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I’m calling bull crap on Trump’s last minute order cancellation

One would think that it's a good thing that further escalation in an already volatile region of the world was avoided, yet so many condemn the decision.

Make no mistake, had the decision gone the other way, to proceed with the strikes, the same people would condemn that decision as well.

Just as long as they can condemn the president which they don't like, that's all that makes them happy. :roll:

Frankly, getting completely fed up with this bull**** and hypocrisy.

There is no rational explanation for his cooked up fairy tale that does not involve grave dysfunction.

No military briefing fails to include the part about enemy casualties.
 
Why would he have approved the order without first ascertaining the number of casualties? Why wouldn't that information be included in any briefing about the operation when he was presented target options? Shouldn't it have been among the first considerations, if not the first consideration, what the loss of life would be?

Usually, (not saying this is what happened as I wasn't there) Usually, a proportional response to shooting down a US asset is to take out the battery that fired on the asset. These are manned by military personnel. If we are attacking a building downtown (X) you would get a civilian casualty number. I don't remember ever hearing about military member number considerations while attacking military assets until after the fact. I could be wrong.
 
Remember that story he told about how he fought for a raise for the military?

"They said 2%. I said no. They said 5%. I said no, make it 10%"

At this point, you have to have the mind of a child to believe anything Trump says.
Get this:

Arthur Laffer just recently published a book about Trump and his economic policy, even naming the book after Trump. So yesterday, Trump gives him The Presidential Medal of Freedom! But it gets better. As Trump presides over the ceremony, he hyperbolically recounts the high esteem of the Laffer Curve, and how long he and his professors and fellow students studded it, how important it was, and how much he spent reading about it!

But wait! Laffer didn't begin to formulate his hypothesis until the mid-seventies! And Trump graduated in '68!

I mean, you just can't make this **** up!
 
Usually, (not saying this is what happened as I wasn't there) Usually, a proportional response to shooting down a US asset is to take out the battery that fired on the asset. These are manned by military personnel. If we are attacking a building downtown (X) you would get a civilian casualty number. I don't remember ever hearing about military member number considerations while attacking military assets until after the fact. I could be wrong.

According to experts:
"I find it hard to believe that was the first time they told him," Mark Cancian, a defense expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told Newsweek. "This is an unusual situation because it's at the front-end of a conflict so it would get very high level attention."

Cancian formerly worked on war funding, force development and procurement programs at the Office of Management and Budget and in the Pentagon. He also spent three decades serving in the Marines Corps.

Casualty numbers are routinely factored into a briefing on any strike, he said, and the military has sophisticated tools designed to predict weapons effects. According to Cancian, one program, nicknamed "bug splat," is specifically used to calculate potential casualties and other symptoms of war.

...
Ryan Goodman, a former special counsel for the Department of Defense, tweeted that the president's story doesn't make sense.

"Story doesn't add up. For one thing the General would not have "to get back to you on that" for estimated casualties. It would be right there in black and white as part of Concept of Operation. Is Trump suggesting the Pentagon brought him a plan without having those figures?" Goodman wrote in one post.
'Hard to Believe' Trump Only Learned About Casualties Minutes Before Iran Strike: Expert
 
Get this:

Arthur Laffer just recently published a book about Trump and his economic policy, even naming the book after Trump. So yesterday, Trump gives him The Presidential Medal of Freedom! But it gets better. As Trump presides over the ceremony, he hyperbolically recounts the high esteem of the Laffer Curve, and how long he and his professors and fellow students studded it, how important it was, and how much he spent reading about it!

But wait! Laffer didn't begin to formulate his hypothesis until the mid-seventies! And Trump graduated in '68!

I mean, you just can't make this **** up!

But Donald apparently has no problem with making stuff up.
 
Whether he did it or just said he did it, whether it was his idea (unlikely) or he got some sound advice (for once), either way he's using it to build suspense. He's trying to create an Apprentice style "will he won't he" moment because he thinks this is all just TV.
Yep. A Reality Show. That's all it ever is.
 
lol please, he's been doing his best to do just that since he started. the fact that nothing really bad has happened so far is actually a ****ing miracle.

obviously some of you don't understand the influence of the war hawks in DC, and how Trump just stopped them from playing their game. This was a great decision he made.
 
Usually, (not saying this is what happened as I wasn't there) Usually, a proportional response to shooting down a US asset is to take out the battery that fired on the asset. These are manned by military personnel. If we are attacking a building downtown (X) you would get a civilian casualty number. I don't remember ever hearing about military member number considerations while attacking military assets until after the fact. I could be wrong.
The military has a concerned first and foremost of collateral damage on both sides, so Trump's claim is not believable.

Seriously, put on you're thinking cap. There's no way you actually buy this lie.
 
You forgot,

" ... and a brain".

But I suspect you simply didn't want to be as insulting as I just was.

Yeah, I was playing the scarecrow role; already been called out on my post, irony abounds...:thumbs:
 
Who knows. The whole thing is crazy
 
That's the problem.

