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When does racist apology become actual racism?

NWRatCon

NWRatCon

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This is a serious question, not a troll-bait thread.

I admit that the public has largely become numb to the constant race-baiting shenanigans of Donald Trump, but the weekend tweetstorm was an appreciable "low". As a result, it generated a number of threads on the forum. Almost immediately - in some cases even preemptively - apologists came on to "defend" the tweets, some in nearly identical language (and certainly with identical intent). Which got me to actually ponder the question posed: When does racist apology become actual racism? How does one distinguish it from racism?

I recognize that I will get a lot of "responses" from people I have previously dismissed, but I am genuinely interested in thoughtful responses to the question.
 
NWRatCon said:
When does racist apology become actual racism?
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Always. When someone says something that is very clearly overtly racist and then someone makes up a bull**** excuse to defend what was said then that person is defending racism.

The lions share of racism in our society today is subconscious and indirect. That doesn't change the fact that it is racist.
 
NWRatCon said:
This is a serious question, not a troll-bait thread.

I admit that the public has largely become numb to the constant race-baiting shenanigans of Donald Trump, but the weekend tweetstorm was an appreciable "low". As a result, it generated a number of threads on the forum. Almost immediately - in some cases even preemptively - apologists came on to "defend" the tweets, some in nearly identical language (and certainly with identical intent). Which got me to actually ponder the question posed: When does racist apology become actual racism? How does one distinguish it from racism?

I recognize that I will get a lot of "responses" from people I have previously dismissed, but I am genuinely interested in thoughtful responses to the question.
Click to expand...

You would first have to demonstrate why it is that suggesting that someone badmouthing the US should return to their place of origin is racist.
 
NWRatCon said:
This is a serious question, not a troll-bait thread.

I admit that the public has largely become numb to the constant race-baiting shenanigans of Donald Trump, but the weekend tweetstorm was an appreciable "low". As a result, it generated a number of threads on the forum. Almost immediately - in some cases even preemptively - apologists came on to "defend" the tweets, some in nearly identical language (and certainly with identical intent). Which got me to actually ponder the question posed: When does racist apology become actual racism? How does one distinguish it from racism?

I recognize that I will get a lot of "responses" from people I have previously dismissed, but I am genuinely interested in thoughtful responses to the question.
Click to expand...

Please post the definition of racism so the discussion can have a common basis.
 
NWRatCon said:
This is a serious question, not a troll-bait thread.

I admit that the public has largely become numb to the constant race-baiting shenanigans of Donald Trump, but the weekend tweetstorm was an appreciable "low". As a result, it generated a number of threads on the forum. Almost immediately - in some cases even preemptively - apologists came on to "defend" the tweets, some in nearly identical language (and certainly with identical intent). Which got me to actually ponder the question posed: When does racist apology become actual racism? How does one distinguish it from racism?

I recognize that I will get a lot of "responses" from people I have previously dismissed, but I am genuinely interested in thoughtful responses to the question.
Click to expand...

The term 'race baiting' I thought usually applied to the left, like Al Sharpton would be considered a race baiter / race peddler. To be sure, there is political profit in peddling race. One of the hallmarks of race peddling is that there has to be a race one is "against".

Trump is simply reverse race-baiting. There are other races besides "people of color".

Trump wouldn't be able to do this if the left's concept of "pro-black" wasn't "anti-white". Since it is anti-white, Trump has an easy time of playing the race game.
 
NWRatCon said:
This is a serious question, not a troll-bait thread.

I admit that the public has largely become numb to the constant race-baiting shenanigans of Donald Trump, but the weekend tweetstorm was an appreciable "low". As a result, it generated a number of threads on the forum. Almost immediately - in some cases even preemptively - apologists came on to "defend" the tweets, some in nearly identical language (and certainly with identical intent). Which got me to actually ponder the question posed: When does racist apology become actual racism? How does one distinguish it from racism?

I recognize that I will get a lot of "responses" from people I have previously dismissed, but I am genuinely interested in thoughtful responses to the question.
Click to expand...

I see no differentiation between racism and racist apology. If one is doing the 'apologising' instead of outright condemning it, the tacit support is clear.
 
Fletch said:
You would first have to demonstrate why it is that suggesting that someone badmouthing the US should return to their place of origin is racist.
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Well, when their place of origin is the United States it seems a pretty damn stupid comment, wouldn't you agree? I am of course referring to Trump's latest racist rant concerning four women of various ethnic origins. That man is so stupid it beggars belief.
 
