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Thread: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

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    Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    I won't post this to the Sports area because it's a rather political issue. The Governor of New York, the President of the United States, House representatives and Senators have all talked about it. It's political.

    First of all, let me say this: I'm absolutely for equal pay for men and women who do the same job. Truly, the same job.

    But in the case of sports, there is a hierarchy of leagues and quality, and it affects how people are compensated. It's not really a gender issue.

    Think of it. Major League Baseball players get paid more than Triple A players. They both play the game of baseball, but obviously, the MLB stars are more valuable to the entertainment industry (given that they generate more revenue) than the Triple A guys, therefore they get compensated with higher salaries. These are all males.

    If we took the equal job, equal pay to this situation, should the Triple A guys get the same salary as the MLB guys just because they play the same game of baseball?

    No, it's not the same job. It's the same game, but the job is different. The MLB guys play against a much higher level of competition. They have to excel a lot more. They need to be much more talented.

    Talent counts. Is a very talented and experienced medical doctor, with 3 decades of experience, the author of a textbook and 100 scientific papers, a full professor... paid the same as another medical doctor who is a recent graduate, a trainee resident, this unknown quantity who hasn't done anything at all, other than graduating? No. The more talented, more proven, more experienced doctor is paid a much higher salary than the inexperienced trainee. Well, is it the same job? Superficially, yes; they are both doctors. They both see patients and write prescriptions. They are both licensed by the Medical Board. However, it's a no-brainer that the more talented and more accomplished doctor is paid more, including because the job is not really the same; the more experienced doctor has more responsibilities. Also, the more experienced doctor generates a lot more income. He/she writes grants, gets original research to be sponsored, brings in millions of dollars to the organization, while the young resident brings nothing. So, yes, the older doctor makes more money. Normal.

    Is this a gender issue? No. A female experienced doctor will make more than a male inexperienced doctor. The issue is one of talent, experience, and income generation for the employer. NOT gender.

    So, let's think again of the US Women's National Soccer Team, and the US Men's National Soccer Team, and their pay differential.

    The women have won the World Cup while the men have won nothing; recently lost to Mexico in the Gold Cup final (so, placed second).

    However, the USWNT played against one of the under-15 boys team (13 and 14 year old boys) and lost 5-2. Think of it. High school boys, a regular team. They beat the top of the top women's team 5-2.

    The USMNT faces much bigger competition. If they were to play against the USWNT they'd likely win by something like 20-0. If the women's team were to play in the Gold Cup, they'd be dead last (unlike the men's second place). If they played in the Men's FIFA World Cup, they'd be dead last. New Zealand would beat them 10-0.

    The men's league, MLS, brings in at least ten times more money than the women's league. Probably more; I haven't looked at the numbers.

    So, is it normal for the men to make more money? Sure, and IT'S NOT A GENDER ISSUE!!! It's merely an issue of talent, competition, and income generation.

    When it's truly the same job, all parameters considered, sure, pay the same.

    When it's not the same level of difficulty and quality and competition, then, no, equal pay doesn't apply.

    Opinions?
    Last edited by GreatNews2night; 07-10-19 at 09:57 PM.

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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    I think for sports the biggest issue regarding pay should be the horrible way university athletes in the US are treated. I don't think the pay gap argument between men's and women's sports is not the big issue as it is currently presented. Could there be issues not being addressed with such a broad stroke, probably.
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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Men’s football/soccer has been a top attraction for over 100 years. I think it is probably the world’s most popular sport, in interest and revenue. The women’s game has only been on the world stage for about 30 years.

    Yes the USWNT has performed better than the men’s team in the way of championships. As the OP states the income generated by the two different leagues is disproportionate on the surface. Where do the ladies think that the money will come from to pay them the same as the men’s team? There are already cretins on this board that believe that the US taxpayer is on the hook for US Soccer. FIFA is more corrupt than the US government ever thought about being! Good Luck, ladies!
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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    19 of the 20 Democrat presidential candidates have promise free soccer.
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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    It's all about supply and demand. The demand for women's soccer just isn't there.
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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexedgar View Post
    Men’s football/soccer has been a top attraction for over 100 years.
    God knows why.
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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    God knows why.
    Oh, but hockey, amirite?


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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexedgar View Post
    Oh, but hockey, amirite?


    It is a few hours of watching some people run around a field. Hockey is the same with skating but at least there is a lot more violence in hockey to keep things interesting. I only watch it if it is a big patriotic event like the Olympics.

    And both are leagues better than the "sport" of football, it is 99% standing around and then they might run for a few seconds, and the fact that is actually not very much of an exaggeration is the ridiculous part. I know, they can change the name to micro-sprinting.
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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    I won't post this to the Sports area because it's a rather political issue. The Governor of New York, the President of the United States, House representatives and Senators have all talked about it. It's political.