If the media had to wait for secondhand information to report on Trump's word, they'd never have anything to report on.
That would be great, Seriously. This would isolate Trump, and curtail his manipulation. It would also likely make him go nuts. I say the media should do it (ignore), because all they're doing is legitimizing and abetting the damn buffoon. He never intended on being President, anyway.
 
obviously some of you don't understand the influence of the war hawks in DC, and how Trump just stopped them from playing their game. This was a great decision he made.

Tell me that next week when he decides to go to war with them. Trump is not playing some kind of 4D chess like you people seem to think. He's an idiot and a baby. We shouldn't even be having this discussion, but thanks to his ineptitude, we have to.
 
I don't believe 150 casualties in and of themselves had anything to do with it. Getting us engaged in a fight that we are only willing to BLUSTER about...that is a different story.
+1 :thumbs:

150 lives means nothing to Trump. Look what he did to those border kids.
 
Think about it. A loss of 150 people is on the scale of the McVeigh attacks, even if it is overseas.

There's no way Trump would not have been aware of such a loss of life upfront.

My hunch is that Trump is likely making up what the number of causalities what have been from the attacks, as I find it hard to believe even militarists like Bolton would have gone to such an escalation over the loss of a drone.
 
That would be great, Seriously. This would isolate Trump, and curtail his manipulation. It would also likely make him go nuts. I say the media should do it (ignore), because all they're doing is legitimizing and abetting the damn buffoon. He never intended on being President, anyway.
The most hurtful thing the Democrats could do is stop talking about him and stop engaging him.

Don't go to the WH under most circumstances. Pelosi and Schumer should not meet with Trump unless it's an emergency. Cut him out of all the adult conversations. Furthermore, don't grant him floor privileges in the House for a SOTU ever again, and insist all conversation be off camera.

That would bleed him dry, but the ***** Dems will never do it.
 
obviously some of you don't understand the influence of the war hawks in DC, and how Trump just stopped them from playing their game. This was a great decision he made.

I would call it an expeditious decision as are most decisions Trump makes. This one benefited him most of all.
 
That's what's killin' the torch and pitchfork crowd ... they had their circle-jerk party cancelled :2mad: by Trump's restraint.
No. What's killing us is your believing Trump's charades like this, and then coming back begging for more!

Can you tell me with a straight face, that you believe what Trump said here?
 
It's all about looking tough to his base. I suspect he knows a war going into the election will sink him. But damn, he really screwed-up Iran after Obama had it all settled down, or at least reasonably contained.

Please, this baloney is out of control. Obama with all the cash he returned to Iran, it was shortly after Iran was very active funding terrorist attacks toward Israel, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Egypt. At the same time cozying up to N. Korea, Russia and China. Their involvement in Syria has been a disaster. Their movement into Iraq has not been helpful either. But thanks to the Obama administration they had billions to fund all their terrorist activities something they have been involved in for decades and well documented.. Furthermore, Obama's Iran deal had a short shelf life. In a matter of months that agreement would expire. Intelligence from several nations say Iran never stopped processing uranium for warheads.

I watched CNN and MSNBC cover the situation and they were all screaming and talking out their arse that Trump was about to lead us into another war. Well today these same yahoos look like asses when he told them to stand down.

But our great MSM then today instead of giving Trump any credit for his measured response they then turned the argument upside down and are now claiming Trump because he called off the attack now looks weak to our enemies. You see, it doesn't matter what he does, they will oppose it.

But he did make the right choice. All the crap that Iran has been doing whether blowing up pipelines in Saudi Arabia, or attacking other nations oil tankers, they shot down a drone of the U.S. No American life was lost. But Trump has sent more troops to protect our interests and has deployed ships to the region because of Iran's recent behavior.

It was reported today that Iran's currency has been depreciated 60%. The strong sanctions the Trump administration put into place are working.
 
But Donald apparently has no problem with making stuff up.
No ****!

And the damn media picks it up and debates it in earnest, as if it really happened. And here on DP, we have posters debating it on its merits. It's a freakin' charade, but it's being debated on its hypothetical merits!

I swear, I feel like I'm floating through a fantasy land. Here we go baby, down the rabbit hole!


Alice_in_Wonderland_pg41_-_Alice_meets_the_White_Rabbit_-_by_Margaret_Winifred_Tarrant_1916.jpg
 
Please, this baloney is out of control. Obama with all the cash he returned to Iran, it was shortly after Iran was very active funding terrorist attacks toward Israel, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Egypt. At the same time cozying up to N. Korea, Russia and China. Their involvement in Syria has been a disaster. Their movement into Iraq has not been helpful either. But thanks to the Obama administration they had billions to fund all their terrorist activities something they have been involved in for decades and well documented.. Furthermore, Obama's Iran deal had a short shelf life. In a matter of months that agreement would expire. Intelligence from several nations say Iran never stopped processing uranium for warheads.

I watched CNN and MSNBC cover the situation and they were all screaming and talking out their arse that Trump was about to lead us into another war. Well today these same yahoos look like asses when he told them to stand down.

But our great MSM then today instead of giving Trump any credit for his measured response they then turned the argument upside down and are now claiming Trump because he called off the attack now looks weak to our enemies. You see, it doesn't matter what he does, they will oppose it.

