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Democrats are wrong on free college educations

cpwill said:
:) I appreciate you being a stereotype, but it's a bad one.

In fact, you are incorrect. Conservatives not only tend to give more money to charity, they tend to donate more time, effort, and blood as well. You are confusing "agree's with my politics" with "cares about other people."

It's a common(er) failing on the left. Jonathan Haidt, who is a brilliant moral psychologist and an excellent writer - he's also a left-leaning atheist, which doesn't stop him from being the first two things as well - actually went out and tested it.

...In a study I did with Jesse Graham and Brian Nosek, we tested how well liberals and conservatives could understand each other. We asked more than two thousand American visitors to fill out the Moral Foundations Qyestionnaire. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out normally, answering as themselves. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out as they think a “typical liberal” would respond. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out as a “typical conservative” would respond. This design allowed us to examine the stereotypes that each side held about the other. More important, it allowed us to assess how accurate they were by comparing people’s expectations about “typical” partisans to the actual responses from partisans on the left and the right)’ Who was best able to pretend to be the other?

The results were clear and consistent. Moderates and conservatives were most accurate in their predictions, whether they were pretending to be liberals or conservatives. Liberals were the least accurate, especially those who described themselves as “very liberal.” The biggest errors in the whole study came when liberals answered the Care and Fairness questions while pretending to be conservatives....​



And, again, I think you are conflating unlike things.
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And yet, when it comes to policy, over and over and over again, your typical conservative cares the least. About other americans who are struggling, about minorities, about the world in general.

I don't really care if internally you care. I give a damn that your policy reflects your claims, and overall, it does not.

The same sort of sordid BS has come out showing conservatives are more fear driven, by similarly scholarly researches, all dismissed by conservatives as nonsense. The same can be said of Haidt's work here.

At the end of the day, the conservative policies do not pan out to meet the thesis, and thus, I reject the thesis.
 
j brown's body said:
Its interesting to see so-called conservatives advocate for more government involvement in peoples' lives. This kind of government micro-managing that you are calling for is apt to backfire for a couple of reasons. First, there are any number of degrees that may appear worthless to some, but not to others. For instance, many businesses are looking for liberal arts majors because they are more critical thinkers. Second, the micro- managing can lead to a glut of majors in areas and a shortage in others.

But really, why not encourage people to pursue areas in higher education that interest them, and make it affordable, as it once was? You know 'the pursuit of happiness'? It doesn't have to have a price tag.
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As a liberal arts major (History), I have heard people say that, but only people with Liberal Arts Degrees. Never, actually, the businesses themselves. Nor (and, again, as someone who loves education, and has multiple masters degrees now), am I all that certain that modern liberal arts teaches critical thinking.

Who are these businesses, and where are they?
 
Obscurity said:
And yet, when it comes to policy, over and over and over again, your typical conservative cares the least. About other americans who are struggling, about minorities, about the world in general.
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:yawn: boring close-mindedness and inability to imagine that people of good will might actually come to different conclusions than you based on the same or similar evidence is boring.
 
cpwill said:
:yawn: boring close-mindedness and inability to imagine that people of good will might actually come to different conclusions than you based on the same or similar evidence is boring.
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What "conclusion" can you come to?

Conservatives are on record ending net neutrality; allowing companies to massively raise drug prices; the latest is an anti-seizure medication that is not $40k when 19 years ago it was $40. Conservatives have voted against social security by fiat with their electoral choices.

What's closed minded is IGNORING the evidence of the impact the policy decisions you guys make have on people.
 
Obscurity said:
Do conservatives, or do conservatives not, continue to vote for people like Trump and Bush, who are continuing to wage illegal wars in the ME?
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Obama had 8 years to stop it, he didn't so your question is openly dishonest.
Obscurity said:
Do conservatives, or do conservatives not, continue to cut social safety net budgets, or try to, but increase military spending?
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Defense spending has been the same rough 16-20% for the last 20 years+

And safety net spending is the largest drain on our budget, it needs to be cut.
 