Fletch said:
You would first have to demonstrate why it is that suggesting that someone badmouthing the US should return to their place of origin is racist.
Click to expand...

That "place of origin" was the US for 3/4 of those Trump elected to single out (based on race?) and all are US citizens elected to congress. BTW, "badmouthing the US" does not require (or even imply) changing (improving?) the policy of foreign nations.

Trump flat out screwed up by suggesting that those in congress who have policy disagreements (conflicts?) with his views should leave the US (for any reason). There is simply no way to "TrumpSplain" singling out those particular 4 (non-white?) demorats for special (send them packing?) consideration.
 
NWRatCon said:
This is a serious question, not a troll-bait thread.

I admit that the public has largely become numb to the constant race-baiting shenanigans of Donald Trump, but the weekend tweetstorm was an appreciable "low". As a result, it generated a number of threads on the forum. Almost immediately - in some cases even preemptively - apologists came on to "defend" the tweets, some in nearly identical language (and certainly with identical intent). Which got me to actually ponder the question posed: When does racist apology become actual racism? How does one distinguish it from racism?

I recognize that I will get a lot of "responses" from people I have previously dismissed, but I am genuinely interested in thoughtful responses to the question.
Click to expand...

Any apologist for racists is racist. That's goes without saying.

Now, what they do to avoid being called on it is to pretend not to be apologists. Instead of outright being apologist, they use code words like "free speech." Or, they say stupid crap like "Liberal Progressive Socialist propaganda," as if an actual racist tweet by Scumbag in Chief needs spin.

So, yeah, it's racist to defend racism.
 
Rickeroo said:
The term 'race baiting' I thought usually applied to the left, like Al Sharpton would be considered a race baiter / race peddler. To be sure, there is political profit in peddling race. One of the hallmarks of race peddling is that there has to be a race one is "against".

Trump is simply reverse race-baiting. There are other races besides "people of color".

Trump wouldn't be able to do this if the left's concept of "pro-black" wasn't "anti-white". Since it is anti-white, Trump has an easy time of playing the race game.
Click to expand...

What a piss-poor example of excusing overt racism. 'I know, let's pretend we're white victims and see if anyone is too stupid to recognise our agenda'.:lamo
 
Rickeroo said:
The term 'race baiting' I thought usually applied to the left, like Al Sharpton would be considered a race baiter / race peddler. To be sure, there is political profit in peddling race. One of the hallmarks of race peddling is that there has to be a race one is "against".

Trump is simply reverse race-baiting. There are other races besides "people of color".

Trump wouldn't be able to do this if the left's concept of "pro-black" wasn't "anti-white". Since it is anti-white, Trump has an easy time of playing the race game.
Click to expand...

This is arguing that racism wouldn't exust if it's historical targets would refrain from calling it out. Which, in this day and age, doesn't surprise me.

I like your comparison of Trump to Sharpton, but it begs the observation that the country was willing to elevate a white race baiter to the White House. That should trouble everyone.
 
NWRatCon said:
Feel free to offer one.
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a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
 
Rickeroo said:
The term 'race baiting' I thought usually applied to the left, like Al Sharpton would be considered a race baiter / race peddler. To be sure, there is political profit in peddling race. One of the hallmarks of race peddling is that there has to be a race one is "against".

Trump is simply reverse race-baiting. There are other races besides "people of color".

Trump wouldn't be able to do this if the left's concept of "pro-black" wasn't "anti-white". Since it is anti-white, Trump has an easy time of playing the race game.
Click to expand...
I had to do a lot of "un-twisting" to get through that thought processing. "There are other races besides "people of color"." Really? Are there? What would those be? Genuinely - doesn't the term "people of color" cover "non-white", meaning the opposite is... white? Caucasian? As in, singular?

I don't think racism is a game. It is a pernicious condition. I don't deny that "racism" exists within many, many cultures and races. I've seen it, myself, in Panama. I don't think the average American could distinguish a Tutsi from a Hutu, but I guarantee a Rawandan probably can. But that is really not what is going on here, is it?

