Ronald Reagan was a disastrous president

Helix said:

He also argued against nation building, which turned out to be the exact opposite of his eventual position.

Click to expand...

Yes, he attacked Clinton for an 'arrogant' foreign policy - incredible irony and hypocrisy. Just like trump's 'drain the swamp'.

DaveFagan said:

Because Reagan prevented the release of the Iran hostages. Treason./

Click to expand...

To be fair, my impression is that the Reagan campaign contacted Iran requesting them to not release the hostages, but I've seen reports that the Iranians already wanted to wait because they hated Carter for letting the Shah get medical treatment (ridiculous position). I'm sure how much effect the Reagan campaign had. Still treasonous.

Luther said:

And who fault was it then?

Click to expand...

It was the fault of the Eisenhower administration who put the Shah in power, and the Shah who was a terrible dictator and was bankrupting his country corruptly, creating a revolutionary fury.

So why do you suppose they pay still the majority of the Fed income tax even then

Click to expand...

Because they take such a huge share of the income.

Luther said:

Then why do you suppose Carter lost so bad to Reagan?

Click to expand...

Because the country was misguided and did not understand Carter's qualities, they did not understand the plutocracy Reagan would bring, because Reagan's communication skills were effective, the high inflation rate from problems Carter inherited and was fixing, the media's constant hyping of the hostages, and possibly some effect from Carter's debate book being stolen by a bitter Ted Kennedy aide and given to the Reagan campaign.

SmartCat said:

During the Carter presidency an average of 2,600,000 jobs were created every year. Under Reagan that declined to 2,000,000.

Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ

Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Democratic Underground

During the Carter presidency there was a brief, shallow recession lasting six months. During the Reagan presidency there was a deep sixteen month long recession.

https://www.nber.org/cycles.html

During the Carter presidency the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) declined from 33% in 1977 to 32% in 1980. During the Reagan presidency the increase was from 31% in 1981 to 49% in 1988.

National Debt by Year Compared to GDP and Major Events

The inflation that began in 1979 and which ended after 1982 was caused by fluctuations in the world price of petroleum neither Carter nor Reagan had much control over.

Historical Crude Oil Prices (Table)

The economic recovery that is supposed to have happened under Reagan was as superficial and shallow as he was.

Click to expand...

Historically I've never understood the dislike of Carter as President.

SmartCat said:

In 1980 millions of whites thought the 1960's had been a mistake - both the civil rights legislation and the social changes. Like Trump, Reagan exploited nostalgia for the social atmosphere of the 1950's in efforts to restore the economic status quo of the 1920's.

Click to expand...

SmartCat said:

When Republican politicians tried to reduce spending on them they ran into effective resistance, much of it from rank and file Republicans.

Click to expand...

Which is why "Starve the beast" was invented, recognizing the political difficulty of passing such cuts, they decided that plummeting the country into massive debt would force cuts.

Luther said:

Sure was

He was duped by the democrats and gave Amnesty for over 2 million illegals(1986)

1988 was the last year Calif was Red


Yep

Click to expand...

You think the dems duped reagan into amnesty? :lol:

Reagan wanted amnesty to help bust unions. You're not going to rewrite history that easily.

DaveFagan said:

Because Reagan prevented the release of the Iran hostages. Treason.
/

Click to expand...

Nobody talks about how he conspired with the Iranians.

And the worst thing Reagan did was ignore the AIDs crisis. He also exploded the prison population with his ridiculous "war on drugs."

But after Trump, every president looks better. So, I can't call Reagan a bad president.

SonOfDaedalus said:

Nobody talks about how he conspired with the Iranians.

And the worst thing Reagan did was ignore the AIDs crisis. He also exploded the prison population with his ridiculous "war on drugs."

But after Trump, every president looks better. So, I can't call Reagan a bad president.

Click to expand...

Don't forget Iran/Contra. I mean that was such a blatantly unconstitutional move. Back-door funding of a war that congress voted down. How do conservatives get away with the most unbelievable crimes while in office?

Luther said:

And who fault was [Carter's bad economy] then?

So why do you suppose the rich pay still the majority of the Fed income tax even then?

Click to expand...

The inflation that began in 1979 happened because of the Iranian Revolution of that year. That led to shortages in petroleum. Carter was not responsible for that revolution. President Eisenhower was. In 1953 he directed the CIA to help overthrow the democratic government of Iran and install the Shah as absolute monarch. The Shah was never a popular leader. The Iranians resented us for imposing him on them. When they overthrew him in a popular revolution they expressed that resentment by not selling us oil.

----------

Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, April 11, 2019

Who Pays Taxes in America in 2019?

For years, Americans have been told that the rich are paying a highly disproportionate share of the nation’s taxes. Claims to that effect often focus on just one tax, the federal personal income tax, which is indeed progressive overall. But when the nation’s tax system is viewed in its entirety, it becomes clear that the reality is very different. Despite their enormous incomes and wealth, the nation’s richest taxpayers are paying a share of overall taxes that slightly exceeds their share of income...

in 2019, the richest 1 percent of Americans will collect more than $1 in $5 of income in the United States (20.9 percent) and will pay a slightly higher share of the nation’s overall federal, state and local taxes (24.1 percent).