Renae said:
Obama had 8 years to stop it, he didn't so your question is openly dishonest.
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Obama was a center right democrat, and not someone I voted for. But yes, I morally object to his refusal to end those wars. Bush started them; Obama continued them; Trump has also continued them.

Renae said:
Defense spending has been the same rough 16-20% for the last 20 years+
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With no need for it to be so high.

Renae said:
And safety net spending is the largest drain on our budget, it needs to be cut.
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Disagree. I've been paying into SS for my entire adult life. If it gets cut, I lose my investment. Single payer has to be expanded and we need to end this bull**** "free market" healthcare system that has utterly eviscerated our nation.
 
snakestretcher said:
In other words, 'I got mine, screw anyone else. I'm going to church now to help the pastor buy his next Mercedes'.
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Another example of why every Christian should vote straight Republican in every election for every office. Just on this forum, MANY Democrats seek any possible way to convert any topic into attacks against Christians - no other religion.

I don't see Republicans stalking the entire forum injecting attacks against atheists.
 
snakestretcher said:
No, you're whining about spending money unnecessarily so you should know exactly how much you're losing, right? So what is it, or are you simply doing your usual; whining about 'liberals'?
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Liberals are almost extinct in the USA. They abandoned this to be "progressives," which fundamentally supports corporate fascism.
 
Obscurity said:
Disagreed. Here is why.

At some point in the not too distant past, "high" school was paid for and it became essential to getting a good job. Now, college is the same. Here's the rub. I don't believe college is required, in fact, I believe it is more of a detriment than a good thing now. However, it's a near requirement for a good paying job that keeps people off of government benefits.

Case in point. My company routinely hires college grads for temp positions. You can't even be considered if you don't have a 4 year degree, and the pay starts at $12.50 an hour, which is absolutely absurd given the amount college costs. Until you change the culture at companies, desiring college grads, then your platform continues to fail.

Bet you can't find one person with a 4 year technical degree leading to a LICENSE - and an electrician is making $12.50 an hour. Starting pay will be $20 - minimal - full time. Yet YOU say we need millions MORE BA graduates fighting over the $12.50 part time job. Now irrational does it get?

I don't find the complaints of conservatives to be based in reality when it comes to taxation. Yes, you'd be taxed to pay for things like reducing overall student debt burden, or medicare for all. I find it so hypocritical to do so.

Someone paid for you to go to school. The tax payers subsidized your education by subsidizing schools and colleges. No, you didn't "do it all on your own". Someone paid for the roads you drive on, the safety of your vehicle, the cleanliness of your air and water. Someone is paying for your future retirement benefits.

Someone also paid for your kids. Even if you sent them to private school, the public at large subsidized the private school via tax waivers, exemptions, etc. Churches, the same thing.

In the end some of us find it a more noble cause to ensure the foundation of our society remains in tact.

Grossly unethical? Are you delusional? It seems you are vastly disconnected from how wealthy some people are. The democrats are absolutely the opposite of your last sentence - if they're Justice democrats. They don't want the rich to keep getting tons in tax breaks while denying the public adequate healthcare and schooling.

At the end of the day this boils down to one fundamental disagreement; you don't want our tax dollars going to improve the lives of Americans. You'd rather our tax dollars go to bomb Middle Easterners and to the top earners who do not in turn lower prices or hire more people.
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You disproved your own claim. The reason that company pays $12.50 to generic college grads is the glut of college grads. Apparently, you want MORE generic college grads so the company can drop it down to $10 an hour.

As for you expecting the company to be a charity, why don't you be a charity and give some of those college grads at $12.50 an hour?

The Democratic Party even more than the Republican Party works for the global super rich. They want mass immigration to minimize blue collar wages. No tariffs to assure their extreme profits from child sweatshop foreign labor.

It is so extreme that increasingly Democrat politicians are demanding that the government subsidize all of Amazon's, WalMart's and Googles employees $125 to $250 per week - so those companies don't have to pay more - plus want the government to pay for their employee's health insurance too.

Name the Democrat in Congress who has promoted closing any significant degree of tax loopholes by which the super rich pay nothing. You can't. The Democratic Party is not for anything you believe it is. ANY policy they have about economics in REAL effect is to serve the international super rich and their mega corporations, nothing else.
 
