America's Real Economy: It Isn't Booming.

and the 25% tariffs, let's see what the ledger looks like towards the end of Trump's 4 years.

America's Real Economy: It Isn't Booming

The Nation recently published a stunning overview of the working poor and underpaid. One of the most powerful data points in the piece described how empty the decline in unemployment actually is: having a job doesn’t exempt anyone from poverty anymore. About 12% of Americans (43 million) are considered poor, and yet they are employed. They earn an individual income below $12,140 per year, and slightly more than that for a family of two. If you include housing and medical expenses in the calculation, it raises the percentage of Americans living in poverty to 14%. That’s 45 million people.

At that level of income, there’s almost no way to pay for food and shelter in any sizeable American city. That means people now can both be employed and homeless.

One-third of all workers earn less than $12 an hour and 42% earn less than $15. That’s $24,960 and $31,200 a year. Imagine raising a family on such incomes, figuring in the cost of food, rent, childcare, car payments (since a car is often a necessity simply to get to a job in a country with inadequate public transportation), and medical costs.

Even in households that combine income from two wage-earners, it’s rarely enough to live on without anxieties about money. It takes an average of a little more than $100,000 per year now for a household to be able to live without anxieties about money.

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OscarLevant said:

and the 25% tariffs, let's see what the ledger looks like towards the end of Trump's 4 years.

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And should one of the members of the household get sick. That's where the fun really begins in America.

Don't worry someone will come along and say.
No one told you to start a family while your earning so little (oh yeah but make abortion illegal)
They will also tell you, move, that's enough money in lots of places to live.
Can't think of all the rest of the nonsense that will be said.

Oh yeah let's not forget the picking thru the article and finding one misinterpreted quote to make their point.

OscarLevant said:

and the 25% tariffs, let's see what the ledger looks like towards the end of Trump's 4 years.

Click to expand...

I've had anxieties about money my whole life...and I've never been poor and I've never earned more than $100,000 per year. I've always been able to make ends meet by adjusting my ends.

btw, don't forget to factor in the cost of cell phones, internet, cable, a 50+ inch TV, AC, computers, a PS4, etc. Americans can't live without that stuff either. Right?

Oh...and what does "the 25% tariffs" have to do with this?

Mycroft said:

I've had anxieties about money my whole life...and I've never been poor and I've never earned more than $100,000 per year. I've always been able to make ends meet by adjusting my ends.

btw, don't forget to factor in the cost of cell phones, internet, cable, a 50+ inch TV, AC, computers, a PS4, etc. Americans can't live without that stuff either. Right?

Oh...and what does "the 25% tariffs" have to do with this?

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I love how you guys criticize that over-consumption, and yet defend the economic system which requires the working class to be milked as efficiently as possible. The transition to a consumer led economy was willful, and the expansion of credit, necessary in order to compensate for the relative stagnation of wages. This is Post-Industrial Capitalism.

If everyone lived like David Ramsey, Capitalism would fall on its face.

OscarLevant said:

and the 25% tariffs, let's see what the ledger looks like towards the end of Trump's 4 years.

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Gigs, assignments, McJobs, Uber, Lyft, Amazon, Walmart, GrubHub, no security, little to no overtime, no benefits and no future.
Nomadic minimum wage dead end tracks to nowhere, and the more of these jobs one works, the more surely one is condemned to a life of it with little to no way out unless one wins the lottery or inherits a fat nest egg to pay to retrain, because that is considered a luxury rather than an investment in our future, a future of revenue lock boxes supposedly stored up to pay debts a generation in the future, money which will never reach its promised destination but instead be reappropriated by cheap political hucksters and grifters.

For the upper middle and upper class, the economy is roaring, but the working stiffs "don't feel it".
Four in ten of them can't carry a four hundred dollar emergency, and the right ignores this fact.

Mycroft said:

btw, don't forget to factor in the cost of cell phones, internet, cable, a 50+ inch TV, AC, computers, a PS4, etc. Americans can't live without that stuff either. Right?

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The poor don't have the latest cell phones, they have unlocked bargains off Craigslist, they have basic cable and 6mbps internet for $25 a month, and a 32 inch TV, a window AC and a hand me down computer, also from eBay or Craigslist just like the PS4.

Since you make a hundred grand a year it's safe to assume you spent 1800 to 2500 on your TV set.

Welcome to how the other half lives...

Sharp 32 inch LED HDTV for $99.00

You seem to think this crap is expensive or something. Are you actually so young that you don't remember how much a 13 inch b/w TV set cost in the old days, or so naive that you don't realize that technology is cheap when you buy it in the hood?
By the way I can get you that same 32 inch HDTV for 40 bucks at a yard sale, give me two days.

Even when I was making more money than God and I had my own studio in North Hollywood I did not plunk down $48,000.00 for a brand new Ampex ADO system, I bought a "working pull" from a TV station that was upgrading for $18,000.00 at The Broadcast Store in Burbank, one year warranty included.

I bought my multi-camera switcher there too at bargain prices.

