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Thread: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    It only appears to be unequal pay when looked at from a currency point of view. When looked at from a percentage of team revenue perspective, it is equal pay. A male soccer team earns considerably more revenue than a female soccer team. However, if the players are paid an equal percentage of the team's revenue, then they are being equally paid in proportion to their team's earnings. Even though women would be taking home less for playing the same game.
    We're talking about how much the government pays to players on the national teams, right? Am I misunderstanding? How much the US governing body pays to amateur athletes to compensate them for the time they spend training for the national team. Not how revenues of a professional sport are disbursed. Is that right?
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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    No, pay attention. This isn't about soccer or economics. It's about disbursement of government money, and the government giving 'way more money to men than women. If I've got it right. So you tell me- where does the money paid to amateur athletes on the mens national team and the women's national team come from?
    You said it was supply and demand- can you show me why that's true? Can you tell me why the American governing body should pay more taxpayer money to men than to women? See, I'm having trouble understanding why women are entitled to less taxpayers money for doing the same thing men do.
    If I'm right. You sound like you know the subject, is that the issue? Government money, and much, much more being disbursed to men than women?
    The government shouldn't be paying any athlete any money. Let them sink or swim on their own.
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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    Its going to be a moot point when transmen start playing soccer.
    What's wrong with trans men playing soccer?

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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    We're talking about how much the government pays to players on the national teams, right? Am I misunderstanding? How much the US governing body pays to amateur athletes to compensate them for the time they spend training for the national team. Not how revenues of a professional sport are disbursed. Is that right?
    There is a similar uncomfortable feeling about the FIFA World Cup, as it relates to the U.S. womenís and menís national teams. We see a lopsided compensation structure, in which the men are paid considerably more than the women. This seems especially heinous, since the womenís team has a far-superior winning record.

    In the midst of all the frustration over the financial remuneration, some basic facts are left out of the discussion. The sponsorships, television rights, merchandise and other monies, which are generated for the prize money, is much greater for the menís team compared to the womenís team.*The prize money for the womenís 2019 World Cup was about $30 million, of which the winner takes home about $4 million. The prize money for the menís 2018 World Cup was roughly $400 million and the champions took home $38 million.*The menís World Cup tournament generated over $6 billion in revenue for 2018. The women are estimated to have brought in $131 million in 2019
    Link: Why The U.S. Women's National Soccer Team Earns Less Than The Men's -- And How It Will Change

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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    The men's league, MLS, brings in at least ten times more money than the women's league. Probably more; I haven't looked at the numbers.

    So, is it normal for the men to make more money? Sure, and IT'S NOT A GENDER ISSUE!!! It's merely an issue of talent, competition, and income generation.

    When it's truly the same job, all parameters considered, sure, pay the same.

    When it's not the same level of difficulty and quality and competition, then, no, equal pay doesn't apply.

    Opinions?
    I clipped a lot of that for brevity - hope that's OK.

    Talent has nothing to do with it. Men will always be better athletes than women, but when you're talking about pay, what matters is the money. If some braindead pop star brings in $1 billion, she'll make 1000 times one of the world's best opera singers with FAR more singing talent.

    Everything I've seen shows that the women's world cup teams bring in at least as much as the men, probably more. The sponsorship and endorsement and TV money that pays the players is IMO how to determine pay for those players.

    You bring up the MLS, but this has nothing to do with MLS, at least not the current controversy, but with world cup national teams. So the proposals by the women are to base pay on the money flows, and if it shows the women bringing in half or close, pay them equally to the men, who are creating the same value, wealth, as the women.

    We had this argument for years when Pat Summit coached the UT Lady Vols. At her prime, the Lady Vols were a perennial top 5 team, won the SEC consistently, 10 national championships, many more final fours, etc. The men have never been to a final four, ever. And the men's coach always made double or more than Pat Summit, but based on how much the teams brought in and what was at stake, that was fair. You couldn't do the numbers in a way that it made sense to pay Pat Summit the same, and the Lady Vols had their own female athletic director, and she never was paid equally. Pat was fine with that because it was just business...

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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    I won't post this to the Sports area because it's a rather political issue. The Governor of New York, the President of the United States, House representatives and Senators have all talked about it. It's political.

    First of all, let me say this: I'm absolutely for equal pay for men and women who do the same job. Truly, the same job.

    But in the case of sports, there is a hierarchy of leagues and quality, and it affects how people are compensated. It's not really a gender issue.

    Think of it. Major League Baseball players get paid more than Triple A players. They both play the game of baseball, but obviously, the MLB stars are more valuable to the entertainment industry (given that they generate more revenue) than the Triple A guys, therefore they get compensated with higher salaries. These are all males.

