread: Implications of Medicare for All

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    Implications of Medicare for All

    When people discuss single-payer health care systems they hear about the massive increase in taxes, but those discussions never think through the real implications of single-payer. Implications include:

    • Everyone has health insurance for life. No more changing plans because you changed jobs or your employer decides to change the plan.
    • Employers are no longer concerned about providing health care at all. They are relieved of that cost and responsibility (unless the single payer plan requires them to pay into it).
    • The cost of Medicare, Medicaid and the VA get rolled into paying for the single-payer system. States will no longer be required to spend on health care for the poor. All veterans will be covered instead of the percentage that are now covered. There is no transition for insurance at age 65.
    • There will be a massive increase in the market for health care. Millions of jobs will be created. Admittedly many jobs with insurance companies will be lost but in general those folks will benefit from the increase in the health care market.
    • Providers no longer have to make deals with dozens of insurance companies. They only need to deal with one payer vastly reducing overhead costs for them.
    • People will be relieved of the cost of health care insurance, co-pays, co-insurance, deductibles. Their cost will be shifted from insurance to some sort of tax system.
    • Hospitals will reliably get paid.
    • A person's state of health will be irrelevant to the cost to them.
    • You can see any medical care provider you want. No more provider networks.
    • No more out of pocket costs for health care. (depending on the single-payer plan)
    • Overall health care costs will go down with reductions in administrative costs.
    • The country's general health will be better lowering the annual cost to the system.

    Estimates place the annual cost of health care in the US at $3.2 trillion.

    Estimates for the cost of single-payer are about $3-4 trillion annually. We already spend the money needed, we just have to figure out how we want to move the flow of dollars from insurance companies to the single-payer system.

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    A healthy America is a strong America, a more productive America.

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by manofknowledge View Post
    When people discuss single-payer health care systems they hear about the massive increase in taxes, but those discussions never think through the real implications of single-payer. Implications include:

    • Everyone has health insurance for life. No more changing plans because you changed jobs or your employer decides to change the plan.
    • Employers are no longer concerned about providing health care at all. They are relieved of that cost and responsibility (unless the single payer plan requires them to pay into it).
    • The cost of Medicare, Medicaid and the VA get rolled into paying for the single-payer system. States will no longer be required to spend on health care for the poor. All veterans will be covered instead of the percentage that are now covered. There is no transition for insurance at age 65.
    • There will be a massive increase in the market for health care. Millions of jobs will be created. Admittedly many jobs with insurance companies will be lost but in general those folks will benefit from the increase in the health care market.
    • Providers no longer have to make deals with dozens of insurance companies. They only need to deal with one payer vastly reducing overhead costs for them.
    • People will be relieved of the cost of health care insurance, co-pays, co-insurance, deductibles. Their cost will be shifted from insurance to some sort of tax system.
    • Hospitals will reliably get paid.
    • A person's state of health will be irrelevant to the cost to them.
    • You can see any medical care provider you want. No more provider networks.
    • No more out of pocket costs for health care. (depending on the single-payer plan)
    • Overall health care costs will go down with reductions in administrative costs.
    • The country's general health will be better lowering the annual cost to the system.

    Estimates place the annual cost of health care in the US at $3.2 trillion.

    Estimates for the cost of single-payer are about $3-4 trillion annually. We already spend the money needed, we just have to figure out how we want to move the flow of dollars from insurance companies to the single-payer system.
    If it’s Medicare for all will ALL have to pay for it?

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    If it’s Medicare for all will ALL have to pay for it?
    Yep, even the 1%. You're already paying into Medicare; btw.
    Watching tRumps Presidency has been like watching a bunch of blindfolded dizzy children play pin the tail on the donkey.
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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by manofknowledge View Post
    When people discuss single-payer health care systems they hear about the massive increase in taxes, but those discussions never think through the real implications of single-payer. Implications include:

    • Everyone has health insurance for life. No more changing plans because you changed jobs or your employer decides to change the plan.
    • Employers are no longer concerned about providing health care at all. They are relieved of that cost and responsibility (unless the single payer plan requires them to pay into it).
    • The cost of Medicare, Medicaid and the VA get rolled into paying for the single-payer system. States will no longer be required to spend on health care for the poor. All veterans will be covered instead of the percentage that are now covered. There is no transition for insurance at age 65.
    • There will be a massive increase in the market for health care. Millions of jobs will be created. Admittedly many jobs with insurance companies will be lost but in general those folks will benefit from the increase in the health care market.
    • Providers no longer have to make deals with dozens of insurance companies. They only need to deal with one payer vastly reducing overhead costs for them.
    • People will be relieved of the cost of health care insurance, co-pays, co-insurance, deductibles. Their cost will be shifted from insurance to some sort of tax system.
    • Hospitals will reliably get paid.
    • A person's state of health will be irrelevant to the cost to them.
    • You can see any medical care provider you want. No more provider networks.
    • No more out of pocket costs for health care. (depending on the single-payer plan)
    • Overall health care costs will go down with reductions in administrative costs.
    • The country's general health will be better lowering the annual cost to the system.