Mycroft, I can even get you an iPhone cheap!

How about $120.00?

OscarLevant said:

and the 25% tariffs, let's see what the ledger looks like towards the end of Trump's 4 years.

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And to combat those low wages, America refuses to close the borders allowing more even poorer, more desperate citizens of the world.

Mycroft said:

I've had anxieties about money my whole life...and I've never been poor and I've never earned more than $100,000 per year. I've always been able to make ends meet by adjusting my ends.

btw, don't forget to factor in the cost of cell phones, internet, cable, a 50+ inch TV, AC, computers, a PS4, etc. Americans can't live without that stuff either. Right?

Oh...and what does "the 25% tariffs" have to do with this?

Click to expand...

My favorite part of this is that the people who think America is the greatest country in the world and that it's okay for Donald Trump to be able to have a ****ing golden toilet thinks the rest of us should live like starving African children lmao

Move to a 3rd world country if you wanna feel better than everyone else, cuz in the civilized world, people expect to be able to live without worrying about dying of heatstroke in their sleep.

In 1981 I strolled into Art's Jewelry and Loan on 2nd Street in Santa Monica and spied this gem (a Thomson MC-301 and Sony VO-6800 VTR) in the front window.



I asked the price and Art sneered, "You can't afford it, that's a professional camera, you got any idea what that thing's worth?"
I played dumb and he retorted, "About two thousand bucks, I'll let you have the whole rig for $1600, price only good today."

I was back in twenty minutes with the money and walked out with my thirteen thousand dollar camera and six thousand dollar VTR.
Next time I walked into Art's he threatened me with a baseball bat, he was so pissed off.

I KNOW HOW to buy in the hood, you name it and I can get it for you if it's technology you're after.
I wound up buying three more Thomsons in short order, and a switcher, and the rest was history.

nekrodev said:

My favorite part of this is that the people who think America is the greatest country in the world and that it's okay for Donald Trump to be able to have a ****ing golden toilet thinks the rest of us should live like starving African children lmao

Move to a 3rd world country if you wanna feel better than everyone else, cuz in the civilized world, people expect to be able to live without worrying about dying of heatstroke in their sleep.

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When the right snorts indignantly that there's no poverty in America "because the poor have refrigerators and a Nintendo" it's almost as if their only definition of poverty is emaciated children covered with flies, with bellies distended with kwashiorkor.

They're not describing the poor, they're describing THE DYING.
Is that really how far down they want the bar to be set in America?
You can die at forty from heart disease due to a poor diet and a dead end existence in America or you can die at forty in South Sudan...as long as you don't mind trying to ignore the fact that ignoring an infection in the feet and hands of the host body leads to the infection taking over the entire body and killing the host.

OscarLevant said:

and the 25% tariffs, let's see what the ledger looks like towards the end of Trump's 4 years.

Click to expand...

From the article:

"One-third of all workers earn less than $12 an hour and 42% earn less than $15. That’s $24,960 and $31,200 a year. Imagine raising a family on such incomes, figuring in the cost of food, rent, childcare, car payments (since a car is often a necessity simply to get to a job in a country with inadequate public transportation), and medical costs.

Even in households that combine income from two wage-earners, it’s rarely enough to live on without anxieties about money. It takes an average of a little more than $100,000 per year now for a household to be able to live without anxieties about money."

At the same time the claim is made it costs over $100,000 a year to "live without anxiety" - they'll claim people that live in areas with astronomically high housing costs make more money than people who live in the South - where a nice 3-2-2 frame house on a 1/4th acre lot in a decent part of two can be had for under $100,000 - or payments under $1000 a month.

NEVER believe the leftwing media on economics. Any family can live very comfortably on $50K a year - unless they try to live like someone making or live in communities where housing - and state and local taxes - are astronomically high (which of course the article doesn't mention).

Here's why a family making $100,000 can't make it in California:

Federal tax: - $23,060
State income tax: $9,300

$100,000 - 32,900 = $67,100.

Now add sales tax, property tax, utility tax, registration fees, telephone bill tax, excise taxes, tolls...

So of the $100,000 - the government takes 50%!

The average house price in San Francisco: $1.62 million

So, true, a person can not make it in San Francisco on $100,000 - with the government letting them keep $50,000 for houses selling for $1,000,000.

Or, they could buy this 3-1, 1400 square feet, in Wolf City Texas, about 1 hour out of Dallas, for $75,000 :



Monthly payment: About $450 on a small down payment. $600 with insurance. Plus ZERO state income tax.

NOTE: Name ANY TIME in world history with working people none of whom EVER had any "anxiety about money?"

nekrodev said:

My favorite part of this is that the people who think America is the greatest country in the world and that it's okay for Donald Trump to be able to have a ****ing golden toilet thinks the rest of us should live like starving African children lmao

Move to a 3rd world country if you wanna feel better than everyone else, cuz in the civilized world, people expect to be able to live without worrying about dying of heatstroke in their sleep.

