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Democrats are wrong on free college educations

I tend to believe those who perpetrated a fraud are the ones who are to be held accountable. I don't really want to deal with your false concern trolling.

So you got nuthin'?

I didn't perpetrate this fraud. I've said all along that providing free college would only benefit colleges and professors. Turns out I was right.
 
So you got nuthin'?

I didn't perpetrate this fraud. I've said all along that providing free college would only benefit colleges and professors. Turns out I was right.

Sure you did. You voted. You enabled these politicians. You selected them - as we all did. You're as culpable as they are. Had you not voted for them, none of this would have happened.

Take responsibility for your part.
 
For college loans, they shouldn't be gauranteed by the government, and the same standards of creditworthiness should be made. this idea of giving loans to anyone, even if bad credit, to students as long as they can breathe fog on a mirror, and if they take the money and default, they can't toss it in bankruptcy, i.e., the gov has collection priviledges that no private enterprize has where they hunt the student until his dying days, this, to me, is wrong. Do you know that, if a student defaults, that some 30 years later the DOE can shift the loan over to the DOJ, with it's unlimited resources for collection. No business can do that.

I like the system in California where one can go to college for pennies ( via communitiy college ) to sophomore, and transfer to state college for the last two years and pay for those two years, noting that the first two years are those "general" classes for the purpose of making students "well rounded", ( whatever that means ). The CA system makes sense to me.

The problem with your argument is these kids are young, have no credit history, no income, and no real guarantee of ever being able to pay back the huge amounts they borrow. No bank on earth would loan them money.

Without this windfall, kids would consider the other options. With the windfall there's no reason to.

Other options include staying local and living at home. The community college route. Nearly every area has that route. Richmond has Richard Bland, affiliated with William and Mary. The military option. Lesser cost state schools. All will leave you with a smaller debt.
 
How very 'christian' of you to think so highly of those less fortunate. There is surely a place waiting for you in heaven when you are asked, 'what did you do to merit entry?' When you reply, 'I didn't want to pay taxes to help the unfortunate', guess where you'll end up?

Now it is a sin for rich people including massive numbers of selfish democrats, to advocate for tax cuts? What kind of Bible are these do-gooder exorbitant tax-paying socialists reading?
 
How very 'christian' of you to think so highly of those less fortunate. There is surely a place waiting for you in heaven when you are asked, 'what did you do to merit entry?' When you reply, 'I didn't want to pay taxes to help the unfortunate', guess where you'll end up?

Boy, did you switch gears. One of the best I've seen. From how much did you personally pay? Asked several times. To now not helping the unfortunate while in heaven.

Good job.
 
Boy, did you switch gears. One of the best I've seen. From how much did you personally pay? Asked several times. To now not helping the unfortunate while in heaven.

Good job.

I know, I do my best to entertain. Glad you noticed. Do you understand what 'sarcasm' means?
 
I agree with the rest but cut it off there for space. I'd just like to add that for people who are older (and I'm one of them - graduated undergrad in 1985), we all went to school when a public college was FAR more affordable than it is now. So we can sit back and say, "We did it on our own!!" but don't account for the fact that the share of college funded by taxes has declined as the share of total costs paid by tuition has almost doubled just since 1988, as total tuition itself has skyrocketed. So they're paying a much larger share of a much bigger number.

In my generation, many people could work and fund the vast majority of their tuition costs, and still graduate in decent shape financially. It's no accident that young people today are so upset by college, and it's because they're facing a funding problem that is pretty unique to them.

8-22-17highered_f8.png


Case in point. My company routinely hires college grads for temp positions. You can't even be considered if you don't have a 4 year degree, and the pay starts at $12.50 an hour, which is absolutely absurd given the amount college costs. Until you change the culture at companies, desiring college grads, then your platform continues to fail.

I don't find the complaints of conservatives to be based in reality when it comes to taxation. Yes, you'd be taxed to pay for things like reducing overall student debt burden, or medicare for all. I find it so hypocritical to do so.

Someone paid for you to go to school. The tax payers subsidized your education by subsidizing schools and colleges. No, you didn't "do it all on your own". Someone paid for the roads you drive on, the safety of your vehicle, the cleanliness of your air and water. Someone is paying for your future retirement benefits.

Someone also paid for your kids. Even if you sent them to private school, the public at large subsidized the private school via tax waivers, exemptions, etc. Churches, the same thing.

In the end some of us find it a more noble cause to ensure the foundation of our society remains in tact.

Grossly unethical? Are you delusional? It seems you are vastly disconnected from how wealthy some people are. The democrats are absolutely the opposite of your last sentence - if they're Justice democrats. They don't want the rich to keep getting tons in tax breaks while denying the public adequate healthcare and schooling.

