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Thread: Implications of Medicare for All

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    The Democrats aren't in office. Not likely to beat Trump. Even if they do gain office later, politicians make empty promises all the time.

    This isn't about politics. It is about the best possible healthcare and well being for every American. I don't have a crystal ball and won't make predictions, but the cost of healthcare insurance keeps rising in this nation, and the return on investment keeps reducing. Life spans are shortening, obesity is epidemic, associated health care costs keep rising, far greater than inflation for both insurance and provider care. Do you have a better solution? I'm willing to listen. My concern is for the well being of those who follow me after I pass. My family. I can afford the best possible healthcare, there is no guaranty they will be in a similar financial position. There is no reason why they can not benefit from the best possible healthcare and the best quality of a healthy life as all Americans should.
    Check with countries that have it. Everyone pays taxes. Everyone waits in line!

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    Check with countries that have it. Everyone pays taxes. Everyone waits in line!
    Here, one way or another, we all pay premiums. This is the United States. We are a can do nation, and we can conquer waiting lines. With a shift toward preventative care as them focus of our healthcare system, we might even be able to eliminate the need for any lines.



    Last night, I had the strangest dream, a dream of spending no more on war and all that money for healthcare. We need to make this dream a reality.

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Nothing is free, without cost. The healthcare insurance business has an annual net profit of $1.2 trillion annually, above costs. Blood money, your blood.
    In the most recent year for which we have data (2017), the total amount of money flowing through private health insurance from private premiums was $1.2 trillion. Most of that is passed through and gets paid out to health care providers. The total net cost of private health insurance (of which profit is a subset) was about $230 billion, or a little over 6.5% of our national health spending.

    If you need a visual of where the money is coming from and who it's flowing through and where it's ultimately going:


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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Condor060 View Post
    Just one question. If Obama's plan that has skyrocketed in price can't be controlled, how are you going to control the price of this plan? How do you even know of the implementation cost. Who is going to control the pharmaceutical cost problems.
    The problem with Obama's plan is that is still had a 'profit' interface (i.e. the insurance companies), and let the 'free market' control drug prices. Due ot the patents , that makes a monopoly, and there was also price fixing/gouging by the pharmaceutical companies. Cut out the 'for profit' middle man insurance companies, , and regulate the max price as drug based on the development/production costs, as well as getting rid of the price gouging and fixing that a number of the 'generic drug' companies did, and costs can be contained.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah Arendt
    "The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist."

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    The problem with Obama's plan is that is still had a 'profit' interface (i.e. the insurance companies), and let the 'free market' control drug prices. Due ot the patents , that makes a monopoly, and there was also price fixing/gouging by the pharmaceutical companies. Cut out the 'for profit' middle man insurance companies, , and regulate the max price as drug based on the development/production costs, as well as getting rid of the price gouging and fixing that a number of the 'generic drug' companies did, and costs can be contained.
    Oh I don't doubt how to fix it, thats common sense. What I am saying is it will never happen under a government controlled program on a scale this elaborate. Not even possible. I love how Bernie fluffs this idea up with how other countries are so gifted to have incorporated these programs but when you dig just a bit deeper you find out the tax result of such a program.

    I don't want my government telling me if I qualify for a certain surgery or medications I need. No thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It will get worse - a great deal worse. 2020 looks to be the ugliest campaign in our lifetimes .
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I was alive in '68. Until a leading candidate gets shot, nothing will be worse.

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Condor060 View Post
    Oh I don't doubt how to fix it, thats common sense. What I am saying is it will never happen under a government controlled program on a scale this elaborate. Not even possible. I love how Bernie fluffs this idea up with how other countries are so gifted to have incorporated these programs but when you dig just a bit deeper you find out the tax result of such a program.

    I don't want my government telling me if I qualify for a certain surgery or medications I need. No thank you.
    Let's say that is it only under a government program that it would happen. Otherwise, you got vultures as middlemen with a profit motive. I also want to see health care not dependent on employers. There were a couple of people I know that has a real good health insurance. They got sick, and couldn't work. After their medical leave time passed, they were laid off, and the Cobra ate into their savings and retirement. I am not sure about one, but the other left their spouse without their retirement fund, since it was spent on hospital bills and funeral costs. That means, people lose insurance when they need it the most, because they can't work. Unless you are independently wealthy, that can wipe out the savings and retirement of your spouse. That can happen to anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah Arendt
    "The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist."

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    Let's say that is it only under a government program that it would happen. Otherwise, you got vultures as middlemen with a profit motive. I also want to see health care not dependent on employers. There were a couple of people I know that has a real good health insurance. They got sick, and couldn't work. After their medical leave time passed, they were laid off, and the Cobra ate into their savings and retirement. I am not sure about one, but the other left their spouse without their retirement fund, since it was spent on hospital bills and funeral costs. That means, people lose insurance when they need it the most, because they can't work. Unless you are independently wealthy, that can wipe out the savings and retirement of your spouse. That can happen to anyone.
    Don't think I am not sympathetic to the exact problem. I feel your pain as I have had to deal the similar problems myself. And the program you are sighting would be the best for everyone. Couldn't agree more. But Government run healthcare? Let me just say I would have to see it before I ever came close to believing it. That goes for Government run anything. You wind up with a bunch of nobodies who are the friend of a guy who used to be someones ex that got the job out of a favor making irrational emotional decisions.

    Just take a day down at the DMV or DOT or your local inspectors office filled with people you can't fire to get an idea of what will be making your medical decisions. Way too scary for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It will get worse - a great deal worse. 2020 looks to be the ugliest campaign in our lifetimes .
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I was alive in '68. Until a leading candidate gets shot, nothing will be worse.

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by Condor060 View Post
    Don't think I am not sympathetic to the exact problem. I feel your pain as I have had to deal the similar problems myself. And the program you are sighting would be the best for everyone. Couldn't agree more. But Government run healthcare? Let me just say I would have to see it before I ever came close to believing it. That goes for Government run anything. You wind up with a bunch of nobodies who are the friend of a guy who used to be someones ex that got the job out of a favor making irrational emotional decisions.

    Just take a day down at the DMV or DOT or your local inspectors office filled with people you can't fire to get an idea of what will be making your medical decisions. Way too scary for me.
    The local DMV and the local inspectors are really good where I am. I don't see any issue there. Could it be a regional difference, about work ethic and efficiency?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah Arendt
    "The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist."

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    The local DMV and the local inspectors are really good where I am. I don't see any issue there. Could it be a regional difference, about work ethic and efficiency?
    Most of what we have is understaffed and not very energetic. Takes an act of congress to remove one as most are there through family favors.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It will get worse - a great deal worse. 2020 looks to be the ugliest campaign in our lifetimes .
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I was alive in '68. Until a leading candidate gets shot, nothing will be worse.

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    Re: Implications of Medicare for All

    Our governments are so awesome at fixing the roads, why NOT put them in charge of our health?

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