But he did make the right choice. All the crap that Iran has been doing whether blowing up pipelines in Saudi Arabia, or attacking other nations oil tankers, they shot down a drone of the U.S. No American life was lost. But Trump has sent more troops to protect our interests and has deployed ships to the region because of Iran's recent behavior.

It was reported today that Iran's currency has been depreciated 60%. The strong sanctions the Trump administration put into place are working.
Vesper, it's all a Trumpian fantasy. Do you think it really happened? What Trump is telling you?
 
Think about it. A loss of 150 people is on the scale of the McVeigh attacks, even if it is overseas.

There's no way Trump would not have been aware of such a loss of life upfront.

My hunch is that Trump is likely making up what the number of causalities what have been from the attacks, as I find it hard to believe even militarists like Bolton would have gone to such an escalation over the loss of a drone.

Bolton, if given the chance, would attack Iran for any reason or no reason at all.
 
Please, this baloney is out of control. Obama with all the cash he returned to Iran, it was shortly after Iran was very active funding terrorist attacks toward Israel, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Egypt. At the same time cozying up to N. Korea, Russia and China. Their involvement in Syria has been a disaster. Their movement into Iraq has not been helpful either. But thanks to the Obama administration they had billions to fund all their terrorist activities something they have been involved in for decades and well documented.. Furthermore, Obama's Iran deal had a short shelf life. In a matter of months that agreement would expire. Intelligence from several nations say Iran never stopped processing uranium for warheads.

I watched CNN and MSNBC cover the situation and they were all screaming and talking out their arse that Trump was about to lead us into another war. Well today these same yahoos look like asses when he told them to stand down.

But our great MSM then today instead of giving Trump any credit for his measured response they then turned the argument upside down and are now claiming Trump because he called off the attack now looks weak to our enemies. You see, it doesn't matter what he does, they will oppose it.

But he did make the right choice. All the crap that Iran has been doing whether blowing up pipelines in Saudi Arabia, or attacking other nations oil tankers, they shot down a drone of the U.S. No American life was lost. But Trump has sent more troops to protect our interests and has deployed ships to the region because of Iran's recent behavior.

It was reported today that Iran's currency has been depreciated 60%. The strong sanctions the Trump administration put into place are working.

That wasn't a measured response. That was NO response.

I don't think Trump looks weak to our enemies as a result of this and I don't believe anything the 24/7 news networks say about ANYTHING ANYWAY.

I think:
- our $200M baby was in Iranian Airspace
- our Military is totally shocked that Iran had surface to air capabilities that could shoot it down much like we were shocked when Gary Powers U2 went down over Russia
- we have to go back and reevaluate Iran's surface to air missile capabilities as no successful military campaign we have ever mounted since WW2 has come without first achieving complete control of the air environment which we clearly DO NOT HAVE in this case
- we are simply not in a position to engage in any sort of retribution effort that might result in an escalated conflict until they figure this out

Somebody finally told Bombs Away Bolton to put a sock in it and told Trump that the US Military is not quite ready to sign a check he wants to cash and THAT WAS THAT.

Further I think that Putin's comments about a war with Iran being a disaster for the US is because if anybody knows what surface to air and other capabilities Iran has, ITS VLADIMIR PUTIN.
 
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That wasn't a measured response. That was NO response.

I don't think Trump looks weak to our enemies as a result of this and I don't believe anything the 24/7 news networks say about ANYTHING ANYWAY.

I think:
- our $200M baby was in Iranian Airspace
- our Military is totally shocked that Iran had surface to air capabilities that could shoot it down much like we were shocked when Gary Powers U2 went down over Russia
- we have to go back and reevaluate Iran's surface to air missile capabilities as no successful military campaign we have ever mounted since WW2 has come without first achieving complete control of the air environment which we clearly DO NOT HAVE in this case
- we are simply not in a position to engage in any sort of retribution effort that might result in an escalated conflict until they figure this out

Somebody finally told Bombs Away Bolton to put a sock in it and told Trump that the US Military is not quite ready to sign a check he wants to cash and THAT WAS THAT.

Further I think that Putin's comments about a war with Iran being a disaster for the US is because if anybody knows what surface to air and other capabilities Iran has, ITS VLADIMIR PUTIN.

Yeah, high speed anti-radiation missiles are yesterday's news. You can't suppress SAMs like in the old days.
 
First, you said that I’m being hypocritical. Now you’re saying I made something up.

Post my specific comments you drew your understanding from.

Your statement was:
The glaring irregularity in Trump’s purported story is that he wasn’t briefed at that time how many could be killed. That’s bull****. President’s are advised beforehand of that very important factor.

Was Trump trying to make himself out to be a hero?

You are watching to many movies. The correct response to attacking a US military aircraft per our rules of engagement is to take out the battery that fired upon the aircraft. Always has been, always will be.

When assembling a task force to respond to a limited encounter on a single anti aircraft battery assumes minimum military casualties and has never been a consideration in the past. When we launched the MOAB on ISIS caves in Afghanistan there was never a consideration of proposed casualties and even if there were, we would have moved forward anyway.

I have every expectation that there wasn't a conversation about how many military people would be killed in the response unless it was asked.
 
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