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Democratic socialists use Sweden and the Nordic countries as an example, but....

Grandpappy

Grandpappy

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Have you been keeping up with events in Sweden? Is this the end game of Democratic socialism? Or maybe just the end of unrealistic policies.

It's Time for Sweden to Admit Explosions Are a National Emergency - Quillette


"Before any specific issues can be addressed the Swedish government must acknowledge the severity of the matter. In the past few years, the rise in violent crime in Sweden has attracted growing attention from international media. How has the Swedish government responded? By launching an elaborate PR campaign for foreign audiences that plays down the challenges—especially those in the country’s immigrant areas. Nothing will change if the government continues to respond to the reality in the streets with cynical rhetorical spin."
 
Grandpappy said:
Have you been keeping up with events in Sweden? Is this the end game of Democratic socialism? Or maybe just the end of unrealistic policies.

It's Time for Sweden to Admit Explosions Are a National Emergency - Quillette


"Before any specific issues can be addressed the Swedish government must acknowledge the severity of the matter. In the past few years, the rise in violent crime in Sweden has attracted growing attention from international media. How has the Swedish government responded? By launching an elaborate PR campaign for foreign audiences that plays down the challenges—especially those in the country’s immigrant areas. Nothing will change if the government continues to respond to the reality in the streets with cynical rhetorical spin."
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The US a murder rate over five times higher than Sweden does. Seems that we should be copying their methods of crime reduction, not criticizing them.
 
I weep when I think of the country that I once idolized.

As a teenager in the 1950s, I fantasized about moving to Sweden, a beautiful, peaceful, and prosperous country that had found a middle way between capitalism and socialism.

Now because of the Middle East chaos and subsequent naivety of some Swedish politicians, the country is in distress (as described in the OP).


I am praying that Norway and Finland avoid going down that road.
 
Quillette is an Australian right-leaning blog that employs loaded language. Editor and Founder Claire Lehmann is considered a part of the Intellectual Dark Web, intellectual conservatives who simply do not like the liberal left. Furthermore, Lehmann believes that “nationalism is the antidote to racism.” In general, Quillette promotes right leaning positions and supports questionable viewpoints regarding racism.
 
Sweden is a tiny resource rich country of 10 million people where the GDP per capita is almost $10k less than for US citizens coupled with crippling taxes(if you want to trade personal economic freedom for a nanny state). They also are not plagued by self influcted social ills to the same degree that the US is when looking at things like single parenthood, obesity rates, etc. I'd challenge anyone to try and illegally immigrate there and see what happens as well.
 
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Some great nuggets in the comment section, which show just about where the IDW is at now.

In the US, feminism and war seem to go hand in hand. Consider the stunning contributions made towards peace since 1997 by overt feminists like Madeline Albright, Hillary Clinton, Samantha Power, Susan Rice, Condoleezza Rice and Victoria Nuland. As more women have entered policy making positions the wars and social disorder have increased and now seem to be permanent.

As the Albright said, What good is all this military power if you won’t use it?
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Hillary Clibton a pacifist? Go kill yourself, that evil ***** has been involved in war and massacres on our countries since the 90’s, she even ordered the murder of some of our human right activists
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All nations experience difficulties, our own Capitalist society has a much worse issue with gang related violence than Sweden, so I don't see where we get the right to preach to them. People in that country are on average more educated, living longer healthier and happier lives. I don't know enough about organized crime in Sweden to really comment further, but its safe to say that the history of Capitalism indicates that it does not eliminate black markets which perpetuate organized crime. Sweden is a Social Democracy, which is still relatively Free Market.
 
digsbe said:
Sweden is a tiny resource rich country of 10 million people where the GDP per capita is almost $10k less than for US citizens. They also are not plagued by self influcted social ills to the same degree that the US is when looking at things like single parenthood, obesity rates, etc. I'd challenge anyone to try and illegally immigrate there and see what happens as well.
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While I think they've had some issues with immigrants (overblown by Right Wingers), I don't think this particular one is especially tied to them. Gangs it seems like to use hand grenades, which have increased incidents of use in recent years. Its just another club for which the Right to use to bludgeon the Left. All part of the hyper partisan machinery.
 
what does this even have to do with democratic socialism? this is a single policy issue that isn't even necessarily tied to the economy or their healthcare or education systems, which are why they are used as examples.
 
Grandpappy said:
Have you been keeping up with events in Sweden? Is this the end game of Democratic socialism? Or maybe just the end of unrealistic policies.

It's Time for Sweden to Admit Explosions Are a National Emergency - Quillette


"Before any specific issues can be addressed the Swedish government must acknowledge the severity of the matter. In the past few years, the rise in violent crime in Sweden has attracted growing attention from international media. How has the Swedish government responded? By launching an elaborate PR campaign for foreign audiences that plays down the challenges—especially those in the country’s immigrant areas. Nothing will change if the government continues to respond to the reality in the streets with cynical rhetorical spin."
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What in hell do you think this has to do with socialism? Do mass murders and school shootings in America mean the end game of capitalism?
Christ. What a stupid post. Think a bit before you start threads here, willya?
 