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joko104 said:
I disagree with nearly ever position the Democratic Party takes on virtually ever issue, with the exception of some social issues. For this topic, it is my disagreeing on free college educations.

Currently, universities - radically increasing their prices due to government financing loans - are pumping out millions of students with college degrees who can not find a job within their field of study. While there are 44 million student loans and 43 million are paying their loans off - none want to pay their loans. They want to buy cars and a new smart phone every year.

The answer the Democratic Party has? Universities should be pumping out even many millions more students with worthless college degrees - that I am supposed to pay for. Ideally, they want every young person to spend 4 years or more getting worthless degrees that I pay for. There is NO rationality in this whatsoever. No, not everyone can be in some management position where they are paid big bucks to sit and think - otherwise doing nothing.

I spent this weekend with young adults - relatives and friends of relatives. All but one has degrees - but only 1 has a university degree and one currently in university study. The one still in a university is in residency to become a doctor. The others all have degrees in SKILLS - actual, real skills. The only one with a university degree has a highly specialized technical degree in engineering, working hands-on for a manufacturer. The other are a licensed electrician, a welder with numerous certifications, a diesel mechanic, in charge of bookkeeping at a medical facility, and with numerous manufacturers rating for air conditioning repair.

The oldest in their early 30s. They all have nice, new cars, own a home they make payments on, have time and money to travel, and all said they have no employment fears as potential employers battle over them to have them - due to shortage of potential employees who actually know how to do anything of any real value.

I've never heard a Democrat even MENTION what type of university educations should be pursued or financed by the government - ever. They never mention ANY benefit to society in any practical terms. They just assert everyone having a university education is good for the economy, with nothing to back it up. No, 20,000,000 more people with easy-as-pie degrees in communications and other bachelor of arts degrees does not benefit society. It just means there are 15,000,000 more sobbing how unfair life is and bitching about their college loans - due to their stupid gambling on their future.

I would support a program by which industry and the government would determine PRACTICAL REAL skills needs the country has - and then the government financing this to be repaid at a flat 10% of automatic payroll deductions from the person's paycheck regardless of how much or what the employment is until the full amount paid. It would have to be programs approved by that industry/government agency. That benefits our economy and therefore benefits my family and me - since I as a taxpayer am who is putting up the money. Finding a decent electrician or plumber around here is a real challenge.

If a person wants a degree in communications, anthropology, sociology and the other humanities? That is on their own dime and if they borrow the money they MUST pay it back. The government should ONLY pay for educations that benefit us, that we need. We need more doctors and medical technicians. We need more people with skilled minds for their skilled hands. We don't need more people with BA degrees.

As for past college loans. Tough luck, kids. You were adults. You signed. Pay your debts like everyone else. If college grads can't pay their student loans? This is proof college degrees aren't worth much of anything anyway, contrary to the claim otherwise.
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Maybe the answer is to get the government out of the student loan business and put it back in private hands, and stipulate that not every application had to be granted. Yeah, that's rough - call it tough love. Maybe factor in potential earnings into loan decision.


Without the continual hand outs from Uncle Sugar (Sam) maybe colleges would reassess their spending habits and find ways to lower the price of education. Paying profs hundreds of thousands to teach one or two classes a semester doesn't sound like good management to me.
 
Obscurity said:
What "conclusion" can you come to?

Conservatives are on record ending net neutrality; allowing companies to massively raise drug prices; the latest is an anti-seizure medication that is not $40k when 19 years ago it was $40. Conservatives have voted against social security by fiat with their electoral choices.

What's closed minded is IGNORING the evidence of the impact the policy decisions you guys make have on people.
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No, absolutely, you are totally right. Everyone, actually, secretly agrees with you when it comes to policy and good governance, and, therefore, political disagreements aren't the result of differences of opinion, but rather anyone who is different from you being evil
 
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I guess the OP makes sense if you are in principle opposed to an educated public.
 
joko104 said:
Another example of why every Christian should vote straight Republican in every election for every office. Just on this forum, MANY Democrats seek any possible way to convert any topic into attacks against Christians - no other religion.
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I can't stand any religion. It is organized, deliberately poor thinking.
 