Meanwhile, the poorest fifth of Americans will receive only a small fraction of the nation’s income (2.8 percent)...

Commentators seeking to create the impression that high-income households are paying an outsized share of the nation’s taxes tend to focus their attention narrowly on the most progressive taxes. It is true that some of our revenue sources are quite progressive, including the federal personal income tax, corporate income tax and estate tax.[1]

But Americans pay other federal taxes that are not progressive...

Americans also pay state and local taxes that are particularly regressive, meaning they capture a larger share of income from low- or middle-income families than from wealthy families...

State and local sales taxes are paid by virtually everyone. These are particularly regressive because poor families have little choice but to spend all their income buying necessities while wealthy families can save most of their income, shielding it from sales taxes...

the graph below shows that the effective total tax rate—the total federal, state and local taxes paid as a share of income—is higher for those at the top than for those at the bottom, but the difference is less than commonly believed.



Who Pays Taxes in America in 2019? – ITEP

SCrider said:

Historically I've never understood the dislike of Carter as President.

Click to expand...

Carter was not only a better president than Reagan, he was a better Christian. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christian conservatives left Carter in 1980 to vote for a man who rarely attended church.

Craig234 said:

Click to expand...

Reagan made America great for the rich again.

poweRob said:

Don't forget Iran/Contra. I mean that was such a blatantly unconstitutional move. Back-door funding of a war that congress voted down. How do conservatives get away with the most unbelievable crimes while in office?

Click to expand...

By further crimes and abuse of power - appointing corrupt officials, in the case of Iran-Contra William Barr assisting Bush to pardon all the officials, after they obstructed the investigation.

SonOfDaedalus said:

But after Trump, every president looks better. So, I can't call Reagan a bad president.

Click to expand...

Yes, you can, even though trump in many ways is a lot worse. In ways, though, Reagan was worse - ask Latin America.

Jetboogieman said:

Reagan, it seems to me Is held in such high regard by many Conservatievs not so much for what he did, because today he’d likely be boo’d out of a Republican Primary for being a wild eyed socialist nut job, but for how he made them feel.

He made them feel pride in being a Conservative American and he’s largely falsely credited with the fall of communism, when in reality it was largely a self inflicted end result of Soviet Policies.

Click to expand...

That is a very good point, but it's really a bad thing about Reagan. Republicans were in bad shape after Watergate exposed a lot of just how corrupt they'd become. Instead of fixing it, Reagan came along to say 'forget that, we're fine'.

It's a little like Bush's shameless bravado after stealing 2000; or Kavanaugh's shamelessness; I think that's one reason for trump's popularity, that he sort of gives his supporters a feeling that they're ok, because trump is worse, instead of feeling like some 'elitist' do-gooder in superior to them. If trump can be shameless about his wrongs, it seems to make them feel better about themselves somehow. Some weird psychology. Remember Reagan was the first divorced president, also.

Sometimes people are in these situations; after WWII Germany had some atoning to do, which they did. After Vietnam, the US had some atoning to do, which we have never done.

This is preferring to just ignore the wrongs and claim victory. That's what Reagan did - the 'never say you're sorry' approach. Just talk about a 'shining city on the hill' and people swoon.

Craig234 said:

That is a very good point, but it's really a bad thing about Reagan. Republicans were in bad shape after Watergate exposed a lot of just how corrupt they'd become. Instead of fixing it, Reagan came along to say 'forget that, we're fine'.

It's a little like Bush's shameless bravado after stealing 2000; or Kavanaugh's shamelessness; I think that's one reason for trump's popularity, that he sort of gives his supporters a feeling that they're ok, because trump is worse, instead of feeling like some 'elitist' do-gooder in superior to them. If trump can be shameless about his wrongs, it seems to make them feel better about themselves somehow. Some weird psychology. Remember Reagan was the first divorced president, also.

Sometimes people are in these situations; after WWII Germany had some atoning to do, which they did. After Vietnam, the US had some atoning to do, which we have never done.

This is preferring to just ignore the wrongs and claim victory. That's what Reagan did - the 'never say you're sorry' approach. Just talk about a 'shining city on the hill' and people swoon.

Click to expand...

Gee, did the North Vietnamese ever apologize to the Hmong? Or the other "Montagnard" tribes for that matter?

How about the families of the people killed in their terrorist attacks and various atrocities which, you know, where a matter of governmental policy?

Not even getting into the fact that the war in Vietnam was not even remotely comparable to Germany's actions in World War Two.

Craig234 said:

To be fair, my impression is that the Reagan campaign contacted Iran requesting them to not release the hostages, but I've seen reports that the Iranians already wanted to wait because they hated Carter for letting the Shah get medical treatment (ridiculous position). I'm sure how much effect the Reagan campaign had. Still treasonous.

Click to expand...

Reagan/Bush agreed to ship via Israel spare military parts to Iran for USA supplied F4H type aircraft and more.Tip of the iceberg.
/