At the end of the day this boils down to one fundamental disagreement; you don't want our tax dollars going to improve the lives of Americans. You'd rather our tax dollars go to bomb Middle Easterners and to the top earners who do not in turn lower prices or hire more people.
[/QUOTE]

Sir, the reason you can hire degreed temps for less than wages at McDonalds is that there are more graduates than there are jobs. That is the result of the student loan program.
 
I know, I do my best to entertain. Glad you noticed. Do you understand what 'sarcasm' means?

I noticed. I always notice diverting when someone is losing the battle.
 

Sir, the reason you can hire degreed temps for less than wages at McDonalds is that there are more graduates than there are jobs. That is the result of the student loan program.[/QUOTE]


True and remember, they are effectively coming onboard as interns with a potentially rosy future. McDonalds does not offer that.
 
Sir, the reason you can hire degreed temps for less than wages at McDonalds is that there are more graduates than there are jobs. That is the result of the student loan program.


True and remember, they are effectively coming onboard as interns with a potentially rosy future. McDonalds does not offer that.[/QUOTE]

I once appraised all the Richmond McDonalds at the same time. One thing that stood out was that all the managers started sweeping floors on the night shift and moved to manager when the manager moved to corporate. Opportunity is where you find it. It's up to you what you do with it.
 
When are the folks who perpetrated this hoax going to be held accountable, is my question? Why do students have to be burdened with the lies and misdeeds of others?

Because they signed the contract. The HOAX are those who claim a person must get a university degree to make a good income, and then it turns out to be a lie. This is a HOAX most pushed by the Democratic Party now.

In fact, 43 million of the 44 million students with loans are paying off their loans. There is no crisis. Rather, it is that greedy college grads can pay their loans, but don't want to. They want to eat out rather than cooking at home, buy a new car and have the latest smart phone each year. It's pure greed with they're wanting others to pay for their luxuries.
 
Yes. The collusion between liberal politicians, and the liberal education industry, most certainly created a fraudulent narrative When they added free money, those two forces took it to the bank.

Industry is what demands a college credential, not "liberal politicians." People get degrees because employers demand it, whether it's needed or not.
 
It's courtesy, when you make a broad claim, to be specific, and provide links to support your argument.

While your claim might be true for some things, but not all things. Your characterization of "often" is vague.

one could argue, for example, that affirmative action hurts blacks which was intended to help.
.

But, that might be true in a number of ways, though historically speaking, they were discriminated against in education. Whether that's true today, that's another aspect that has to be looked at. So, that one is question of which is the lesser evil?

I hear a lot of contractors gripe that, when it comes to government contracts, demands by the government to have subcontractors and employees correspond to having a quota enough minorities in their employ, might be overly burdensome in some instances where such proportions are unrealistic given the demographic of the area they are doing business in, and I hear their argument, there.

So, be specific because I prefer to debate specifics.

Interesting. Does your acknowledgment that there are, indeed, ways of assessing affirmative action that produce the result that blacks are, in fact, (in net) harmed, rather than helped by it mean that you either don't care for or actively disdain black people?

Or does it mean that you recognize that an intellectually cogent case can be made that the way in which we have tried to help a group has issues?



I would suggest the latter, as, I'm guessing, you don't either actively disdain or simply not care about African Americans.

And that

Is what I'm trying to get across to you.


People can disagree with left wing policy solutions (and with you, in particular, or any of us) without by definition therefore being hard-hearted, or assholes, even if you don't understand their political, economic, or moral reasoning.
 
When are the folks who perpetrated this hoax going to be held accountable, is my question? Why do students have to be burdened with the lies and misdeeds of others?

When? When they signed the papers. Learn how to develop character. It will serve these naive kids well as they go through life.
 
Does that apply to Trump's 'university' too? How many people did he rip off, and how many do you think will ever see their money again if the precedent of Trump stiffing everyone is an indicator? 'Personal responsibility'? Explain the concept to Trump, because he clearly has no idea what it means.

The conversation relates to forgiving college loans.

It probably makes more sense to post your TDS inspired thoughts to discussions that relate to them.
 
Industry is what demands a college credential, not "liberal politicians." People get degrees because employers demand it, whether it's needed or not.

Not true. I've employed thousands of people over 30+ years, and a college degree was not a deal maker/breaker.

A college degree would be required if I were hiring an engineer, or some other special skill employee.

The fact is, kids bought into the story created.


Tell me, give the kind of liberal arts degrees kids went after, what kind of job did they think they were going to get?


The most relevant general degree any college age student could get would be a degree in Business. Instead, they show up with degrees that rarely have any practical use in the job they are seeking.
 
The conversation relates to forgiving college loans.

It probably makes more sense to post your TDS inspired thoughts to discussions that relate to them.

This conversation needs a little of something called 'balance'. If the truth hurts you I'm not the one responsible. Trump is a fraud who conned people out of their money.
 
Not true. I've employed thousands of people over 30+ years, and a college degree was not a deal maker/breaker.

A college degree would be required if I were hiring an engineer, or some other special skill employee.

The fact is, kids bought into the story created.