Renae said:
Just wait, if today's young moron generation manages to put someone like Warren or Sanders in place and they forgive student debt/free college, the next thing will be "Housing debt relief"....
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Yep. How crazy would that be that in a rich country like the USA, all Americans had a roof over their head.
 
Obscurity said:
Disagreed. Here is why.

At some point in the not too distant past, "high" school was paid for and it became essential to getting a good job. Now, college is the same. Here's the rub. I don't believe college is required, in fact, I believe it is more of a detriment than a good thing now. However, it's a near requirement for a good paying job that keeps people off of government benefits.
Click to expand...

I agree with the rest but cut it off there for space. I'd just like to add that for people who are older (and I'm one of them - graduated undergrad in 1985), we all went to school when a public college was FAR more affordable than it is now. So we can sit back and say, "We did it on our own!!" but don't account for the fact that the share of college funded by taxes has declined as the share of total costs paid by tuition has almost doubled just since 1988, as total tuition itself has skyrocketed. So they're paying a much larger share of a much bigger number.

In my generation, many people could work and fund the vast majority of their tuition costs, and still graduate in decent shape financially. It's no accident that young people today are so upset by college, and it's because they're facing a funding problem that is pretty unique to them.

8-22-17highered_f8.png


Case in point. My company routinely hires college grads for temp positions. You can't even be considered if you don't have a 4 year degree, and the pay starts at $12.50 an hour, which is absolutely absurd given the amount college costs. Until you change the culture at companies, desiring college grads, then your platform continues to fail.

I don't find the complaints of conservatives to be based in reality when it comes to taxation. Yes, you'd be taxed to pay for things like reducing overall student debt burden, or medicare for all. I find it so hypocritical to do so.

Someone paid for you to go to school. The tax payers subsidized your education by subsidizing schools and colleges. No, you didn't "do it all on your own". Someone paid for the roads you drive on, the safety of your vehicle, the cleanliness of your air and water. Someone is paying for your future retirement benefits.

Someone also paid for your kids. Even if you sent them to private school, the public at large subsidized the private school via tax waivers, exemptions, etc. Churches, the same thing.

In the end some of us find it a more noble cause to ensure the foundation of our society remains in tact.

Grossly unethical? Are you delusional? It seems you are vastly disconnected from how wealthy some people are. The democrats are absolutely the opposite of your last sentence - if they're Justice democrats. They don't want the rich to keep getting tons in tax breaks while denying the public adequate healthcare and schooling.

At the end of the day this boils down to one fundamental disagreement; you don't want our tax dollars going to improve the lives of Americans. You'd rather our tax dollars go to bomb Middle Easterners and to the top earners who do not in turn lower prices or hire more people.[/QUOTE]
 
joko104 said:
I disagree with nearly ever position the Democratic Party takes on virtually ever issue, with the exception of some social issues. For this topic, it is my disagreeing on free college educations.

Currently, universities - radically increasing their prices due to government financing loans - are pumping out millions of students with college degrees who can not find a job within their field of study. While there are 44 million student loans and 43 million are paying their loans off - none want to pay their loans. They want to buy cars and a new smart phone every year.

The answer the Democratic Party has? Universities should be pumping out even many millions more students with worthless college degrees - that I am supposed to pay for. Ideally, they want every young person to spend 4 years or more getting worthless degrees that I pay for. There is NO rationality in this whatsoever. No, not everyone can be in some management position where they are paid big bucks to sit and think - otherwise doing nothing.

I spent this weekend with young adults - relatives and friends of relatives. All but one has degrees - but only 1 has a university degree and one currently in university study. The one still in a university is in residency to become a doctor. The others all have degrees in SKILLS - actual, real skills. The only one with a university degree has a highly specialized technical degree in engineering, working hands-on for a manufacturer. The other are a licensed electrician, a welder with numerous certifications, a diesel mechanic, in charge of bookkeeping at a medical facility, and with numerous manufacturers rating for air conditioning repair.