    First of all, let me say this: I'm absolutely for equal pay for men and women who do the same job. Truly, the same job.

    But in the case of sports, there is a hierarchy of leagues and quality, and it affects how people are compensated. It's not really a gender issue.

    Think of it. Major League Baseball players get paid more than Triple A players. They both play the game of baseball, but obviously, the MLB stars are more valuable to the entertainment industry (given that they generate more revenue) than the Triple A guys, therefore they get compensated with higher salaries. These are all males.

    If we took the equal job, equal pay to this situation, should the Triple A guys get the same salary as the MLB guys just because they play the same game of baseball?

    No, it's not the same job. It's the same game, but the job is different. The MLB guys play against a much higher level of competition. They have to excel a lot more. They need to be much more talented.

    Talent counts. Is a very talented and experienced medical doctor, with 3 decades of experience, the author of a textbook and 100 scientific papers, a full professor... paid the same as another medical doctor who is a recent graduate, a trainee resident, this unknown quantity who hasn't done anything at all, other than graduating? No. The more talented, more proven, more experienced doctor is paid a much higher salary than the inexperienced trainee. Well, is it the same job? Superficially, yes; they are both doctors. They both see patients and write prescriptions. They are both licensed by the Medical Board. However, it's a no-brainer that the more talented and more accomplished doctor is paid more, including because the job is not really the same; the more experienced doctor has more responsibilities. Also, the more experienced doctor generates a lot more income. He/she writes grants, gets original research to be sponsored, brings in millions of dollars to the organization, while the young resident brings nothing. So, yes, the older doctor makes more money. Normal.

    Is this a gender issue? No. A female experienced doctor will make more than a male inexperienced doctor. The issue is one of talent, experience, and income generation for the employer. NOT gender.

    So, let's think again of the US Women's National Soccer Team, and the US Men's National Soccer Team, and their pay differential.

    The women have won the World Cup while the men have won nothing; recently lost to Mexico in the Gold Cup final (so, placed second).

    However, the USWNT played against one of the under-15 boys team (13 and 14 year old boys) and lost 5-2. Think of it. High school boys, a regular team. They beat the top of the top women's team 5-2.

    The USMNT faces much bigger competition. If they were to play against the USWNT they'd likely win by something like 20-0. If the women's team were to play in the Gold Cup, they'd be dead last (unlike the men's second place). If they played in the Men's FIFA World Cup, they'd be dead last. New Zealand would beat them 10-0.

    The men's league, MLS, brings in at least ten times more money than the women's league. Probably more; I haven't looked at the numbers.

    So, is it normal for the men to make more money? Sure, and IT'S NOT A GENDER ISSUE!!! It's merely an issue of talent, competition, and income generation.

    When it's truly the same job, all parameters considered, sure, pay the same.

    When it's not the same level of difficulty and quality and competition, then, no, equal pay doesn't apply.

    Opinions?
    Its going to be a moot point when transmen start playing soccer.

    Regarding pay, where does the money come from?
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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    I think for sports the biggest issue regarding pay should be the horrible way university athletes in the US are treated. I don't think the pay gap argument between men's and women's sports is not the big issue as it is currently presented. Could there be issues not being addressed with such a broad stroke, probably.
    Yes, from one standpoint, college athletes are treated unfairly. They bring in millions and millions of dollars to the schools, and are paid nothing.

    But the issue is complex. They are also given a free education with full scholarship. Many don't take advantage of it, but it's there, in case they do want to get the education and graduate. Also, they are playing in order to be noticed by the major leagues. The best ones among them go on to hugely lucrative deals with the major leagues. So, it's a sort of showcase. They wouldn't get the same exposition and the same opportunities for huge contracts, if they weren't playing college sports. They use the school athletic program's facilities, coaching, and resources in order to better their game and get noticed.

    There is also the amateur, Olympic spirit. The college leagues are supposed to be there for the betterment of young men and young women through sports, as part of their global educational experience.

    Maybe something should be done about a sort of fund so that college athletes would earn a percentage of the revenue they generate for the school, in the form of say, a retirement fund. I'm not sure if they should be directly paid. It defeats the spirit of amateur athletics for the betterment of one's mind and body.

    Again, if we think of it more broadly and compare to other situations, it's not so far-fetched.

    Think of a Law School student. The student is not getting paid. Actually, the student pays tuition to the school. In the case of the nation's top law schools, the very accomplished student body will generate resources for the school, in the form of research grants, student clinics, articles published in the Law Journal that sells subscriptions, prestige that generates resources and donations from non-governmental organizations, and donations from their families or from themselves after they graduate and are grateful to the school. But it's only after they graduate from the prestigious school and get top jobs, that they get paid top money; not while they are students.

    So, why should student athletes be paid, while student lawyers are not paid???

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