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Shocking photo of drowned father and daughter highlights migrants' border peril

Phys251 said:
Because we need to see it. Just like we needed to see that naked girl running from her napalmed village, and Walter Scott being shot in the back by a police officer, and Gerri Santo who died after an unsafe abortion. We need to see that these horrors are real.
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It has always disgusted me that U.S. media hides images of violent death, war or otherwise.

Europe puts it on T.V. If one wants an age restriction so that a 9 year old isn't subjected to someone whose leg was just blown off at 9pm, fine. But a total ban? I think we as people each owe a duty to history and each other of educating ourselves, pain or not, of the evils of humanity. One must know evil to understand the need to fight it. Better to know it in advance than find it in your backyard. And better the pain of knowing of it than the pain of suffering it.

Yes, we should have to see the dead child/father, to see the marine killed in Afghanistan 16 years later, to see evil and thus know it.
 
Manc Skipper said:
There are obvious parallels with Alan Kurdi, the Syrian kiddie washed up on a Mediterranean beach. His death changed an appalling situation for the better. For a while, at least.

[FONT="]"Oscar Alberto Martinez Ramirez, frustrated because the family from El Salvador was unable to present themselves to US authorities and request asylum, swam across the river on Sunday with his daughter, Valeria."
RIP.

[/FONT]Father-toddler US border drowning shows stark migrant reality | Stuff.co.nz
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ICE_crying_drowned.jpg
 
Mr Person said:
It has always disgusted me that U.S. media hides images of violent death, war or otherwise.

Europe puts it on T.V. If one wants an age restriction so that a 9 year old isn't subjected to someone whose leg was just blown off at 9pm, fine. But a total ban? I think we as people each owe a duty to history and each other of educating ourselves, pain or not, of the evils of humanity. One must know evil to understand the need to fight it. Better to know it in advance than find it in your backyard. And better the pain of knowing of it than the pain of suffering it.

Yes, we should have to see the dead child/father, to see the marine killed in Afghanistan 16 years later, to see evil and thus know it.
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Yes but TV news is a consumer product here in the USA so there's no way any outlet is going to broadcast anything that would send viewers into a tizzy, or force them to face inconvenient realities.
 
HumblePi said:
That was my suggestion days ago on one of these threads. It's what the US should do rather than waste billions of tax dollars incarcerating immigrants, fix the problem from where it starts.
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As for the border, so much is still about infrastructure with me, lasting infrastructure. With ~ $800 spent per child per day on these child care centers, I’d be building permanent, all-purpose SCHOOLS, with associated dormitories.

As for those deflecting cons who say ‘what are you doing’, Border Patrol refuses to accept ANY donations of goods and resources. As well, the changes in policy at the border by Stephen Miller have completely exacerbated the problem.

Let’s see this admin deport the 8 million illegals who are actually WORKING, critical to such economic sectors like Big Time Operators — BTOs — in Agriculture as well as supporting farm communities. Let’s see the 8 million Americans ready to work on BTO farms, landscaping, construction, restaurants, motels/hotels and many more.
 
Outlook said:
There are risks in breaking the law. They should have sought asylum.
How many North African migrants drowned trying to reach Europe?
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They did seek asylum. They waited and waited, and heard nothing, so the father decided to cross.
 
KevinKohler said:
Excuse me, but can some explain who's faughlt it is that this father and his daughter are dead?
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Dad decided to gamble his and his daughter's life on crossing the river. He rolled snake eyes, so I would say it's his fault.
 
Mr Person said:
Are you entirely sure you understand the structure of your "pwn the libtards" move in creating this thread?

You find a tragic article about a toddler who died clinging to her father. You attempt to score political points by accusing hypothetical "leftist" of attempting to score political points by blaming Trump in the future. You do not see the flaws in this display of basic inhumanity.
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Actually, there is no hypothetical about it, and you have the whole "attempting to score political points" thing backwards. I was perusing the news and I saw the Trump haters coming, beginning with this headline: This photo of a dead father and daughter shows the true nature of Trump’s immigration policy The photo is disgusting, but the fact that Trump's political opponents will attempt to use it against him as a cynical means to a political end also disgusts me. But I have faith that the public will see through it.
 
Ahlevah said:
HumblePi said:
One question I'm curious about. Why do you have the surname of a Russian lawyer and political activist on your signature?

Alexei Navalny
Алексей Навальный
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I like what he symbolizes: the struggle for freedom against tyranny.
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Incidentally, that's his fist in my avatar.
 