The oldest in their early 30s. They all have nice, new cars, own a home they make payments on, have time and money to travel, and all said they have no employment fears as potential employers battle over them to have them - due to shortage of potential employees who actually know how to do anything of any real value.

I've never heard a Democrat even MENTION what type of university educations should be pursued or financed by the government - ever. They never mention ANY benefit to society in any practical terms. They just assert everyone having a university education is good for the economy, with nothing to back it up. No, 20,000,000 more people with easy-as-pie degrees in communications and other bachelor of arts degrees does not benefit society. It just means there are 15,000,000 more sobbing how unfair life is and bitching about their college loans - due to their stupid gambling on their future.

I would support a program by which industry and the government would determine PRACTICAL REAL skills needs the country has - and then the government financing this to be repaid at a flat 10% of automatic payroll deductions from the person's paycheck regardless of how much or what the employment is until the full amount paid. It would have to be programs approved by that industry/government agency. That benefits our economy and therefore benefits my family and me - since I as a taxpayer am who is putting up the money. Finding a decent electrician or plumber around here is a real challenge.

If a person wants a degree in communications, anthropology, sociology and the other humanities? That is on their own dime and if they borrow the money they MUST pay it back. The government should ONLY pay for educations that benefit us, that we need. We need more doctors and medical technicians. We need more people with skilled minds for their skilled hands. We don't need more people with BA degrees.

As for past college loans. Tough luck, kids. You were adults. You signed. Pay your debts like everyone else. If college grads can't pay their student loans? This is proof college degrees aren't worth much of anything anyway, contrary to the claim otherwise.
Click to expand...

I also don't agree with free tuition but for different reasons. I think online degrees are the future. You learn online and maybe take certification exams for your profession. The high cost of college will make this a more popular alternative. But if things are free then people will go to physical schools.
 
cpwill said:
No, absolutely, you are totally right. Everyone, actually, secretly agrees with you when it comes to policy and good governance, and, therefore, political disagreements aren't the result of differences of opinion, but rather anyone who is different from you being evil
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The policies you support have the opposite effect than promised.

Ergo, based on historical fact, I stand by my assertion.
 
Obscurity said:
The policies you support have the opposite effect than promised.

Ergo, based on historical fact, I stand by my assertion.
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1. You are incorrect, not least, I suspect, because you are not well versed in the policies I support.

2. However, I certainly think that left-leaning policies often have the opposite effect of that which is intended. Measures to help the poor often hurt them. Government spending on something to make it more affordable often makes it less so over time.

2.A. That, however, doesn't mean that liberals, in fact, want to hurt the poor, or don't care if they do. It means they disagree with me on questions of public policy, both in terms of preferable ends and the best means for shared ends.


Don't fall into the trap of confusing disagreement over how to do something with disagreement over whether it should be done.

Similarly, people can reasonably disagree on the appropriate things that should be done through variant levels of government without rancor.

If you're going to accuse someone of disagreeing with you not because they've come to a different conclusion, or because they believe differently than you, but because they are evil, you better have your ducks in a row. And "well I disagree with his policies and think they haven't worked well before" ain't it.
 
joko104 said:
I disagree with nearly ever position the Democratic Party takes on virtually ever issue, with the exception of some social issues. For this topic, it is my disagreeing on free college educations.

Currently, universities - radically increasing their prices due to government financing loans - are pumping out millions of students with college degrees who can not find a job within their field of study. While there are 44 million student loans and 43 million are paying their loans off - none want to pay their loans. They want to buy cars and a new smart phone every year.

The answer the Democratic Party has? Universities should be pumping out even many millions more students with worthless college degrees - that I am supposed to pay for. Ideally, they want every young person to spend 4 years or more getting worthless degrees that I pay for. There is NO rationality in this whatsoever. No, not everyone can be in some management position where they are paid big bucks to sit and think - otherwise doing nothing.