Tell me, give the kind of liberal arts degrees kids went after, what kind of job did they think they were going to get?


The most relevant general degree any college age student could get would be a degree in Business. Instead, they show up with degrees that rarely have any practical use in the job they are seeking.

Here are some of the jobs they thought they were going to get. Some pay very well indeed:
What You Can Do With This Degree – Liberal Studies - University of Illinois Springfield - UIS
Of course you can argue that the taxes they pay contribute nothing to the economy. I dare you.
 
Disagreed. Here is why.

At some point in the not too distant past, "high" school was paid for and it became essential to getting a good job. Now, college is the same. Here's the rub. I don't believe college is required, in fact, I believe it is more of a detriment than a good thing now. However, it's a near requirement for a good paying job that keeps people off of government benefits.

Case in point. My company routinely hires college grads for temp positions. You can't even be considered if you don't have a 4 year degree, and the pay starts at $12.50 an hour, which is absolutely absurd given the amount college costs. Until you change the culture at companies, desiring college grads, then your platform continues to fail.

I don't find the complaints of conservatives to be based in reality when it comes to taxation. Yes, you'd be taxed to pay for things like reducing overall student debt burden, or medicare for all. I find it so hypocritical to do so.

Someone paid for you to go to school. The tax payers subsidized your education by subsidizing schools and colleges. No, you didn't "do it all on your own". Someone paid for the roads you drive on, the safety of your vehicle, the cleanliness of your air and water. Someone is paying for your future retirement benefits.

Someone also paid for your kids. Even if you sent them to private school, the public at large subsidized the private school via tax waivers, exemptions, etc. Churches, the same thing.

In the end some of us find it a more noble cause to ensure the foundation of our society remains in tact.

Grossly unethical? Are you delusional? It seems you are vastly disconnected from how wealthy some people are. The democrats are absolutely the opposite of your last sentence - if they're Justice democrats. They don't want the rich to keep getting tons in tax breaks while denying the public adequate healthcare and schooling.

At the end of the day this boils down to one fundamental disagreement; you don't want our tax dollars going to improve the lives of Americans. You'd rather our tax dollars go to bomb Middle Easterners and to the top earners who do not in turn lower prices or hire more people.

first...where the hell do you work where college grads start at $ 12.00 an hour?

i pay that to kids cleaning up dog poop

so either your degrees are worthless....or the company is

12 x 40 x 52 = under 25k annually.....unless the degree us underwater basket weaving someone is getting smoked

maybe, just maybe kids need to look at WHAT they are studying, and HOW it relates to real world jobs
 
Here are some of the jobs they thought they were going to get. Some pay very well indeed:
What You Can Do With This Degree – Liberal Studies - University of Illinois Springfield - UIS
Of course you can argue that the taxes they pay contribute nothing to the economy. I dare you.

Great! Then paying their college loans should be no problem - and certainly inferior people (as the Democratic Party sees it) without college degrees certainly should not be paying for the college educations of those who get college degrees or paying off their loans - since they are going to be making so much more money.
 
Let's face it joko, according to you democrats are wrong on everything. So what else is new?
 
Here are some of the jobs they thought they were going to get. Some pay very well indeed:
What You Can Do With This Degree – Liberal Studies - University of Illinois Springfield - UIS
Of course you can argue that the taxes they pay contribute nothing to the economy. I dare you.

Sure, an Economist can be paid very well. What's the job market look like for Economists?


Consider the first three from the link you posted.

Editor, Journalist, Publicist.

How big is the job market for those positions?


What's the starting salary? What does the industry look like for positions in those fields?

That's the question kids need to think about when making an educational/career decision.

I have no clue what you are railing about regarding taxes. Try to control yourself.
 
first...where the hell do you work where college grads start at $ 12.00 an hour?

i pay that to kids cleaning up dog poop

so either your degrees are worthless....or the company is

12 x 40 x 52 = under 25k annually.....unless the degree us underwater basket weaving someone is getting smoked

maybe, just maybe kids need to look at WHAT they are studying, and HOW it relates to real world jobs

I work for a multinational company that is one of the largest insurance companies in the world.

And that's what they pay for required Bachelor degree positions for new hires.
 
I work for a multinational company that is one of the largest insurance companies in the world.

And that's what they pay for required Bachelor degree positions for new hires.

i worked for TransAmerica for 2 1/2 years straight out of the Air Force....in 1987

as an actuarial accountant....i made 29k annually back then

so not sure what you do, or who you work for....but that is CRAP wages for a degree....no matter what type

find a better job
 
i worked for TransAmerica for 2 1/2 years straight out of the Air Force....in 1987

as an actuarial accountant....i made 29k annually back then

so not sure what you do, or who you work for....but that is CRAP wages for a degree....no matter what type

find a better job

Oh, I'm well paid, I have no issues, personally. But for the new hires it's starvation wages, and it's considered a "good job."
 
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