    Estimates place the annual cost of health care in the US at $3.2 trillion.

    Estimates for the cost of single-payer are about $3-4 trillion annually. We already spend the money needed, we just have to figure out how we want to move the flow of dollars from insurance companies to the single-payer system.
    Just one question. If Obama's plan that has skyrocketed in price can't be controlled, how are you going to control the price of this plan? How do you even know of the implementation cost. Who is going to control the pharmaceutical cost problems.
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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    If itís Medicare for all will ALL have to pay for it?
    That hasn't been determined yet but probably not. Many people cannot afford it. That is part of the point of having it. Current Medicare is paid for by FICA taxes. I support a straight forward premium graduated based on income and collected as a payroll tax where appropriate or as part of a quarterly income tax payment.

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    I'm definately pro universal health care, but single payer does concern me. First let me just fully think through some of your points though.

    Quote Originally Posted by manofknowledge View Post
    [*]Providers no longer have to make deals with dozens of insurance companies. They only need to deal with one payer vastly reducing overhead costs for them.
    Dealing with only one payer is a nice way of saying dealing with a monopoly. Take a look at what we're seeing in the education system where the government also has what is essentially a monopoly. Teachers need a union, and have had to strike just to get paid a fair wage. Good teachers can't really threaten to leave for better wages because there's really no where else to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by manofknowledge View Post
    [*]Hospitals will reliably get paid.
    They may get reliably paid, but will they get paid a fair wage? Will medicare for all reduce costs by using it's monopoly to force Hospitals to take payments that are less than what the market would demand?

    Quote Originally Posted by manofknowledge View Post
    [*]You can see any medical care provider you want. No more provider networks.
    It's possible however that some doctors won't be able to maintain their good level of service if medicare payments are too low. Some hospitals may be forced to shut down if profit margins are too low. They may try to get by with a smaller staff with fewer nurses which could lead to other issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by manofknowledge View Post
    [*]No more out of pocket costs for health care. (depending on the single-payer plan)
    If there's no burden for going to the doctor we could potentially see people going more frequently when they don't really need to. I don't think this is a serious issue, but it also means no reason to shop around for a good deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by manofknowledge View Post
    [*]Overall health care costs will go down with reductions in administrative costs.
    This may be true, but we'll still have an administrator...and only ONE administrator. What concerns me is that when people talk about medicare for all they assume some nice guy like Bernie Sanders will always be in charge of it. What happens if another **** head like Trump finds his way into office and puts Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos in charge of our one and only health care system.

    I again I point to teachers. Look at what some conservative states have done to teachers. Right now Republicans are fighting to prevent a single payer monopoly, but what will happen when their put in charge of administrating it?

    Healthcare costs will inevitably be higher in major cities where real estate prices are higher. I could see this being used as justification to close more of them down particularly in lower income(black neighborhoods).

    We definitely need further health care reform. I still think there are better things we could try before we go with a full blown single payer. I personally like the idea of a hybrid plan where medicare for all has a huge deductible. Let's say $20,000. Medicare would handle the worst case scenarios, but for more typical stuff most Americans would still want a private health insurance company. Since that company would only be required to cover up to $20k premiums and deductibles would be insanely cheap. If people wanted to try and get away with not having private insurance it would be significantly less risky.
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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    If it’s Medicare for all will ALL have to pay for it?
    We have a progressive tax system so inevitably the lion's share of the burden would be payed by the wealthy. Those who don't make enough money to pay taxes in the first place would be covered for free.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    We have a progressive tax system so inevitably the lion's share of the burden would be payed by the wealthy. Those who don't make enough money to pay taxes in the first place would be covered for free.
    Then we shouldn’t have it.

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    Then we shouldn’t have it.
    So you think people should just die if they're too poor to go to the doctor?

    Even under our old system people who couldn't afford health care generally got it, and it was paid for by increasing the costs for the rest of us. Under a single payer system we could actually reduce the number of people who were not contributing thereby lowering the costs overall.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

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