Linc said:
Democrats won in 2018 on Issues, not Insults.
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Yeah, well, they're going to lose the presidency--again--on lunatic issues AND insults if they're not careful.
 
uptower said:
It's ludicrous to blame trump or even his immigration policy for this. The US does not let everyone in, it cannot, so they try and sneak in and take risks to do so: they drown in the river or die in the desert; it's a sad state of affairs but in itself nothing new.

But it does highlight the cruelty of the Trumpies in treating these people as less than human, common criminals or those who don;t deserve some sympathy or a bar of soap once they're apprehended. They are unfortunate, they have a plight, and do not need to be demonized or dehumanized in order to soothe right-wing consciences or stroke their [almost entirely unearned] macho self-image.
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From the OP's link: "According to Julia Le Duc, a reporter for the newspaper La Jornada, Martínez Ramírez had arrived in Matamoros on Sunday, hoping to request asylum from US authorities with his wife, Vanessa Ávalos, and their daughter."

Why didn't he request asylum from Mexico?

From the OP's link: "As part of a broader crack down on migration, the Trump administration has made asylum seekers wait in Mexico while their claims are considered – a process which can take years. Migrants have increasingly turned to more remote and dangerous routes across the southern frontier."

Wasn't this the father's choice? Why didn't he choose to wait in Mexico, a country whose language he speaks?

From the OP's link: "Claudia Hernández, a Mexican police officer in the border town of Piedras Negras, told the Guardian: “The river is treacherous and the people who aren’t from here don’t know that. I grew up here along the Río Bravo river [Río Grande]. I wouldn’t even go into that water to bathe or swim. There are springs and whirlpools and when the current takes you it can pull you under.

Isabel Turcios, a Franciscan nun, the director of the Casa del Migrante shelter in Piedras Negras said that local activists warn migrants not to try their luck on the river, but the US has drastically reduced the number of migrants who are allowed to request asylum each day."

Helpful activists are warning migrants. Maybe Mexican police should be more proactive in preventing tragedies too, but at what point must a father accept responsibility for the choice he made for his family?
 
nota bene said:
From the OP's link: "According to Julia Le Duc, a reporter for the newspaper La Jornada, Martínez Ramírez had arrived in Matamoros on Sunday, hoping to request asylum from US authorities with his wife, Vanessa Ávalos, and their daughter."

Why didn't he request asylum from Mexico?

From the OP's link: "As part of a broader crack down on migration, the Trump administration has made asylum seekers wait in Mexico while their claims are considered – a process which can take years. Migrants have increasingly turned to more remote and dangerous routes across the southern frontier."

Wasn't this the father's choice? Why didn't he choose to wait in Mexico, a country whose language he speaks?

From the OP's link: "Claudia Hernández, a Mexican police officer in the border town of Piedras Negras, told the Guardian: “The river is treacherous and the people who aren’t from here don’t know that. I grew up here along the Río Bravo river [Río Grande]. I wouldn’t even go into that water to bathe or swim. There are springs and whirlpools and when the current takes you it can pull you under.

Isabel Turcios, a Franciscan nun, the director of the Casa del Migrante shelter in Piedras Negras said that local activists warn migrants not to try their luck on the river, but the US has drastically reduced the number of migrants who are allowed to request asylum each day."

Helpful activists are warning migrants. Maybe Mexican police should be more proactive in preventing tragedies too, but at what point must a father accept responsibility for the choice he made for his family?
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Conservatives came in here recently and shows that Mexico is 80% controlled by cartels and criminals. Now you're all expecting people who are fleeing for the safety and livelihood of their families to stay there for "asylum?"

This is a direct result of the policy to only process very few asylum claims, how dare you step in ignorantly when you don't know the desperation this man was in. You people have abandoned your humanity.
 
Manc Skipper said:
There are obvious parallels with Alan Kurdi, the Syrian kiddie washed up on a Mediterranean beach. His death changed an appalling situation for the better. For a while, at least.
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From my perspective, Europe pulled up the migrant welcome mat. The Italians got the Libyan Navy in gear to bitch-slap the Sub-Saharan Africans back to Timbuktu, and the Iron Curtain went up again in the Balkans, except this time in reverse as a means of keeping the Arabs out. These moves to restrict immigration put another dent in the idea of Europe as a progressive, loving, caring place, and I suppose it still is--as long as you're white. :doh So Europeans don't need to be lecturing Americans who wish to control their borders on who is or isn't worthy of admission to the club. They're hypocrites if they do.
 
Linc said:
As for the border, so much is still about infrastructure with me, lasting infrastructure. With ~ $800 spent per child per day on these child care centers, I’d be building permanent, all-purpose SCHOOLS, with associated dormitories.