I spent this weekend with young adults - relatives and friends of relatives. All but one has degrees - but only 1 has a university degree and one currently in university study. The one still in a university is in residency to become a doctor. The others all have degrees in SKILLS - actual, real skills. The only one with a university degree has a highly specialized technical degree in engineering, working hands-on for a manufacturer. The other are a licensed electrician, a welder with numerous certifications, a diesel mechanic, in charge of bookkeeping at a medical facility, and with numerous manufacturers rating for air conditioning repair.

The oldest in their early 30s. They all have nice, new cars, own a home they make payments on, have time and money to travel, and all said they have no employment fears as potential employers battle over them to have them - due to shortage of potential employees who actually know how to do anything of any real value.

I've never heard a Democrat even MENTION what type of university educations should be pursued or financed by the government - ever. They never mention ANY benefit to society in any practical terms. They just assert everyone having a university education is good for the economy, with nothing to back it up. No, 20,000,000 more people with easy-as-pie degrees in communications and other bachelor of arts degrees does not benefit society. It just means there are 15,000,000 more sobbing how unfair life is and bitching about their college loans - due to their stupid gambling on their future.

I would support a program by which industry and the government would determine PRACTICAL REAL skills needs the country has - and then the government financing this to be repaid at a flat 10% of automatic payroll deductions from the person's paycheck regardless of how much or what the employment is until the full amount paid. It would have to be programs approved by that industry/government agency. That benefits our economy and therefore benefits my family and me - since I as a taxpayer am who is putting up the money. Finding a decent electrician or plumber around here is a real challenge.

If a person wants a degree in communications, anthropology, sociology and the other humanities? That is on their own dime and if they borrow the money they MUST pay it back. The government should ONLY pay for educations that benefit us, that we need. We need more doctors and medical technicians. We need more people with skilled minds for their skilled hands. We don't need more people with BA degrees.

As for past college loans. Tough luck, kids. You were adults. You signed. Pay your debts like everyone else. If college grads can't pay their student loans? This is proof college degrees aren't worth much of anything anyway, contrary to the claim otherwise.
Click to expand...

For college loans, they shouldn't be gauranteed by the government, and the same standards of creditworthiness should be made. this idea of giving loans to anyone, even if bad credit, to students as long as they can breathe fog on a mirror, and if they take the money and default, they can't toss it in bankruptcy, i.e., the gov has collection priviledges that no private enterprize has where they hunt the student until his dying days, this, to me, is wrong. Do you know that, if a student defaults, that some 30 years later the DOE can shift the loan over to the DOJ, with it's unlimited resources for collection. No business can do that.

I like the system in California where one can go to college for pennies ( via communitiy college ) to sophomore, and transfer to state college for the last two years and pay for those two years, noting that the first two years are those "general" classes for the purpose of making students "well rounded", ( whatever that means ). The CA system makes sense to me.
 
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JasperL said:
I agree with the rest but cut it off there for space. I'd just like to add that for people who are older (and I'm one of them - graduated undergrad in 1985), we all went to school when a public college was FAR more affordable than it is now. So we can sit back and say, "We did it on our own!!" but don't account for the fact that the share of college funded by taxes has declined as the share of total costs paid by tuition has almost doubled just since 1988, as total tuition itself has skyrocketed. So they're paying a much larger share of a much bigger number.

In my generation, many people could work and fund the vast majority of their tuition costs, and still graduate in decent shape financially. It's no accident that young people today are so upset by college, and it's because they're facing a funding problem that is pretty unique to them.

8-22-17highered_f8.png


Case in point. My company routinely hires college grads for temp positions. You can't even be considered if you don't have a 4 year degree, and the pay starts at $12.50 an hour, which is absolutely absurd given the amount college costs. Until you change the culture at companies, desiring college grads, then your platform continues to fail.

I don't find the complaints of conservatives to be based in reality when it comes to taxation. Yes, you'd be taxed to pay for things like reducing overall student debt burden, or medicare for all. I find it so hypocritical to do so.

Someone paid for you to go to school. The tax payers subsidized your education by subsidizing schools and colleges. No, you didn't "do it all on your own". Someone paid for the roads you drive on, the safety of your vehicle, the cleanliness of your air and water. Someone is paying for your future retirement benefits.