You say, "Trump is simply reverse race-baiting." I challenge that. There is no such thing. Trump is race-baiting, period. There are "whites", good, and "others", bad. That's the formula. Cutting out the troll-baiting "left" stuff, what is your criteria for "race-baiting"? Mentioning race? Is Caucasian a "race"? I think the formulation that you presented, "pro-black" is "anti-white" is the essence of race-ism, isn't it?
 
snakestretcher said:
If you can't figure out what racism is I suggest you crack open a book or two. This forum doesn't exist to educate you.
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Who pissed is your crisps?

When writing a legal agreement, for example, it is important to define terms to ensure a meeting of the minds.
 
NWRatCon said:
Almost immediately - in some cases even preemptively - apologists came on to "defend" the tweets, some in nearly identical language (and certainly with identical intent). Which got me to actually ponder the question posed: When does racist apology become actual racism? How does one distinguish it from racism?
Click to expand...
Based on your post, I assume you mean: "When does defending racists, when they make racist statements, become racist?" The answer to that should be pretty obvious: The defenders are also racists, and there isn't any reason to draw a distinction.

Asking "is it racist to say 'go back to your country?' when you don't really know what's going on, that's not racist. Saying "I don't care if you were born in the US, go back to your country" almost exclusively because someone has brown skin? That's a problem.

The only exception is those who defend the concept of free speech from inappropriate government regulation. For example, let's say that a state outlaws any statements that deny slavery happened in the US, with a penalty of $5000 fine and/or 1 month in jail. Clearly this law is unconstitutional, as it violates the 1st Amendment. Attacking that law in court would not make someone a racist, even though ultimately they are defending the rights of racists to speak freely.
 
NWRatCon said:
When does racist apology become actual racism?
Click to expand...
It's racism, why is this confusing? It's basic definitions, just read the wiki, that's sufficient for lay people.

Cultural racism - Wikipedia
Cultural racism, sometimes called neo-racism, new racism, or differentialist racism, describes prejudices and discrimination based on cultural differences between ethnic or racial groups. This includes the idea that some cultures are superior to others, and that various cultures are fundamentally incompatible and should not co-exist in the same society or state. In this it differs from biological or scientific racism, meaning prejudices and discrimination rooted in perceived biological differences between ethnic or racial groups.
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Trump's behavior and tweets clearly indicate he his playing up cultural racism. The supporters of it, support cultural racism.

This isn't news. A significant portion of Trump's campaign strategy was similar to the southern strategy. Stoke white racist fears against "others", Muslims, Hispanics, African Americans, etc. We've seen it continue to play out from OMG CARAVANS!!, to the anthem kneeling, "fine people on both sides", gold star family attacks (but Trump said he made lots of sacrifices too!!..draft dodger).

That's just in his latest tweets...he's of course done so much that it would take a long time to sift through all his trash talk to catalogue it, everyone knows it, only fools deny it.

Many people on this forum routinely post in a way that indicates they are clearly, routinely, day-in-day-out, racists.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Who pissed is your crisps?

When writing a legal agreement, for example, it is important to define terms to ensure a meeting of the minds.
Click to expand...

If you are truly ignorant of the term, 'racist', I suggest you may be part of that unsavoury group, desperately attempting to deny that racism exists. It's not nice being a pariah, is it?
 
snakestretcher said:
If you can't figure out what racism is I suggest you crack open a book or two. This forum doesn't exist to educate you.
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I don't think that was necessary. I meant it sincerely when I said "feel free to offer one."
 
AliHajiSheik said:
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
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I can go with that.
 
snakestretcher said:
What a piss-poor example of excusing overt racism. 'I know, let's pretend we're white victims and see if anyone is too stupid to recognise our agenda'.:lamo
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Every white liberal that has their kids in a mostly white public school is a racist. Beyond that, the race game has two sides, side A and side B. Trump is playing side B, and everyone is shocked that side B actually has an "ethnic" racial identity. Just like the brown people on side A.

I don't see it as being victims. The way I look at it, every day the media is slamming white people with "omg black and brown people". That's great for a while, but we get tired of hearing about black and brown people.
 
The problem is that politicians have learned to say things without actually saying them.
 
Rickeroo said:
Every white liberal that has their kids in a mostly white public school is a racist. Beyond that, the race game has two sides, side A and side B. Trump is playing side B, and everyone is shocked that side B actually has an "ethnic" racial identity. Just like the brown people on side A.

I don't see it as being victims. The way I look at it, every day the media is slamming white people with "omg black and brown people". That's great for a while, but we get tired of hearing about black and brown people.
Click to expand...

Pathetic.
 
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