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Reading that message, how can you live in such a constant state of what I read to be delusional false hatred of the USA?

NO ONE in the USA is living like "starving African children" or dies "of heatstroke in their sleep."

joko104 said:

So, true, a person can not make it in San Francisco on $100,000 - with the government letting them keep $50,000 for houses selling for $1,000,000.

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joko104 said:

Reading that message, how can you live in such a constant state of what I read to be delusional false hatred of the USA?

NO ONE in the USA is living like "starving African children" or dies "of heatstroke in their sleep."

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soooo, you can't read...got it...

Checkerboard Strangler said:

When the right snorts indignantly that there's no poverty in America "because the poor have refrigerators and a Nintendo" it's almost as if their only definition of poverty is emaciated children covered with flies, with bellies distended with kwashiorkor.

They're not describing the poor, they're describing THE DYING.
Is that really how far down they want the bar to be set in America?
You can die at forty from heart disease due to a poor diet and a dead end existence in America or you can die at forty in South Sudan...as long as you don't mind trying to ignore the fact that ignoring an infection in the feet and hands of the host body leads to the infection taking over the entire body and killing the host.

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I'm sorry to read your life is going so badly. Where in the USA do you live that you are dying of heart disease due to a poor diet?

nekrodev said:

soooo, you can't read...got it...

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Liberal paradises where the rich white people create zoning laws to make certain there is no housing for lower income people due to their HATRED of lower income people are not the only places to live in the USA.

Rather than bitch about how they government should pay their servants and workers more so they don't have to, why don't they pay their Latino and black servants, yard workers and nannies more of their money?

nekrodev said:

soooo, you can't read...got it...

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Why not just admit you have no response to proof the OP claim is just outright typical Democrat corporate-fascist lie?

TrueScotsman said:

And should one of the members of the household get sick. That's where the fun really begins in America.

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Everyone loves getting sick in the EU. :roll:

joko104 said:

I'm sorry to read your life is going so badly. Where in the USA do you live that you are dying of heart disease due to a poor diet?

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The deep south

joko104 said:

Everyone loves getting sick in the EU. :roll:

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At least you won't go bankrupt

TrueScotsman said:

I love how you guys criticize that over-consumption, and yet defend the economic system which requires the working class to be milked as efficiently as possible. The transition to a consumer led economy was willful, and the expansion of credit, necessary in order to compensate for the relative stagnation of wages. This is Post-Industrial Capitalism.

If everyone lived like David Ramsey, Capitalism would fall on its face.

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What you are describing is not the result of capitalism. It's the result of globalism. It is the globalists who control what people buy, what they pay for it, what jobs they have available and how much they are paid.

If you want to see what capitalism brings people, look at what Trump is bringing about: lower unemployment, higher wages, low inflation, increased US manufacturing, higher confidence in the economy, etc.

And look at who is fighting Trump: Wall Street (globalist corporations), their bankers, their lobbyists and the bought and paid for political leaders.

OscarLevant said:

and the 25% tariffs, let's see what the ledger looks like towards the end of Trump's 4 years.

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So what solution do you propose?

TrueScotsman said:

And should one of the members of the household get sick. That's where the fun really begins in America.

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Aside from snark without solutions, I agree, too many of us are just an illness away from losing everything. That must be changed, but it has little to do with the attempt to bring jobs back.
Lets talk single payer hc, and I'm on board.

Middle_Ground said:

Don't worry someone will come along and say.
No one told you to start a family while your earning so little (oh yeah but make abortion illegal)
They will also tell you, move, that's enough money in lots of places to live.
Can't think of all the rest of the nonsense that will be said.

Oh yeah let's not forget the picking thru the article and finding one misinterpreted quote to make their point.

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BS, he is saying that one should try to live within our means. I have no stats on that, but I can imagine that too many of us spend above our means, buy luxury items instead of saving for necessities.

TrueScotsman said:

I love how you guys criticize that over-consumption, and yet defend the economic system which requires the working class to be milked as efficiently as possible. The transition to a consumer led economy was willful, and the expansion of credit, necessary in order to compensate for the relative stagnation of wages. This is Post-Industrial Capitalism.

If everyone lived like David Ramsey, Capitalism would fall on its face.

Click to expand...

We won't change that over night, but the assessment is still valid.

chuckiechan said:

And to combat those low wages, America refuses to close the borders allowing more even poorer, more desperate citizens of the world.

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That is a good point. However, it is also true that many of us can't be bothered with some jobs. We have to fill them somehow.

Middle_Ground said:

Don't worry someone will come along and say.
No one told you to start a family while your earning so little (oh yeah but make abortion illegal)
They will also tell you, move, that's enough money in lots of places to live.
Can't think of all the rest of the nonsense that will be said.

Oh yeah let's not forget the picking thru the article and finding one misinterpreted quote to make their point.

Click to expand...

Well that depends on who’s the one that’s poor. If their skin tone is darker, sure- they just need to stop being lazy and work more. If it’s lighter, it’s because of unfair liberal policies, illegal immigrants, and globalism.