    If we took the equal job, equal pay to this situation, should the Triple A guys get the same salary as the MLB guys just because they play the same game of baseball?

    No, it's not the same job. It's the same game, but the job is different. The MLB guys play against a much higher level of competition. They have to excel a lot more. They need to be much more talented.

    Talent counts. Is a very talented and experienced medical doctor, with 3 decades of experience, the author of a textbook and 100 scientific papers, a full professor... paid the same as another medical doctor who is a recent graduate, a trainee resident, this unknown quantity who hasn't done anything at all, other than graduating? No. The more talented, more proven, more experienced doctor is paid a much higher salary than the inexperienced trainee. Well, is it the same job? Superficially, yes; they are both doctors. They both see patients and write prescriptions. They are both licensed by the Medical Board. However, it's a no-brainer that the more talented and more accomplished doctor is paid more, including because the job is not really the same; the more experienced doctor has more responsibilities. Also, the more experienced doctor generates a lot more income. He/she writes grants, gets original research to be sponsored, brings in millions of dollars to the organization, while the young resident brings nothing. So, yes, the older doctor makes more money. Normal.

    Is this a gender issue? No. A female experienced doctor will make more than a male inexperienced doctor. The issue is one of talent, experience, and income generation for the employer. NOT gender.

    So, let's think again of the US Women's National Soccer Team, and the US Men's National Soccer Team, and their pay differential.

    The women have won the World Cup while the men have won nothing; recently lost to Mexico in the Gold Cup final (so, placed second).

    However, the USWNT played against one of the under-15 boys team (13 and 14 year old boys) and lost 5-2. Think of it. High school boys, a regular team. They beat the top of the top women's team 5-2.

    The USMNT faces much bigger competition. If they were to play against the USWNT they'd likely win by something like 20-0. If the women's team were to play in the Gold Cup, they'd be dead last (unlike the men's second place). If they played in the Men's FIFA World Cup, they'd be dead last. New Zealand would beat them 10-0.

    The men's league, MLS, brings in at least ten times more money than the women's league. Probably more; I haven't looked at the numbers.

    So, is it normal for the men to make more money? Sure, and IT'S NOT A GENDER ISSUE!!! It's merely an issue of talent, competition, and income generation.

    When it's truly the same job, all parameters considered, sure, pay the same.

    When it's not the same level of difficulty and quality and competition, then, no, equal pay doesn't apply.

    Opinions?
    Actually you are dead wrong. The women actually brings in more money and their TV ratings are much higher. Yes men are bigger and stronger, but what the hell does that have to do with anything. Maybe you think men in the workplace should get paid more for doing the same work as women because they are bigger and stronger. And the Women's team has won and done so consistently, while the men's team, to put it plain sucks. Our men's team has actually gotten worse over the years. And the competition in the women's game today is what makes the women's tournament so popular.

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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by independentusa View Post
    Actually you are dead wrong. The women actually brings in more money and their TV ratings are much higher. Yes men are bigger and stronger, but what the hell does that have to do with anything. Maybe you think men in the workplace should get paid more for doing the same work as women because they are bigger and stronger. And the Women's team has won and done so consistently, while the men's team, to put it plain sucks. Our men's team has actually gotten worse over the years. And the competition in the women's game today is what makes the women's tournament so popular.
    Quote Originally Posted by well, the linked article says
    The men’s World Cup tournament generated over $6 billion in revenue for 2018. The women are estimated to have brought in $131 million in 2019.
    The girls have a bit of catching up to do.
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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    What's missing from the article is how much of that big pot of worldwide money from men's and women's world cup teams comes into the U.S. national team's coffers, and I've seen estimates that it's roughly equal.

    Could be I've seen some biased articles, but when he talks about the 'winning pot' when some years the men don't even QUALIFY and get drummed out other years in the early rounds, it's not relevant. Might as well talk about prize money for the winners of Wimbledon, and compare Serena Willians to the best men's entry who is ranked 58th and loses in the 2nd round. How much of that $400 million in prize money did the men's World Cup team claim in 2018? Oh, yeah, the men didn't qualify, so that would be $0!

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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    The girls have a bit of catching up to do.
    The U.S. men didn't have a team in the 2018 World Cup, so how much did they earn from their non-qualifying spot watching it on TV at home?

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    Re: Equal pay women vs men in soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The U.S. men didn't have a team in the 2018 World Cup, so how much did they earn from their non-qualifying spot watching it on TV at home?
    Well, it could be pointed out that even though they didn't qualify for the WC in 2018, they were paid more money for thier time in the 4 year qualifying process than the women were for thiers.

    The women only make up the difference by actually being better than the men when it comes to performance. If they sucked as bad as the guys, the disparity would be even bigger.

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