As for those deflecting cons who say ‘what are you doing’, Border Patrol refuses to accept ANY donations of goods and resources. As well, the changes in policy at the border by Stephen Miller have completely exacerbated the problem.

Let’s see this admin deport the 8 million illegals who are actually WORKING, critical to such economic sectors like Big Time Operators — BTOs — in Agriculture as well as supporting farm communities. Let’s see the 8 million Americans ready to work on BTO farms, landscaping, construction, restaurants, motels/hotels and many more.
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Instead, some bigwigs are lining their pockets with gold.

Trump is heading to Japan to meet with world leaders at the G20 this week. All those world leaders have seen the photo published today of the 22 year old man and his 2 year old daughter drowned. They've all read about the abuses of children in Clint, Texas. How is Trump going to look like a 'good guy' to any of them? He is also scheduled to meet privately with Putin and I'll bet Putin will give him orders to stay the **** off Iran's case.
 
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Linc said:
gops always follow the Cheney/Halliburton model.
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Never before has this country been subjected to this much greed and corruption. It'll all come out eventually. I just hope we can survive it.
 
HumblePi said:
Or the sub-contractors which are probably all friends of some republican Congressman
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This is why 8 million illegals employed by GOP Big Time Operators — BTOs — will never be deported.
 
Ahlevah said:
Dad decided to gamble his and his daughter's life on crossing the river. He rolled snake eyes, so I would say it's his fault.
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Bottom line, it's the father's fault. The Left doesn't want to hear it, but it's the truth. These "parents" are putting their children's lives in danger and somehow they're martyrs.
No, they're committing negligent homicide.
 
Ahlevah said:
Get ready for a leftist tsunami blaming Trump for this. Trump thanks you for the 2020 votes!
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You're straight up thrilled about this, aren't you?
 
Ahlevah said:
Actually, there is no hypothetical about it, and you have the whole "attempting to score political points" thing backwards. I was perusing the news and I saw the Trump haters coming, beginning with this headline: This photo of a dead father and daughter shows the true nature of Trump’s immigration policy The photo is disgusting, but the fact that Trump's political opponents will attempt to use it against him as a cynical means to a political end also disgusts me. But I have faith that the public will see through it.
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How many times do we have to see children dying because their parents will put them through anything, and face any danger, to have a kid in hand when they illegally cross the border?
This obsession with never criticizing illegals is mental. They're all angels and "sparks of divinity". None are taking advantage of our asylum loopholes by dragging children along.
 
Linc said:
As for the border, so much is still about infrastructure with me, lasting infrastructure. With ~ $800 spent per child per day on these child care centers, I’d be building permanent, all-purpose SCHOOLS, with associated dormitories.
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A lion's share of that $800/day is going directly into shareholder profits and CEO salaries, I guarantee you. But you know that already, I am sure.

Linc said:
As for those deflecting cons who say ‘what are you doing’, Border Patrol refuses to accept ANY donations of goods and resources. As well, the changes in policy at the border by Stephen Miller have completely exacerbated the problem.
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We both know that Stephen Miller IS the AUTHOR of all these policies.

Linc said:
Let’s see this admin deport the 8 million illegals who are actually WORKING, critical to such economic sectors like Big Time Operators — BTOs — in Agriculture as well as supporting farm communities. Let’s see the 8 million Americans ready to work on BTO farms, landscaping, construction, restaurants, motels/hotels and many more.
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Never going to happen because now that we HAVE all these lovely private detention centers, those corporations are going to want to see their bottom line continue, which means we now NEED MORE illegals, not less!

But I know you knew that already too.
The people who DON'T KNOW that and NEED to know that aren't listening, and in fact they're plugging up their ears and screeching
"LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I can't HEAR YOU-U-U-U-U-U-U!!!!"
 
Hamish Howl said:
You're straight up thrilled about this, aren't you?
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Of course!!



It's a DRUG called "Twumpy's Tincture of Libtard Tears" and it's a highly addictive drug.
And these people are all addicted to it.

No different than crack, meth, heroin or any of the other opioid compounds.
 
HumblePi said:
Never before has this country been subjected to this much greed and corruption. It'll all come out eventually. I just hope we can survive it.
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We won't unless we overturn the Republican Senate majority, keep the House and put a Democrat in the White House.
 
Acadia said:
How many times do we have to see children dying because their parents will put them through anything, and face any danger, to have a kid in hand when they illegally cross the border?
This obsession with never criticizing illegals is mental. They're all angels and "sparks of divinity". None are taking advantage of our asylum loopholes by dragging children along.
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Ever give any thought at all to WHY people might be that desperate?
 
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