Grand Mal said:
What in hell do you think this has to do with socialism? Do mass murders and school shootings in America mean the end game of capitalism?
Christ. What a stupid post. Think a bit before you start threads here, willya?
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First, the USA is more populated, and going by base percentage alone, has more nutjobs doing mass shootings/murders. Second, lax immigration policies with no regard or consideration for cultural differences is just bad policy.
You see the results. The right wing taking hold in Europe.
Common sense..that's what's needed, and what there seems to be a severe lack of.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Quillette is an Australian right-leaning blog that employs loaded language. Editor and Founder Claire Lehmann is considered a part of the Intellectual Dark Web, intellectual conservatives who simply do not like the liberal left. Furthermore, Lehmann believes that “nationalism is the antidote to racism.” In general, Quillette promotes right leaning positions and supports questionable viewpoints regarding racism.
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Blah blah blah, not an argument
 
TrueScotsman said:
Some great nuggets in the comment section, which show just about where the IDW is at now.





All nations experience difficulties, our own Capitalist society has a much worse issue with gang related violence than Sweden, so I don't see where we get the right to preach to them. People in that country are on average more educated, living longer healthier and happier lives. I don't know enough about organized crime in Sweden to really comment further, but its safe to say that the history of Capitalism indicates that it does not eliminate black markets which perpetuate organized crime. Sweden is a Social Democracy, which is still relatively Free Market.
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Why not? Other countries criticize us all the time.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
trouble13 said:
Why not? Other countries criticize us all the time.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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yeah, other countries who are doing better at whatever they're criticizing us about lol

but, of course conservatives wouldn't understand hypocrisy.
 
Grandpappy said:
Have you been keeping up with events in Sweden? Is this the end game of Democratic socialism?
Click to expand...

No, it's explosions, which don't have anything to do with economic systems. And social democrats and democratic socialists use the economic system of these countries as an answer to all the hacks who claim that social democracy and democratic socialism lead to Venezuela.

Why not just admit that you don't know anything about Scandanavian economics, that you were a Bircher over here during the New Deal and that you're only posting this thread to do some red baiting?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
No, it's explosions, which don't have anything to do with economic systems. And social democrats and democratic socialists use the economic system of these countries as an answer to all the hacks who claim that social democracy and democratic socialism lead to Venezuela.

Why not just admit that you don't know anything about Scandanavian economics, that you were a Bircher over here during the New Deal and that you're only posting this thread to do some red baiting?
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I refer you to post #11, where I shoot down your assumptions.
 
Grandpappy said:
I refer you to post #11, where I shoot down your assumptions.
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It's not assumptions. You're trying to claim that there are explosions in Scandanavian countries because they added more socialism to their capitalism than we do. Otherwise SD's and DS's have no role in any of this.
If you wanted to say that you believe that overly liberal and lax immigration policies lead to unintended consequences when forced on a mostly homogenous culture, I might be inclined to see some sense in that.
But that's only because my conservative side agrees with the idea that when you move to another country, it is important for you, the immigrant, to soak up some of the host country's culture and do a bit of mainstreaming and assimilating. You should make an effort to learn a little bit of the dominant language, too.

The EU is too lax in that regard and I daresay that some of the more extreme Left in this country are also a bit too lax.
Let the immigrants in if they can demonstrate the ability to become Americans to some extent. They don't have to utterly sacrifice their own culture but they do need to broaden their horizons as guests, later as legal residents and eventually as citizens.

But none of that has anything to do with an economic system, which is what both SD and DS are.

And clapping for ultranationalist ultra right-wing movements makes me wonder if you remember what happened the last time Europe fell under that spell. You must be a fairly young grandpappy.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
It's not assumptions. You're trying to claim that there are explosions in Scandanavian countries because they added more socialism to their capitalism than we do. Otherwise SD's and DS's have no role in any of this.
If you wanted to say that you believe that overly liberal and lax immigration policies lead to unintended consequences when forced on a mostly homogenous culture, I might be inclined to see some sense in that.
But that's only because my conservative side agrees with the idea that when you move to another country, it is important for you, the immigrant, to soak up some of the host country's culture and do a bit of mainstreaming and assimilating. You should make an effort to learn a little bit of the dominant language, too.

The EU is too lax in that regard and I daresay that some of the more extreme Left in this country are also a bit too lax.
Let the immigrants in if they can demonstrate the ability to become Americans to some extent. They don't have to utterly sacrifice their own culture but they do need to broaden their horizons as guests, later as legal residents and eventually as citizens.

But none of that has anything to do with an economic system, which is what both SD and DS are.

And clapping for ultranationalist ultra right-wing movements makes me wonder if you remember what happened the last time Europe fell under that spell. You must be a fairly young grandpappy.
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You have a conservative side? :shock:...Anyway I clap for common sense. The damn fascists aren't coming back to Europe anytime soon.
 
Grandpappy said:
You have a conservative side? :shock:...Anyway I clap for common sense. The damn fascists aren't coming back to Europe anytime soon.
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Oh, don't pay any attention to that slip-up, it might damage your preconceived notions about liberals. Pretend I never said it. [/sarcasm]
And if you applaud the march of ultra right wing movements in EU and in the USA, and you believe nationalism is preferable to patriotism
(because simple love of country isn't enough?) then you can count on the fascists returning to Europe.
 
It's funny cuz the fascists are alive and well in both Europe and the US. And they're pretty close to gaining power in some European countries last I checked.
 
trouble13 said:
Why not? Other countries criticize us all the time.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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There is a saying in the Bible about this. Something about a log and an eye. Let's partner with Sweden towards a solution, that seems more constructive. None of these issues can be addressed without international collaboration.
 
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