Someone also paid for your kids. Even if you sent them to private school, the public at large subsidized the private school via tax waivers, exemptions, etc. Churches, the same thing.

In the end some of us find it a more noble cause to ensure the foundation of our society remains in tact.

Grossly unethical? Are you delusional? It seems you are vastly disconnected from how wealthy some people are. The democrats are absolutely the opposite of your last sentence - if they're Justice democrats. They don't want the rich to keep getting tons in tax breaks while denying the public adequate healthcare and schooling.

At the end of the day this boils down to one fundamental disagreement; you don't want our tax dollars going to improve the lives of Americans. You'd rather our tax dollars go to bomb Middle Easterners and to the top earners who do not in turn lower prices or hire more people.
Click to expand...


I'd support a law that disallows arbitrary degree requirement, as you have described.
 
joko104 said:
I disagree with nearly ever position the Democratic Party takes on virtually ever issue, with the exception of some social issues. For this topic, it is my disagreeing on free college educations.

Currently, universities - radically increasing their prices due to government financing loans - are pumping out millions of students with college degrees who can not find a job within their field of study. While there are 44 million student loans and 43 million are paying their loans off - none want to pay their loans. They want to buy cars and a new smart phone every year.

The answer the Democratic Party has? Universities should be pumping out even many millions more students with worthless college degrees - that I am supposed to pay for. Ideally, they want every young person to spend 4 years or more getting worthless degrees that I pay for. There is NO rationality in this whatsoever. No, not everyone can be in some management position where they are paid big bucks to sit and think - otherwise doing nothing.

I spent this weekend with young adults - relatives and friends of relatives. All but one has degrees - but only 1 has a university degree and one currently in university study. The one still in a university is in residency to become a doctor. The others all have degrees in SKILLS - actual, real skills. The only one with a university degree has a highly specialized technical degree in engineering, working hands-on for a manufacturer. The other are a licensed electrician, a welder with numerous certifications, a diesel mechanic, in charge of bookkeeping at a medical facility, and with numerous manufacturers rating for air conditioning repair.

The oldest in their early 30s. They all have nice, new cars, own a home they make payments on, have time and money to travel, and all said they have no employment fears as potential employers battle over them to have them - due to shortage of potential employees who actually know how to do anything of any real value.

I've never heard a Democrat even MENTION what type of university educations should be pursued or financed by the government - ever. They never mention ANY benefit to society in any practical terms. They just assert everyone having a university education is good for the economy, with nothing to back it up. No, 20,000,000 more people with easy-as-pie degrees in communications and other bachelor of arts degrees does not benefit society. It just means there are 15,000,000 more sobbing how unfair life is and bitching about their college loans - due to their stupid gambling on their future.

I would support a program by which industry and the government would determine PRACTICAL REAL skills needs the country has - and then the government financing this to be repaid at a flat 10% of automatic payroll deductions from the person's paycheck regardless of how much or what the employment is until the full amount paid. It would have to be programs approved by that industry/government agency. That benefits our economy and therefore benefits my family and me - since I as a taxpayer am who is putting up the money. Finding a decent electrician or plumber around here is a real challenge.

If a person wants a degree in communications, anthropology, sociology and the other humanities? That is on their own dime and if they borrow the money they MUST pay it back. The government should ONLY pay for educations that benefit us, that we need. We need more doctors and medical technicians. We need more people with skilled minds for their skilled hands. We don't need more people with BA degrees.

As for past college loans. Tough luck, kids. You were adults. You signed. Pay your debts like everyone else. If college grads can't pay their student loans? This is proof college degrees aren't worth much of anything anyway, contrary to the claim otherwise.
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Well, this is an issue of education in total.

Should education be traditional or should it be about giving kids the skills they need to be functioning adults and functioning workers doing the jobs that are needed in society?

I'd go for the latter. Many kids should be trained and prepared for the workforce by the time they're 18. They're generally not in the US or most countries.

In Germany and Austria they have technical schools which give kids these skills though. Much better system.
 
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